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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

reddragon

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All those things had a cost, for example buying of a gas boiler, fitting seatbelts, purchasing of safety equipment, etc.

Of course there's options for most travel within the UK and many of those are likely (when considered as a whole) not to be too different from car ownership, although they may have limitations.

However before I go further this needs covering:



About 85% of the UK live with urban areas (a settlement of over 10,000 people) with probably quite a lot of the rest living in settlements of between 5,000 and 10,000 (for example you'd need 3 villages of 2,000 people to match that of one village of 6,000, whilst you'd need 12 villages of 500 to get to the same number, by the time you're down to hamlets of less than 50 people you'd need over 120 to get to the same number of people).

As such, whilst there's a LOT of the country which isn't urban there's very few people who live there.

As such why is it that there's currently more cars than there are people who pay income tax? Given that there's a good chance that many could replace their car with an e-bike for the majority of their day to day travel. Being urbanites out should be possible for there to be car clubs provided to cover most of the rest which isn't viable by public transport.

Especially given there's about 50% of the population who now have the ability to do hybrid working, so getting to and from work isn't an every day issue.

Whilst public transport is expensive on a PAYG basis, it's often not if you can use season tickets of some variety when compared to the total annual cost of car ownership (the average of which is over £3,000, with few being able to achieve it for much under £2,000).

That's before you consider other costs, such as owning a driveway and/or a garage (the latter is often one of the largest indoor single spaces/rooms that people have) and how little actual benefit people get from it.

Yes there's a need for the poor and those in rural areas, however cars aren't the right answer.

The problem is, too many children have been brought up getting driven to school, which means as an adult their default is to then own a car and drive. To give one example a child was picked up by a friend's parent, the first question which was asked was "where's the car?" The plan was walk then the 1,200m to their home, as that's not an unreasonable distance for a child to be able to walk (the other children were going to be walking further as they then had to walk back to their home).

It wasn't raining or cold, there was no need to be somewhere at a given time, so it was fairly reasonable to walk it.

Now tell me that when that child grows up that they are not likely to default to driving for almost every trip even though walking may be a suitable option for at least some of those trips. (Yes it may be that they surprise me, however the likelihood is that I won't be surprised).

The reason being is that once you've taught a child something it's then hard to unteach the adult that they become. Even in a forum which is fairly pro rail, making the suggestion that people use their car less doesn't go down well (few because they are also not using their car very much).

Cars are a useful tool, however just because they are useful doesn't mean that they should be the only way people get around. The old adjudge that every problem looks like a nail when you own a hammer springs to mind. In that every trip looks like it needs to be driven when you have paid a lot of upfront costs to own a car and the extra for (almost) just the extra petrol isn't that much so why bother walking?

EV's are (realistically) no better or worse for a lot of people than ICE's (other than improved air quality) they just have different advantages and different disadvantages and so it's a case of how much will they impact you (probably less than many fear - in that on average 8 trips a year are over 50 miles), the answer is likely to be hardly at all.

As to the extra cost of EV's over ICE's if 20 years ago were told that all new cars were to be required by law to have AC installed there would be lots of fuss about only high end cars have it, or that those with it are more expensive than those without it and so many of the complaints about such a rule would be very similar to the ban on new ICE vehicles. However we are now at the point where AC is fairly hard to find not installed in a car, even cars which had it and it's failed, and yet more people own more cars than they ever did in the past.

I think I've probably said enough things to upset quite a lot of people (blaming their parents for making them lazy and unable to walk when they could do, just for starters - if that's how you choose to read what I've said).
Totally agree with you!

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Firstly I've never read the Daily Mail in my life. It wasn't a clever jibe earlier and it still isn't.
Secondly, you're talking new car prices- for those who can only ever afford second or third-hand cars there simply aren't any electric vehicles available in their price range yet.
Thirdly, none of the EVs on the road today have been around that long, so at best that's an estimate and presumably comes from the manufacturers. Car makers have never lied or embellished about the performance or economy of their vehicles before, so why would they start now?

Again, I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong and find that an EV is both viable and affordable for my current living arrangements. But so far I'm simply not buying the hype. A relative who is VERY environmentally minded got a Mercedes-Benz EV 10 months ago, subsidised by her employer. Even with her best intentions it hasn't lived up to the promises of the manufacturer, and she's had to hire an ICE vehicle for work trips several times. Perhaps she's just been unlucky, but when someone with the best intentions finds they fall short, it shows there's still room for improvement.
A Mercedes is far from a cheap option, even under the tax free company schemes! With none under £50k and range over 200 miles, it would take a real technophobe to be unable to use it for work!
 
