Remaining Effects of Covid

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if this is more of a Southern thing because I can only think of one pub I frequent that doesn't take cash.

I think the progress away from cash is certainly more visible in the South East. Proffer cash in central London, for instance, and unless you're obviously a tourist you get a very funny look even if it is then accepted, and often it won't be. In the City, cash acceptance is pretty much no longer a thing.

 

[MikeWM]

To somewhat bring the conversation back slightly to covid, my last word (for now at least) on the cash debate would be the report that has just been released on the way the government handled the truckers' protest last year over Canada's covid measures, and the comments from the Canadian goverment on the report (which of course says that everything the government did was just fine), in particular these comments on freezing protestors' bank accounts:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?52614...holds-news-conference-trucker-protests-report

The freezing of finanical assets was deemed appropriate and effective...
...
It was a powerful tool to discourage participation and to incentivize protestors to leave. I am satisfied that it played a meaningful role in shrinking the footprint of the protest.

(bold mine)

In a society without a cash alternative, it will be much easier for a government to do things like this whenever you're not 'behaving' in the way they want, and also it will be much more effective more quickly. And if it is easy for them to do and makes life easier for them and harder for anyone opposed to them, you can bet they will do it.

If somehow you're 100% confident you may never want to protest against any government measure for the rest of your life, that may be an argument to carry on embracing the idea of a cashless economy (or as perhaps it could more accurately be called, a 'government permission required' economy). But if you'd like to keep that option even slightly open (and still be allowed to buy food and medicine and similar things), now may be a good time to assert that you'd like to keep a cash option for transactions. If nothing else, don't the actions of governments around the world over the last three years give you at least some pause for thought, before enthusiastically passing over more control to them to micro-manage every little detail of your life for evermore?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Is the card v cash thing really an effect of COVID? Its been a discussion point for years, and whilst yes COVID has probably accelerated it, many places had gone there beforehand (even outside of London) and the overall trend of increasing card (mainly contactless) usage and decreasing cash usage was with us well before March 2020!

 

[Bald Rick]

To somewhat bring the conversation back slightly to covid, my last word (for now at least) on the cash debate would be the report that has just been released on the way the government handled the truckers' protest last year over Canada's covid measures, and the comments from the Canadian goverment on the report (which of course says that everything the government did was just fine), in particular these comments on freezing protestors' bank accounts:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?52614...holds-news-conference-trucker-protests-report

(bold mine)

In a society without a cash alternative, it will be much easier for a government to do things like this whenever you're not 'behaving' in the way they want, and also it will be much more effective more quickly. And if it is easy for them to do and makes life easier for them and harder for anyone opposed to them, you can bet they will do it.

If somehow you're 100% confident you may never want to protest against any government measure for the rest of your life, that may be an argument to carry on embracing the idea of a cashless economy (or as perhaps it could more accurately be called, a 'government permission required' economy). But if you'd like to keep that option even slightly open (and still be allowed to buy food and medicine and similar things), now may be a good time to assert that you'd like to keep a cash option for transactions. If nothing else, don't the actions of governments around the world over the last three years give you at least some pause for thought, before enthusiastically passing over more control to them to micro-manage every little detail of your life for evermore?

Frankly, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

[Crossover]

In my experience, it is much harder to juggle a phone and get it onto the right app to show the right thing, than it is to produce a small piece of plastic from your wallet.

I have recently set up contactless payments on my phone. I’m on Apple and find it incredibly easy and wondering why I didn’t do it sooner. Double tap the lock button, look at the phone (Face ID), tap to pay. No circus acting required

 

[Bletchleyite]

Frankly, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

To those who do think they'd use cash if the Government turned on them, do you keep a grand or two under the mattress? As if the Government would block your debit card it'd also block withdrawals from your bank account.

 

[Bantamzen]

To somewhat bring the conversation back slightly to covid, my last word (for now at least) on the cash debate would be the report that has just been released on the way the government handled the truckers' protest last year over Canada's covid measures, and the comments from the Canadian goverment on the report (which of course says that everything the government did was just fine), in particular these comments on freezing protestors' bank accounts:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?52614...holds-news-conference-trucker-protests-report

(bold mine)

In a society without a cash alternative, it will be much easier for a government to do things like this whenever you're not 'behaving' in the way they want, and also it will be much more effective more quickly. And if it is easy for them to do and makes life easier for them and harder for anyone opposed to them, you can bet they will do it.

