Varamis Rail Given Operators Licence from ORR

[Meerkat]

Would defeat they whole object and USP

To be cynical it doesn't matter that much on that front.
If it ends up going by road most of the time it still wont stop the customer claiming that they use green electric rail transport.
If they are a big customer they can probably flex their truck movements to cover easily enough yet still get a cheap way to claim they are making an effort to be green.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

To be cynical it doesn't matter that much on that front.
If it ends up going by road most of the time it still wont stop the customer claiming that they use green electric rail transport.
If they are a big customer they can probably flex their truck movements to cover easily enough yet still get a cheap way to claim they are making an effort to be green.

Cynically yes but over the next few years green washing is going to become unacceptable and genuine figures will emerge

 

[zwk500]

Cynically yes but over the next few years green washing is going to become unacceptable and genuine figures will emerge

I hope you're right but I don't share your optimism.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Would defeat they whole object and USP

True, but all companies need a reliable reserve option.

 

[Carlisle]

True, but all companies need a reliable reserve option.

Indeed, realistically total zero emission lorries, rail systems & aircraft are a long way from mainstream service.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Indeed, realistically total zero emission lorries, rail systems & aircraft are a long way from mainstream service

Zero emission rail systems do exist, e.g Nederlanse Spoorwegen, it’s just about investment. ZE Aircraft or lorries yes are not mainstream tech yes

 

[The exile]

Zero emission rail systems do exist, e.g Nederlanse Spoorwegen, it’s just about investment. ZE Aircraft or lorries yes are not mainstream tech yes

Presumably you mean “net zero” - which at least in local terms is not the same.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Presumably you mean “net zero” - which at least in local terms is not the same.

I mean, NS is functionally zero emission since the traction electricity comes from wind power. The only emission will be from the few non-electrified lines not run by them and ancillary maintenance-based emissions.

 

[Carlisle]

I mean, NS is functionally zero emission since the traction electricity comes from wind power. The only emission will be from the few non-electrified lines not run by them and ancillary maintenance-based emissions.

So the only Country’s entire rail system that’d be close to 100% zero emissions is probably Switzerland .

 

[The exile]

So the only Country’s rail system that’d be close to 100% zero emissions is probably Switzerland .

And even then only if all the maintenance of the power system (generation and grid etc) is also zero emission….

 

[Trainbike46]

And even then only if all the maintenance of the power system (generation and grid etc) is also zero emission….

compared to every other mode electrified rail has miniscule emissions, so the swiss rail system is close to 100% zero emissions is true

 

[HSTEd]

I mean, NS is functionally zero emission since the traction electricity comes from wind power. The only emission will be from the few non-electrified lines not run by them and ancillary maintenance-based emissions.

Ultimately the same argument that allows them to claim that traction electricity is from wInd means that Network Rails traction electricity is zero carbon because it comes from Nuclear plant.

The reality is that these are just marketing claims with no basis in reality - the electricity used by the railway is equivalent to the electricity used by everyone else in the country at the time the electricity is used.

 

[Trainbike46]

Ultimately the same argument that allows them to claim that traction electricity is from wInd means that Network Rails traction electricity is zero carbon because it comes from Nuclear plant.

The reality is that these are just marketing claims with no basis in reality - the electricity used by the railway is equivalent to the electricity used by everyone else in the country at the time the electricity is used.

a big difference here is that NS does not run diesel trains - at all, though some smaller operators (Arriva, Keolis) do

The NS energy contract was considered relatively good in terms of actually reducing emissions as it included a requirement to install new wind turbines that produce enough electricity to supply NS, in contrast with the network rail contract which uses existing nuclear power stations. I can provide documentation to back this up if you want (it's in Dutch though).

If you take the country-wide annual average, GB electricity is currently cleaner than NL electricity, as there is a lower coal and a higher renewables and nuclear share in GB

But anyway, this is going rather off-topic.

Back to Varamis rail, have their operations settled back down to something more reliable after the odd cancellations recently?

 

[172007]

Last nights service ran and had a longer dwell time at BHI than normal which could be due to unloading/loading activity.