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61653 HTAFC

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I suggest that you read about British history, enslaving, slaughtering & colonising the planet and today it's heavily fossil funded greed that kills & harms so many more than the Chinese do!
That tells me all I need to know. We clearly aren't going to agree on much, and I'd suggest it's you who needs to read up on British history. Not to entirely excuse colonialism in its entirety here, but remind me which of the European powers was the first to outlaw the slave trade (admittedly not before time). It's possible to recognise the wrongs of history without making a big show of self-flaggelation, and without being an apologist for the appalling conduct of the Chinese Communist Party.

Clearly we're done here.
 

reddragon

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That tells me all I need to know. We clearly aren't going to agree on much, and I'd suggest it's you who needs to read up on British history. Not to entirely excuse colonialism in its entirety here, but remind me which of the European powers was the first to outlaw the slave trade (admittedly not before time). It's possible to recognise the wrongs of history without making a big show of self-flaggelation, and without being an apologist for the appalling conduct of the Chinese Communist Party.

Clearly we're done here.
I won't buy Chinese because of their human rights issues? I agree they exist but will not pick out 1 product due to it to ban! Surely its all or nothing not selective?

I could ban German products due to WW2? or French Products due to Napoleon? Scandinavian due to the Vikings? Where do you stop?

The biggest single cause of harm today is caused by big oil, something I can boycott. The UK chose to rely on China, I don't agree with it but have to accept this.
 

AM9

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That's a hell of a strawman, and I'm not sure I like what you seem to be trying to imply. Please elaborate...

For avoidance of doubt, my objection to Chinese-built products (particularly ones that have safety implications) are based on a distrust of that country's government/ideology and their willingness to use underhand tactics to score points against the West. Their human rights record leaves a lot to be desired too.

Not that it's easy to avoid Chinese-made products of course!
Then you can't afford to buy almost any item manufactured. Do you have a TV, Microwave Oven, Mobile telephone, Computer? all of those are very difficult to buy if you refuse to accept any trade with China. Even that great champion of the UK (not) (Sir apparently) Dyson selsl products laden with chines manufactured components and even subassemblies.
 

GLC

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Not in so many words, as that would be electoral suicide... but unless (a) prices of new EVs drops a fair bit more; or (b) battery tech evolves to a level where the useful lifetime of a battery is 10-12 years rather than the 5-6 at present, then those whose only viable method of car ownership is "bangernomics" will no longer have that option.
That also leaves aside the secure charging issue. It's all well and good to say posh places like Brighton and Kensington have been installing loads of rapid chargers, in Dewsbury and Batley there's no sign of anything like that from the local council, and if there was I wouldn't trust the locals to not tamper with it just for "s***s and giggles". I'm going to hazard a guess that those Brighton chargers aren't in places like Moulsecomb where the dreaded poors live.
My EV (BMW i3) is a 2013 design, built in 2016, and has a 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the traction battery. Currently, after 7 years and 60k miles, my specific car is sitting at about 87% health, which is to say, it has a capacity 87% of the as new capacity. I suspect ones being built today, with more advanced chemistry and battery management software, will far exceed the battery in my little i3.

All Stellantis Group manufacturers (Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall etc) offer an identical battery warranty to BMW, despite not being seen as premium marques. Older Renault Zoes were warrantied also for 8 years/100k miles a stated minimum health of 66% by year 6, whereas new Zoe are now warrantied for 8 years/100k miles to 70% health. The current Nissan Leaf also has the same warranty terms.

Given that several manufacturers, both premium and regular, have previously, and now continue to, assert their EV batteries will last for at least 8 years in a usable state, I'm not sure why you think that EV batteries no longer have a useful life after 5-6 years, given the manufacturers are betting their own money on this not being true?

And as far charger availability, I live in Glasgow. Not a terrible city, but not one that is a sparkling reputation. And the car was bought second hand, when it was already 6 years old, using a loan scheme from the Scottish Government.
 

Bald Rick

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or (b) battery tech evolves to a level where the useful lifetime of a battery is 10-12 years rather than the 5-6 at present, then those whose only viable method of car ownership is "bangernomics" will no longer have that option.