If somehow you're 100% confident you may never want to protest against any government measure for the rest of your life, that may be an argument to carry on embracing the idea of a cashless economy (or as perhaps it could more accurately be called, a 'government permission required' economy). But if you'd like to keep that option even slightly open (and still be allowed to buy food and medicine and similar things), now may be a good time to assert that you'd like to keep a cash option for transactions. If nothing else, don't the actions of governments around the world over the last three years give you at least some pause for thought, before enthusiastically passing over more control to them to micro-manage every little detail of your life for evermore?

Frankly, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

Honestly it should. Whilst I don't believe that there is any agenda involved in a move towards a cashless society, it does still come with risks. And a government going rogue and freezing the accounts of anyone it likes is certainly a risk, albeit (at the moment) a small one. As we transition towards cashless as the norm, we must not allow any such powers to our governments. As I understand it the accounts of the truck drivers were frozen without court authority, i.e. without due process. That must never be allowed to happen here, but if the covid based restrictions should teach us anything it is that politicians will always push the envelope.

 

[Bald Rick]

Honestly it should. Whilst I don't believe that there is any agenda involved in a move towards a cashless society, it does still come with risks. And a government going rogue and freezing the accounts of anyone it likes is certainly a risk, albeit (at the moment) a small one. As we transition towards cashless as the norm, we must not allow any such powers to our governments. As I understand it the accounts of the truck drivers were frozen without court authority, i.e. without due process. That must never be allowed to happen here, but if the covid based restrictions should teach us anything it is that politicians will always push the envelope.

How much cash do you keep at home, ie out of your bank account in the event of such an eventuality then?

A frozen bank account means just that, you can’t use it at all. If the mysterious ‘they’ in Government do it, they’ll freeze your credit cards too.

 

[Bantamzen]

How much cash do you keep at home, ie out of your bank account in the event of such an eventuality then?

A frozen bank account means just that, you can’t use it at all. If the mysterious ‘they’ in Government do it, they’ll freeze your credit cards too.

I don't, but this is not my point. We need to ensure that the legislation is never in place, emergency or otherwise that would allow our government to do what the Canadian government did. Its more about political vigilance than psychically having a backup. Although that said, let's face it networks can go down or be attacked, so I'm actually starting to think that having a small amount of "rainy day" cash at home might not be without merits.

 

[yorksrob]

I think it is some chain pubs that have taken the decision to go card only.

In Birmingham, All Bar One and some of the trendy pubs on Broad Street do not accept cash, but Wetherspoons and the local independent pubs around where I live still do.

EDIT :

..and now there are bank branches that don't accept deposits of cash

Barclays said it has no current plans to expand the number of cashless branches.

If you believe in the saying "..never believe anything until it is officially denied..", then what Barclays (plus all the other banks) are really saying is "...we want more cashless branches, but we don't think we can get away with admitting this publicly yet..."

Bank branches turn away customers depositing cash

Experts warn of a sign of things to come as cash use continues to fall

www.telegraph.co.uk

A cashless bank.

I've heard it all now.

 

[DustyBin]

To those who do think they'd use cash if the Government turned on them, do you keep a grand or two under the mattress? As if the Government would block your debit card it'd also block withdrawals from your bank account.

Yes. It’s for (and from) buying and selling in person though, rather than “just in case”. And it’s not literally under the mattress……

I completely agree with @Bantamzen here. The “probably won’t happen and if it does I’ll worry about it then” brigade are missing the point IMO.

 

[MikeWM]

To those who do think they'd use cash if the Government turned on them, do you keep a grand or two under the mattress? As if the Government would block your debit card it'd also block withdrawals from your bank account.

Yes, of course I do though also not *literally* under the mattress, that'd be a bit unpleasant.

I started doing so back around 2008 during the financial crisis, when it looked quite plausible that banks may limit withdrawals for a while if they got into trouble. It seemed prudent to have some amount of cash in hand.