@veramisbhi is a twitter handle btw. Has mentioned load in one tweet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2023 ==

Awaiting someone to suggest the service runs to Bicester Village rather then BHI; rather like many seem to think Birmingham's main station is Barnes.

 

[Carlisle]

Back to Varamis rail, have their operations settled back down to something more reliable after the odd cancellations recently?

Doesn’t appear so as it’s cancelled tonight.

 

[AlastairFraser]

So the only Country’s rail system that’d be close to 100% zero emissions is probably Switzerland .

Nah, NS runs everything but 10 lines and only 5 or 6 of them are diesel. I'd say 71 percent electric in terms of track, 85 percent of passenger lines which is closeish to 100 percent.
Norway is 64% electrified in terms of track, but passenger track km will be much higher.
Belgium is approx. 84% electrified.
Italy approx 79%.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2023 ==

Last nights service ran and had a longer dwell time at BHI than normal which could be due to unloading/loading activity.

@veramisbhi is a twitter handle btw. Has mentioned load in one tweet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2023 ==

Awaiting someone to suggest the service runs to Bicester Village rather then BHI; rather like many seem to think Birmingham's main station is Barnes.

It's good to hear it's running at least some of the time though and clients still have the confidence to use it.

 

[172007]

Last night made it to Portobello Jct Wolverhampton and then returned to Mossend 10 mins later. Strange.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2023 ==

Turned at Preston tonight and back to Mossend within 10 mins.

 

[Carlisle]

Last night made it to Portobello Jct Wolverhampton and then returned to Mossend 10 mins later. Strange.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2023 ==

Turned at Preston tonight and back to Mossend within 10 mins.

Yes I noticed that, seems odd, are they getting told in advance there’s nothing to pick up at Birmingham International & just turning round at a convenient location ?

 

[172007]

Good theory. I wonder wether they have proved the service, reliability and its a case of they run until they know there is nothing to collect as their future customers do use them but not great volumes and hit n miss but it will all kick off properly after the Carstairs blockade.

 

[jagardner1984]

Doubtless the moment has passed for Eurocentral to be planned in a way that isn’t entirely Lorry / motorway network centric. Yet again.

So much of the cost, and therefore decreased margins for Varamis, is the additional handling of goods at one or both ends. Which is why they operate in such a lean manner to and from RDCs and trunk connections between them.

So for the next time, when planning a major business park within (literally) metres of a major railway, is it so much to ask that they be aligned so one face of the building is effectively a platform, to a single electrified line, so that services like Varamis can effectively deliver point to point, like their competitors (the lorries) do extremely and effectively many many times a night. Roll cages on and off, pallet trucks on - none of this seems impossible.

There seems a certain undercurrent of being unsurprised by the potential failure of this operator, and others before it.

When the few hundred metres surrounding Mossend yard includes:

Amazon
DPD
UPS
Lidl
GXO Logistics
Evri
Gist
Warburtons
Morrisons
DX Express
Wincanton

I would assume one or more of the above are Varamis customers (but with a bunch of faff at either end to fill and unload lorries a few hundred metres away)

It seems not impossible that with some government intervention on a rail connection, and a bit of co-ordination between them, that a small EMU might have a bit of traffic to/from the West Midlands nightly ?

Or maybe we just keep waiting for someone to make a big enough battery for a lorry (and roll out tens of thousands of them)

You wonder what will be needed to accelerate the glacial pace of progress on rail freight.

 

[zwk500]

So for the next time, when planning a major business park within (literally) metres of a major railway, is it so much to ask that they be aligned so one face of the building is effectively a platform, to a single electrified line, so that services like Varamis can effectively deliver point to point, like their competitors (the lorries) do extremely and effectively many many times a night. Roll cages on and off, pallet trucks on - none of this seems impossible.

Perfectly possible - Daventry for example has this, and IIRC the new Northampton Gateway will as well. However Parcels traffic is small fry for the railway and the cost of rebuilding a business park doesn't repay the costs.

 

[jagardner1984]

Perfectly possible - Daventry for example has this, and IIRC the new Northampton Gateway will as well. However Parcels traffic is small fry for the railway and the cost of rebuilding a business park doesn't repay the costs.