Not sure where you get this misconception from. There’s loads of 8-9 year Teslas out there for sale, all with good batteries.

By the way- I'd like nothing more than to be entirely wrong about my fears for the future of car ownership. If it turns out that in ten years time all these issues have been solved and even low income people are able to get affordable and reliable electric cars, and charge them securely I'll be over the moon.

Good. In which case, try to read up about the subject a bit, rather than assuming things about battery life etc that are plainly wrong. You’ll be pleasantly surprised!

it’s only really the last 3 years that the EV market has taken off, and even then it’s mostly premium marques or higher spec versions of middling marques. The cheap stuff is only just coming through now. It will be another 5-7 years or so before the ‘bangernomics’ you mention become a reality, ie 8-10 year old cars on the market at low single digit k prices. Bear in mind a 10 year old Golf with 100k on the clock is going to cost at least £3k now. A similar EV in 10 years time might be a bit more expensive, but no chance of problems with the engine, exhaust, clutch, cooling system, gearbox, alternator, starter motor, etc etc., and likely to last longer.
 

skyhigh

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(b) battery tech evolves to a level where the useful lifetime of a battery is 10-12 years rather than the 5-6 at present
Do you actually read replies to your posts? You posted the same thing yesterday and was corrected by myself and others.

The useful lifetime of an EV battery is already well in excess of 5-6 years otherwise manufacturers wouldn't be guaranteeing them for 8 years.

You are clearly posting factually incorrect nonsense, as even a simple search would show.

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It will be another 5-7 years or so before the ‘bangernomics’ you mention become a reality, ie 8-10 year old cars on the market at low single digit k prices. Bear in mind a 10 year old Golf with 100k on the clock is going to cost at least £3k now. A similar EV in 10 years time might be a bit more expensive, but no chance of problems with the engine, exhaust, clutch, cooling system, gearbox, alternator, starter motor, etc etc., and likely to last longer.
For what it's worth, before Covid and car prices took off I bought a battery-owned Zoe at around 4 years old for £7.5k. Sure, the range wasn't fantastic but for a city or town car it was great, and suited me fine as I'd normally prefer to get the train longer distances.

As current cars age the range of second hand vehicles available in a 'budget range' will only increase and as you say, almost certainly have lower ongoing costs than a petrol alternative.
 
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Bald Rick

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For what it's worth, before Covid and car prices took off I bought a battery-owned Zoe at around 4 years old for £7.5k.

Good price that! You’re looking at £12k now for similar. But when you can lease new for £275/month…
 

E27007

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How many EV batteries have done a proven million miles?
In round figures, 1 million miles @ 200 miles per charge / discharge cycles is 5000 cycles., 1 million miles is around a factor of 7 to 10 times the life mileage of a typical IC car from manufacture to scrapping.

I'm struggling to reconcile the thought of battery makers have over-engineered their battery packs to give the equivalent of 75 to 100 years of service
 

jon0844

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The point is batteries don't just die after a set time. They degrade.

Most parts on an ICE vehicle do fail and need repairing or replacing.

Batteries can of course be replaced too.

Most cars do around 5k miles per year, so for every taxi or van driver that canes their vehicle, there will be 5 or 10 year old models with batteries that are still almost new - and perhaps due to an accident the car itself is written off and the battery transferable.

And then there's the re-use for home battery storage to consider.
 

skyhigh

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Batteries can of course be replaced too.
Not only that, they can be repaired fairly easily. If it's just a dud cell and the rest are fine the battery pack can be dropped and the cell changed relatively cheaply.
 

bspahh

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Not only that, they can be repaired fairly easily. If it's just a dud cell and the rest are fine the battery pack can be dropped and the cell changed relatively cheaply.
As a potential purchaser of an electric car, I would feel a lot more reassured about buying a car, if there weren't just guarantees for the condition of the battery for a few years, but information about how the battery, charging hardware and software can be accessed, maintained and updated in the long term.
 

reddragon

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I wouldn’t touch one of those - principally because of what you’ve written about them!
Yes, but they still command high prices for a 12 yo car!

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In round figures, 1 million miles @ 200 miles per charge / discharge cycles is 5000 cycles., 1 million miles is around a factor of 7 to 10 times the life mileage of a typical IC car from manufacture to scrapping.