--

Honestly it should. Whilst I don't believe that there is any agenda involved in a move towards a cashless society, it does still come with risks.

I don't believe anyone really planned for this to happen either, but I'm quite sure there's a number of people who are very pleased indeed with how gleefully we're embracing the rush towards getting rid of cash, and no doubt were rather happy when covid accelerated that. I didn't see much, ior indeed any, official pronouncements once it was shown that cash wasn't a vector of transmission of covid.

In much the same way I don't expect anyone particularly planned for, but nevertheless are very happy about, that the vast majority of the population nowadays are quite happy to carry around individual tracking devices everywhere they go - and pay large amounts of money for the pleasure of doing so! Even Orwell didn't manage to predict that one.

--

I completely agree with @Bantamzen here. The “probably won’t happen and if it does I’ll worry about it then” brigade are missing the point IMO.

Well, indeed, the point is it is too late to worry about it once it has happened. You *can't* realistically protest about it if it means you (and your family) will starve. Some things have to be stopped before they go too far.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A cashless bank.

I've heard it all now.

That does seem remarkably pointless. The thing that requires in-person banking is cash. Why bother with it otherwise?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2023 ==

Yes. It’s for (and from) buying and selling in person though, rather than “just in case”. And it’s not literally under the mattress……

I completely agree with @Bantamzen here. The “probably won’t happen and if it does I’ll worry about it then” brigade are missing the point IMO.

Personally I'd be more worried about my house burning down or being broken into and said cash being destroyed or stolen (possibly including the safe it'd be in). If there was a total banking collapse, then we'd have more to worry about than needing cash - the pound itself would be worthless and we'd be back to barter.

I do keep 50 quid ish in my wallet, but that's mostly for getting chips as the chippy is cash only. A backup is sensible, but my real backup is having a Visa credit card as well as a Mastercard debit card, both with totally different banks.

 

[Broucek]

so I'm actually starting to think that having a small amount of "rainy day" cash at home might not be without merits.

Tend to agree. I had a slight wobble a couple of months ago. My accessible savings are with the Coventry Building society (used to offset my mortgage). The balance on my (Lloyds) current account was a little low after an unexpected expense and I went to top it up only to find that all systems were down at the Coventry for a few days... Thankfully I had a small amound of money in a Nationwide current account that we rarely use and that was enough. But it was a useful wake-up call around resiliance. I now keep a slightly bigger balance in my current account and have topped up the Nationwide account.

But having a bit of cash at home in case of a wider systems failure (let alone government persecution) is probably a good idea. (I'm aware that this is luxury that not everyone would be able to afford )

 

[MikeWM]

Personally I'd be more worried about my house burning down or being broken into and said cash being destroyed or stolen (possibly including the safe it'd be in).

I view it as an insurance policy, and am fortunate enough to be able to take that slight risk of losing a couple of grand against the fact it may be potentially useful in the future. Of course not everyone is in a financial position to be able to do this, but happily I am, so it seems to me to be a sensible thing to do.

If there was a total banking collapse, then we'd have more to worry about than needing cash - the pound itself would be worthless and we'd be back to barter.

Oh, indeed - there's not much point in trying to hedge against that by storing cash as that would immediately be useless too. It is more 'intermediate' scenarios that I'm thinking about, at least at this point, such as temporary controls on how much money you can take out of a bank and/or temporary freezes on using cards against specific accounts, or a government freeze on personal assets that turns out to be mistaken identity that takes a few weeks to sort out.

 

[Cdd89]

Back on topic , another remaining effect that hasn't been mentioned is the fourth tab of the BBC News web site. The article rate is below one a week, and much of it is analysis rather than breaking news.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think it's time to leave the cash discussion there. There was a thread running to more than 800 posts (see here) featuring almost exactly the same cast of characters as this thread only a few months ago! Lets try and stick to the topic at hand thank you

 

[kristiang85]

This is another potential long-term effect...