Indeed - so the question of policy makers must be why even more Tin shed+Lorry park planning was permitted when a better option is literally …. there

I’d suggest there is still sufficient space for a platform from which you could get a forklift to directly into some, if not all of these units, but doubtless the will, and imagination, has gone …

 

[zwk500]

Indeed - so the question of policy makers must be why even more Tin shed+Lorry park planning was permitted when a better option is literally …. there

I’d suggest there is still sufficient space for a platform from which you could get a forklift to directly into some, if not all of these units, but doubtless the will, and imagination, has gone …

Given that at least one warehouse of that business park appears to have been formerly rail-connected, that better question is whether rail is actually the better option or not.

As it happens, to me that business park looks perfect for a trial of autonomous electric vehicles to shuttle to the loading terminal.

 

[jagardner1984]

Given that at least one warehouse of that business park appears to have been formerly rail-connected, that better question is whether rail is actually the better option or not.

As it happens, to me that business park looks perfect for a trial of autonomous electric vehicles to shuttle to the loading terminal.

For sure.

If I was trying to apply any kind of logic to the layout of such a site, I might suggest a line of potential rail based customers (couriers) in a logical alignment perhaps near the … railway ?

Having had the pleasure of that business park for collecting parcels from various disappointing couriers, I can reassure you the sweeping curves and multiple roundabout layout are second to none, if entirely counterproductive to any kind of green transit links they have helpfully ignored (this site is a few years old, before we give them the excuse of time).

All joking aside, there obviously needs to be greater intervention from government / planning bodies to site facilities in a place the railway can get to easily / economically / directly (adding a siding/bay platform in some accessible location for example) if said bodies are in any way serious about these companies using rail for at least some of their journeys. When some of them are transporting a 1kg parcel to the other end of the country for a couple of quid …. Margins are slender at best.

 

[zwk500]

Margins are slender at best.

And this gets back to the point - Rail is capital-heavy. When there is big bulk to move, it is worth the capital expenditure but to set up rail services requires long-term investment that companies operating on a thin margin cannot afford.

Trucks are scaleable, affordable, available and flexible on short term (days/weeks notice) timescales. Rail is generally fixed lengths, very expensive, hard to get paths for and operates on Weeks/Months notice at best, and years for major changes.
I've compared a bus service to a train service on reopening threads to the difference between repainting a wall and building an extension. It's not a direct parallel here but the general thrust still holds true.

 

[jagardner1984]

And this gets back to the point - Rail is capital-heavy. When there is big bulk to move, it is worth the capital expenditure but to set up rail services requires long-term investment that companies operating on a thin margin cannot afford.

Trucks are scaleable, affordable, available and flexible on short term (days/weeks notice) timescales. Rail is generally fixed lengths, very expensive, hard to get paths for and operates on Weeks/Months notice at best, and years for major changes.
I've compared a bus service to a train service on reopening threads to the difference between repainting a wall and building an extension. It's not a direct parallel here but the general thrust still holds true.

100%. So if people are serious about wanting to take trucks off the roads, then bodies (eg the government) with larger, long term ambitions than the individual, shareholder driven and margin led companies needs to step in and make it financially essential to do so.

 

[uww11x]

Yes I noticed that, seems odd, are they getting told in advance there’s nothing to pick up at Birmingham International & just turning round at a convenient location ?

Didn't plan for the Possessions!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Is there any (known) reason why the Scottish Government, which is widely represented as being far more pro-rail than Westminster on these forums, didn’t do more to ensure that Eurocentral was more Rail orientated?

The Blackford Highland Spring terminal has been the poster child for rail freight in Scotland throughout its lengthy gestation period. But Eurocentral is surely a far bigger opportunity (not only for Varamis).

 

[The Planner]

Didn't plan for the Possessions!

Eh? Are you saying they didnt take into account a section 5 possession? It should have been picked up in the offer and rejected?

 

[ayubdaud]

Eh? Are you saying they didnt take into account a section 5 possession? It should have been picked up in the offer and rejected?

The one the other week when Varamis were complaining on Twitter that BHI was occupied - the outbound 1S04 was actually CA'd due to being foul of multiple possessions (as well as being occupied). It seems Varamis VSTP all their schedules so maybe they ignore what is offered/rejected.