I'm struggling to reconcile the thought of battery makers have over-engineered their battery packs to give the equivalent of 75 to 100 years of service
2 things: -

1 - Battery manufacturers are so scared of early failure they are currently 'over' designed. As time passes they will hone their skills.
2 - Battery second lives are valuable and from the beginning manufacturers knew this and were in the market for reuses as grid storage. This has only failed as old batteries are more valuable in classic conversions.
 

trebor79

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Not only that, they can be repaired fairly easily. If it's just a dud cell and the rest are fine the battery pack can be dropped and the cell changed relatively cheaply.

As a potential purchaser of an electric car, I would feel a lot more reassured about buying a car, if there weren't just guarantees for the condition of the battery for a few years, but information about how the battery, charging hardware and software can be accessed, maintained and updated in the long term.
Indeed. My understanding at present is that battery repair in the manner described is still rather a niche service and is non-trivial. Although the cell(s) may only cost a few pounds, there is an immense amount of dismantling to do and then the battery needs to be properly sealed up again. I watched a video of a Tesla Model 3 battery teardown. Aside from several hundred bolts to unscrew, there was mastic applied to lots of panels and a sealed plastic membrane that had to be cut to get to the cells.
I think we may reach a point where your local garage can fit a reconditioned battery, and yours goes off to a specialist facility who will repair and send back out as a reconditioned battery.
There are also issues with cell balancing etc when you insert new cells in a used battery pack - akin to mixing used and new AA batteries in kids toys leading to leakage (for exactly the same reason, cell imbalance). I know of one company that offered battery repair which has now stopped doing so because they were seeing a lot of failures and other problems post repair.

That said, I took delivery of a new EV in the autumn and we are very happy with it, and currently looking for a second to replace the other ICE car.
 

reddragon

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As a potential purchaser of an electric car, I would feel a lot more reassured about buying a car, if there weren't just guarantees for the condition of the battery for a few years, but information about how the battery, charging hardware and software can be accessed, maintained and updated in the long term.
Go to the Fully Charged show in Farnborough or Harrogate in 2 months and ask!
 

AM9

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Indeed. My understanding at present is that battery repair in the manner described is still rather a niche service and is non-trivial. Although the cell(s) may only cost a few pounds, there is an immense amount of dismantling to do and then the battery needs to be properly sealed up again. I watched a video of a Tesla Model 3 battery teardown. Aside from several hundred bolts to unscrew, there was mastic applied to lots of panels and a sealed plastic membrane that had to be cut to get to the cells.
I think we may reach a point where your local garage can fit a reconditioned battery, and yours goes off to a specialist facility who will repair and send back out as a reconditioned battery.
There are also issues with cell balancing etc when you insert new cells in a used battery pack - akin to mixing used and new AA batteries in kids toys leading to leakage (for exactly the same reason, cell imbalance). I know of one company that offered battery repair which has now stopped doing so because they were seeing a lot of failures and other problems post repair.

That said, I took delivery of a new EV in the autumn and we are very happy with it, and currently looking for a second to replace the other ICE car.
I think that the battery configuration in an EV is a bit better engineered than 4 type AA alkaline cells in series in a toy that costs less than £5 to manufacture. For a start, there are layers of diagnostics supporting the applications available to owners to get an assessment of their battery health. These usually only give a single figure which is all a lay user needs. Raw diagnostic data gives the specialist centres the ability to discriminate between a single failed cell, a generally degraded battery or even a mismatch of cells (although the chemistry gives certain voltages and internal resistances, there is a production spread that might just give an occasional unequal combination).
Once the maintenance gets beyond the 'OEM replacing the whole thing' practice, the methods of gaining access and making good will become second nature to the trade. Just look how windscreens that on modern cars are now part of their structure can be replaced roadside if necessary. Cars that are more difficult to mantain batteries on will attract the attention of buyers, particularly fleet buyers.
 