Maggie Rogers notices more fans having panic attacks at her gigs

Maggie Rogers thinks it's down to people being away from crowds for so long because of Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

Singer Maggie Rogers says she's seeing more people passing out and having panic attacks at her gigs.
The American artist thinks it's down to people being away from crowds and concerts for so long because of the coronavirus pandemic.
In an Instagram post, she asked her fans to stay hydrated and look after others around them.
Anxiety therapist Angela McMillan isn't surprised people might be struggling as they get used to going out again.
She says it's something she is seeing more and more in her counselling work.
"I think the lockdowns created a situation where people were at home, they weren't around lots of people," she tells Newsbeat.
"There was a lot of fear and anxiety around being in contact with other human beings when accessing things like loud noises or music."

I do wonder if anxiety medication prescriptions have been on the up in the past 2-3 years. It wouldn't surprise me given the constant barrage of fear people are subjected to.

 

[Broucek]

I do wonder if anxiety medication prescriptions have been on the up in the past 2-3 years. It wouldn't surprise me given the constant barrage of fear people are subjected to.

I've seen a few non-scientific suggestions that this is true. As you say, it wouldn't be a surprise.

My wife has only just overcome an enhanced feer of large crowds that she never had before. She was well aware that it was irrational (she was never disproportionately scared of COVID) but it came from quite a deep instinct

 

[Bikeman78]

I did learn to play that to my advantage when I was having some issues that required contact with the doctors - my surgery operates the 0830 phone scrum or you're not seeing anyone today nonsense. I worked out that I could dial the number the precise length of time of the waffle before the phone lines opened and without fail I'd be number 1 in the queue.

I like that, very clever. I've managed to register on the online system now. Seems to work.

 

[LowLevel]

I like that, very clever. I've managed to register on the online system now. Seems to work.

Ah yes, I like the app. I can view my test results, order a repeat prescription and it's very helpful.

Can I book an appointment? No. "Appointments are not available to book online, please call your surgery".

So it's the 0830 scrum whereby you get either Dragon Receptionist or Lovely Receptionist tell you that you can either see someone today and if so, you'd best put some money on the lottery, oh no, we won't be able to see you for 3 months, or if you really think it's urgent go down the walk in centre.

Once you get into a treatment path they're fine and very efficient. Getting started with that is a nightmare. There seems to be some access to "I have a lump/my throat is closing up" etc, what might be called urgent care - but for niggling "I'm not really sure this is right and I'd like to discuss it with someone" actually trying to get that is a horrendous task. I've had a bad knee for years and trying to get a slot to get it looked at during the few days it flares up is nigh on impossible.

 

[duncanp]

Ah yes, I like the app. I can view my test results, order a repeat prescription and it's very helpful.

Can I book an appointment? No. "Appointments are not available to book online, please call your surgery".

So it's the 0830 scrum whereby you get either Dragon Receptionist or Lovely Receptionist tell you that you can either see someone today and if so, you'd best put some money on the lottery, oh no, we won't be able to see you for 3 months, or if you really think it's urgent go down the walk in centre.

Once you get into a treatment path they're fine and very efficient. Getting started with that is a nightmare. There seems to be some access to "I have a lump/my throat is closing up" etc, what might be called urgent care - but for niggling "I'm not really sure this is right and I'd like to discuss it with someone" actually trying to get that is a horrendous task. I've had a bad knee for years and trying to get a slot to get it looked at during the few days it flares up is nigh on impossible.

My GP surgery doesn't upload all the appointments to the online booking system at once.

It releases a tranche of appointments a couple of times a day, and if you time it right you can usually get a face to face or telephone appoinment the same day, or within a few days at the most.

A few months ago some stupid twit posted on the local Facebook group that the appointments wwere uploaded at 8am and 1pm every day, and for a few weeks after that it was impossible to get an appointment.

But they changed the times at which the appointments are uploaded, and now it seems to have settled down again.

They still have the notice about compulsory face nappies on the entrance door, but no-one wears one when you get inside, neither patients or staff.

 

[adc82140]

I've just booked a table at Zizzi next weekend and got the confirmation email. It reminds me to wear a face covering except when sitting down, and to register with NHS track and trace. Really it would take someone 5 minutes to change the email sent out. It makes you slightly concerned whether they keep up to date with important legislation like food hygiene.

 

[bleeder4]

I think it is some chain pubs that have taken the decision to go card only.

In Birmingham, All Bar One and some of the trendy pubs on Broad Street do not accept cash, but Wetherspoons and the local independent pubs around where I live still do.

