Could GTR's Class 313s temporarily move to Merseyrail?

[315801]

Moderator note: Split from

Merseyrail Class 777

Design-wise the vents in the top of the faux-wood side panels don't seem like the best of ideas as I can see all sorts being stuffed into them. I would be genuinely intrigued to know what those were designed for. If Merseyrail were that obsessed about people putting their feet on the...

www.railforums.co.uk

As a thought here, if the introduction of the 777s is pushed back by however long it is, the southern 313s that are still in working order could be brought up to augment the current fleet until full introduction can be implemented.

This would be handy because even though the 313s were dual voltage units, they no longer have the pantograph on the roof of the middle coach basically rendering them DC only units with exactly the same motors and control equipment ( with the addition of the pantograph controls ) but basically they are practically a 508 unit but with 25Kv capability aswell, remove the pantograph and a 313 is in a sense a 508 so could couple upto a 508 and control it from a 313 cab and vice versa.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a thought here, if the introduction of the 777s is pushed back by however long it is, the southern 313s that are still in working order could be brought up to augment the current fleet until full introduction can be implemented.

This would be handy because even though the 313s were dual voltage units, they no longer have the pantograph on the roof of the middle coach basically rendering them DC only units with exactly the same motors and control equipment ( with the addition of the pantograph controls ) but basically they are practically a 508 unit but with 25Kv capability aswell, remove the pantograph and a 313 is in a sense a 508 so could couple upto a 508 and control it from a 313 cab and vice versa.

Hope that makes sense.

Don't think the pans would be a problem anyway, there's photos online of 313s (with pantograph intact) running on the Kirkby line in the 1980s. Might be a bit tight for the Wirral lines but Northern would be OK.

Unlikely to happen of course, but it's interesting to think about.

 

[Skie]

Not sure 313s still have their tripcocks so couldn’t be used on any Merseyrail services, as unlikely as it would be to happen anyway.

The 777s will be back out soon.

 

[gka472l]

Don't think the pans would be a problem anyway, there's photos online of 313s (with pantograph intact) running on the Kirkby line in the 1980s. Might be a bit tight for the Wirral lines but Northern would be OK.

Unlikely to happen of course, but it's interesting to think about.

Late 70's I think, before the 507's appeared, 3 or 4 units did visit Merseyside briefly, 313013/63 were two of them....

 

[DJH1971]

Late 70's I think, before the 507's appeared, 3 or 4 units did visit Merseyside briefly, 313013/63 were two of them....

Anywhere I can find the pics of the 313's up North?

 

[Lloyds siding]

Anywhere I can find the pics of the 313's up North?

This thread may be helpful

Class 313 On Merseyside!

G'day everyone I have a photograph taken on the 05.11.78 which shows a class 313 at at depot on Merseyside with what looks like a match truck in front of it. Can anyone shed any light on how it came to be in the Liverpool area? I'm guessing here that the match truck was used as a barrier...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[fgwrich]

In theory while they could, I believe the DfT has made their mind up already and want to see them in the bin already.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Moderator note: Split from

Merseyrail Class 777

Design-wise the vents in the top of the faux-wood side panels don't seem like the best of ideas as I can see all sorts being stuffed into them. I would be genuinely intrigued to know what those were designed for. If Merseyrail were that obsessed about people putting their feet on the...

www.railforums.co.uk

As a thought here, if the introduction of the 777s is pushed back by however long it is, the southern 313s that are still in working order could be brought up to augment the current fleet until full introduction can be implemented.

This would be handy because even though the 313s were dual voltage units, they no longer have the pantograph on the roof of the middle coach basically rendering them DC only units with exactly the same motors and control equipment ( with the addition of the pantograph controls ) but basically they are practically a 508 unit but with 25Kv capability aswell, remove the pantograph and a 313 is in a sense a 508 so could couple upto a 508 and control it from a 313 cab and vice versa.

Hope that makes sense.

I’m not sure why Merseyrail would want them, surely if the 777s are pushed back further it would make more sense just to retain their existing fleet longer. Whatever you do it would mean pushing units through further exam/overhaul cycles.

 

[RobShipway]

Moderator note: Split from

Merseyrail Class 777

Design-wise the vents in the top of the faux-wood side panels don't seem like the best of ideas as I can see all sorts being stuffed into them. I would be genuinely intrigued to know what those were designed for. If Merseyrail were that obsessed about people putting their feet on the...

www.railforums.co.uk

As a thought here, if the introduction of the 777s is pushed back by however long it is, the southern 313s that are still in working order could be brought up to augment the current fleet until full introduction can be implemented.

This would be handy because even though the 313s were dual voltage units, they no longer have the pantograph on the roof of the middle coach basically rendering them DC only units with exactly the same motors and control equipment ( with the addition of the pantograph controls ) but basically they are practically a 508 unit but with 25Kv capability aswell, remove the pantograph and a 313 is in a sense a 508 so could couple upto a 508 and control it from a 313 cab and vice versa.

Hope that makes sense.

By the time training has been done on the class 313 units, the issues could be fixed with the class 777 units.

In theory while they could, I believe the DfT has made their mind up already and want to see them in the bin already.

As they are pretty much the oldest stock on the network and of late becoming unreliable units, I have no doubt the public want rid of them too as well as the DFT.

I’m not sure why Merseyrail would want them, surely if the 777s are pushed back further it would make more sense just to retain their existing fleet longer. Whatever you do it would mean pushing units through further exam/overhaul cycles.

I am pretty sure that Merseyrail would not want the class 313 either, especially at the time it would take to re - train their drivers on them for what could end up being just a 1 - 3 month use of them. It would be better for Merseyrail to stick with using the class 507/508 units for a longer period.

 

[KJCross1983]

Nearly all the 313 units on Southern, are nearly broken. I would be surprised if there is a fully working 313 come past May.

 

[PGAT]

The 313s will be phased out and scrapped from the new May timetable just like the 455s were

 

[RobShipway]

Nearly all the 313 units on Southern, are nearly broken. I would be surprised if there is a fully working 313 come past May.

The 313s will be phased out and scrapped from the new May timetable just like the 455s were

Both are also good points as to why Merseyrail, would not want the class 313 units.

 

[DanNCL]

Appreciate it's entirely hypothetical as there's virtually zero chance of the 313s heading to Merseyrail but how much training would actually need to be done for Merseyrail crews to work 313s? The only actual difference between the two as far as operations go from what I can tell is the absence of passenger door controls on the 507/508s. Definitely can't think there'd be enough of a difference to require a full training program.

 

[David Goddard]

In short, why bother?