Energy

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I think that the battery configuration in an EV is a bit better engineered than 4 type AA alkaline cells in series in a toy that costs less than £5 to manufacture. For a start, there are layers of diagnostics supporting the applications available to owners to get an assessment of their battery health. These usually only give a single figure which is all a lay user needs. Raw diagnostic data gives the specialist centres the ability to discriminate between a single failed cell, a generally degraded battery or even a mismatch of cells (although the chemistry gives certain voltages and internal resistances, there is a production spread that might just give an occasional unequal combination).
Once the maintenance gets beyond the 'OEM replacing the whole thing' practice, the methods of gaining access and making good will become second nature to the trade. Just look how windscreens that on modern cars are now part of their structure can be replaced roadside if necessary. Cars that are more difficult to mantain batteries on will attract the attention of buyers, particularly fleet buyers.
It depends on the car but many you can swap the batteries with a spot welder if you know which cell is bad.
 

AM9

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It depends on the car but many you can swap the batteries with a spot welder if you know which cell is bad.
Not the sort of thing an owner is likely to undertake but there will be a healthy second level of battery maintenance operators by the time EVs are commonplace on the roads.
 

trebor79

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I think that the battery configuration in an EV is a bit better engineered than 4 type AA alkaline cells in series in a toy that costs less than £5 to manufacture. For a start, there are layers of diagnostics supporting the applications available to owners to get an assessment of their battery health. These usually only give a single figure which is all a lay user needs. Raw diagnostic data gives the specialist centres the ability to discriminate between a single failed cell, a generally degraded battery or even a mismatch of cells (although the chemistry gives certain voltages and internal resistances, there is a production spread that might just give an occasional unequal combination).
Once the maintenance gets beyond the 'OEM replacing the whole thing' practice, the methods of gaining access and making good will become second nature to the trade. Just look how windscreens that on modern cars are now part of their structure can be replaced roadside if necessary. Cars that are more difficult to mantain batteries on will attract the attention of buyers, particularly fleet buyers.
Yes I know a car battery is better engineered than a toy - I was simply illustrating that there are fundamental issues that mean it's not as simple as just popping a couple of new cells into a used battery.
Not the sort of thing an owner is likely to undertake but there will be a healthy second level of battery maintenance operators by the time EVs are commonplace on the roads.
If anything, it's going the other way at the moment with MG, BMW and Mercedes bring out cars with ultra-thin battery packs just a few cm thick, that form an integral part of the vehicle structure.
 

RailWonderer

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A similar EV in 10 years time might be a bit more expensive, but no chance of problems with the engine, exhaust, clutch, cooling system, gearbox, alternator, starter motor, etc etc., and likely to last longer.
A slightly more expensive EV does make sense when you think of all those maintenance savings. With an ICE car you have to check the service book and budget for all that.
 

bspahh

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I think that the battery configuration in an EV is a bit better engineered than 4 type AA alkaline cells in series in a toy that costs less than £5 to manufacture. For a start, there are layers of diagnostics supporting the applications available to owners to get an assessment of their battery health. These usually only give a single figure which is all a lay user needs. Raw diagnostic data gives the specialist centres the ability to discriminate between a single failed cell, a generally degraded battery or even a mismatch of cells (although the chemistry gives certain voltages and internal resistances, there is a production spread that might just give an occasional unequal combination).
Once the maintenance gets beyond the 'OEM replacing the whole thing' practice, the methods of gaining access and making good will become second nature to the trade. Just look how windscreens that on modern cars are now part of their structure can be replaced roadside if necessary. Cars that are more difficult to mantain batteries on will attract the attention of buyers, particularly fleet buyers.
Engineering is a balancing act, between performance, reliability, ease of manufacture. I would like a car where long term maintenance is one of the factors which has been given to the engineers to optimise.

Fleet buyers that sell cars on when they are 3 years old not are not particularly focused on problems that occur after 10 years.

With mobile phones, there some where the battery and screen are glued in place, and a Fairphone where there is a 5 year guarantee, spare parts at a reasonable cost which can be fitted with basic tools. I'd like to see an equivalent of that for an electric car. I know there are electric cars with a 5 or 7 year guarantees, but I expect a car to last longer than a mobile phone.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I won't buy Chinese because of their human rights issues? I agree they exist but will not pick out 1 product due to it to ban! Surely its all or nothing not selective?

I could ban German products due to WW2? or French Products due to Napoleon? Scandinavian due to the Vikings? Where do you stop?

The biggest single cause of harm today is caused by big oil, something I can boycott. The UK chose to rely on China, I don't agree with it but have to accept this.
I'm not the one who tried to draw an equivalence between things that happened 200, 1200 or 80 years ago and things that are happening right now.
 

jon0844

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Go to the Fully Charged show in Farnborough or Harrogate in 2 months and ask!