EDIT :

..and now there are bank branches that don't accept deposits of cash

Barclays said it has no current plans to expand the number of cashless branches.

If you believe in the saying "..never believe anything until it is officially denied..", then what Barclays (plus all the other banks) are really saying is "...we want more cashless branches, but we don't think we can get away with admitting this publicly yet..."

Bank branches turn away customers depositing cash

Experts warn of a sign of things to come as cash use continues to fall

www.telegraph.co.uk

Which All Bar One are you referring to? The one on Brindleyplace accepts cash. I was there just a few weeks ago with family and we paid in cash.

 

[ainsworth74]

I've just booked a table at Zizzi next weekend and got the confirmation email. It reminds me to wear a face covering except when sitting down, and to register with NHS track and trace. Really it would take someone 5 minutes to change the email sent out. It makes you slightly concerned whether they keep up to date with important legislation like food hygiene.

Actually it shows the opposite in my view. They likely keep up with food hygine requirements because it is important. Fiddling with an email template (that the staff probably never see and may well have been set by someone who has since left) is waaaay down the list of priorities.

 

[adc82140]

Actually it shows the opposite in my view. They likely keep up with food hygine requirements because it is important. Fiddling with an email template (that the staff probably never see and may well have been set by someone who has since left) is waaaay down the list of priorities.

But this email is the first customer interaction. I think first impressions are rather important. When the company I work for changed its strapline, which is on the face of it inconsequential, all teams were instructed to go through email templates etc and make the relevant changes immediately. There wasn't just one person in charge of it.

 

[ainsworth74]

But this email is the first customer interaction. I think first impressions are rather important. When the company I work for changed its strapline, which is on the face of it inconsequential, all teams were instructed to go through email templates etc and make the relevant changes immediately. There wasn't just one person in charge of it.

Surely the first interaction was on the booking form on their website? Which, funnily enough, makes no mention of Covid or anything else. Almost like that's been updated but the email has simply been overlooked because it isn't considered important unlike, say, ensuring that the food served is up to standard and safe to eat. I appreciate that someone people remain upset/angry/disappointed/worried/insert emotion here when they see outdated Covid signage but all it actually implies is that someone hasn't gotten around to dealing with something that is for 99% of the population an irrelevance.

 

[DustyBin]

Surely the first interaction was on the booking form on their website? Which, funnily enough, makes no mention of Covid or anything else. Almost like that's been updated but the email has simply been overlooked because it isn't considered important unlike, say, ensuring that the food served is up to standard and safe to eat. I appreciate that someone people remain upset/angry/disappointed/worried/insert emotion here when they see outdated Covid signage but all it actually implies is that someone hasn't gotten around to dealing with something that is for 99% of the population an irrelevance.

I actually agree with you in the main, but personally I think it’s pretty poor to still be sending such nonsense emails out at this stage. Premier Inn are terrible for it as well; although they seem to have finally updated their emails the daft signage remains in a lot of locations.

When it became clear that restrictions were gone for good (nearly a year ago now I think?) the company I work for made a real effort to get rid of this stuff. It was a truly awful and damaging time, and I’d be happy to never see another mask or social distancing related sign or email ever again.

 

[duncanp]

Which All Bar One are you referring to? The one on Brindleyplace accepts cash. I was there just a few weeks ago with family and we paid in cash.

The one just outside Birmingham New Street station, on the Smallbrook Queensway side.

It was card only last time I visited, but perhaps they have subsequently gone back to accepting cash.

At any rate, they certainly seem to discourage paying in cash.

 

[brad465]

The Telegraph are front paging an exclusive "The Lockdown files", which reveal from 100,000 leaed WhatsApp messages, among other things, that Hancock ignored advice from Whitty about testing those going into care homes:

Daily Telegraph Front Page 1st of March 2023 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

Matt Hancock rejected expert advice on care home testing, according to an analysis of 100,000 leaked texts.

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

(Telegraph front page with headline: "Hancock rejected Whitty's advice on care home tests")

What's particularly interesting is Isabel Oakeshott helped write Hancock's "Pandemic Diaries", so it's possible he gave her these messages, and if so now she's absolutely burned him.