Also, some of these EV-specialist sites have their own forums (and there are probably many more) that discuss all of these things. I expect in time many more traditional 'petrolhead' like forums will acknowledge EVs more and more as time goes on.

We currently have a nation of car mechanics that can either moan about losing their income as there will be less ICE vehicles to maintain, to looking forward to learn how to work on things like motors, batteries, battery management systems, and other electronic systems and sensors.

I can see more people coming up with third-party batteries that mean you don't need to hack an existing battery or reverse engineer it, and there are already some firms I've seen on YouTube that do not only battery conversions for old ICE cars, but also for early generation EVs like the Leaf.

It's naive to think that when EVs come along, nobody will be able to work on them and they'll just 'die' after a certain time. Sure, the industry is going to try and make it hard to work on cars (just as they do on modern high-spec ICE vehicles) but that's for Governments to regulate. I suspect the EU will continue with right to repair rules to force manufacturers to make it possible to do this - although whether the UK or US does remains to be seen.

Sure there's a lot of knowledge needed to do this sort of thing, but those are going to be well-paid jobs of tomorrow and what people should be considering learning today if at school/Uni.

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With mobile phones, there some where the battery and screen are glued in place, and a Fairphone where there is a 5 year guarantee, spare parts at a reasonable cost which can be fitted with basic tools. I'd like to see an equivalent of that for an electric car. I know there are electric cars with a 5 or 7 year guarantees, but I expect a car to last longer than a mobile phone.

While I know there are only so many different types of battery cell, the method of connecting them and designing the chassis is very much dependent on individual manufacturer platforms. Perhaps there might be a way to standardise some of the construction processes to allow easier maintenance of batteries - and some level of interoperability between cars.

That could really benefit older vehicles in the future, where a modular battery design might make it possible to use a battery from a different car. Ideally, any car but at the very least a car using the same platform.
 

Mawkie

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As a potential purchaser of an electric car, I would feel a lot more reassured about buying a car, if there weren't just guarantees for the condition of the battery for a few years, but information about how the battery, charging hardware and software can be accessed, maintained and updated in the long term.
Personally, I'm not worried about the batteries, but software on the other hand... I think failures of software, or non-support after x amount of years is concerning.

It would be difficult to imagine the app I use today to control charging on a vehicle would still be supported in any meaningful way in 10 or 15 years. Or could it be that charge points lose the ability to 'talk' to cars after a certain amount of years due to software changes and new protocols?

Are these things already known about and being looked into? I could do with reassurance.
 

trebor79

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Personally, I'm not worried about the batteries, but software on the other hand... I think failures of software, or non-support after x amount of years is concerning.

It would be difficult to imagine the app I use today to control charging on a vehicle would still be supported in any meaningful way in 10 or 15 years. Or could it be that charge points lose the ability to 'talk' to cars after a certain amount of years due to software changes and new protocols?

Are these things already known about and being looked into? I could do with reassurance.
There's loads of software in ICE cars which has the same theoretical issue.
As for charge points communicating with the car, that's all laid down in standards and there's zero chance your car will suddenly be unable to charge.
 

Mawkie

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There's loads of software in ICE cars which has the same theoretical issue.
As for charge points communicating with the car, that's all laid down in standards and there's zero chance your car will suddenly be unable to charge.
Kia have recently been having some issues with their online systems and the 'Kia Connect' service. As I understood it, the (electric) car is not communicating with the app which meant that some people have been plugging in at home and haven't been able to set the car to accept a charge at the times that suit their favoured tariff (Octopus flex maybe?)

I know these are teething problems and I'm not anti electric cars, but it's these kinds of features that manufacturers need to make work 100% of the time for as long as the car is in existence.
 

Roast Veg

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It would be difficult to imagine the app I use today to control charging on a vehicle would still be supported in any meaningful way in 10 or 15 years. Or could it be that charge points lose the ability to 'talk' to cars after a certain amount of years due to software changes and new protocols?

Are these things already known about and being looked into? I could do with reassurance.
There's no new protocol on the horizon after ISO15118-20 except Megawatt Charging for fleets, so don't worry about car/charger compatibility. Similarly the protocol used to control charging stations via the internet is standardising on OCPP.

Local app support is another ball game though. Don't expect the current iterations of those to work for longer than a few years.
 

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