Why weren't Northern Ireland's buses privatised?

[Simon75]

Why weren't Northern Ireland buses privatised in 1986 like the rest of the the UK, and has it worked out better or worse than the rest of the UK ?

 

[Elwyn]

No idea why they weren’t privatized, but from a personal perspective the continuing arrangement whereby the buses and trains are all part of Translink is much better for the public.

Certain tickets are transferable between trains and buses but more importantly when something goes wrong eg a train broken down or overloaded, a bus can normally easily be summoned to sort the problem with little fuss.

I was at Antrim train station a year or two back when the annual Balmoral Agricultural Show was on at the Maze. There were at least a hundred passengers or more on the platform when the train arrived. Crammed. Few could get on board and most were left behind. The supervisor made a phone call and directed the remaining passengers to buses in the adjacent bus station. Lucky perhaps? (3 buses and drivers being free is not guaranteed but it worked that day).

Staff also transfer regularly between buses and trains both as drivers and conductors/guards (despite the obvious skills differences for some of the roles, but there are presumably training solutions for that) and that seems to work & offer greater opportunities for them as well as benefits for passengers. I know several personally and they seem broadly content with the arrangements.

 

[Gloster]

Well, one thing comes to mind. Who would pay the insurance?

 

[Elwyn]

Well, one thing comes to mind. Who would pay the insurance?

Insurance for what, exactly?

 

[johncrossley]

Insurance for what, exactly?

Back in the 70s and/or 80s, buses in Northern Ireland were destroyed on a regular basis.

 

[Elwyn]

Yes that’s absolutely correct but buses destroyed by terrorists in NI weren’t ever covered by any insurance. Acts of terrorism fall outside most UK insurance policies. If, for example, your car, bus, train or house is destroyed by an act of terrorism your insurers will not cover you. However the Government normally steps in to provide a financial remedy instead. And that’s how it worked in NI.

But that said, I am still not sure how that relates to the OP’s question about privatizing buses in 1986. Whether privately owned or state owned, the same principles would apply. (And there have always been privately owned buses in NI all through the Troubles).

 

[danm14]

I wonder if there was a concern that services in certain areas would end up under paramilitary control, similar to the Falls Road and Shankill Road "black taxi" services?

 

[whoosh]

Probably placed in the "too difficult because of 'the troubles'" pile.

Also the Railways in Northern Ireland.

The UK mainland bus and rail privatisations happened before the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[Gloster]

Simply put: if your fleet of buses are going to be decimated on a regular basis, you want somebody to pay for the replacements. As long as you have a state-owned company, the taxpayer pays. If you have a private company running the buses, you have the question of who pays for the replacement, and you are unlikely to find any insurance company willing to vary their terms to cover terrorism. This leaves you with the taxpayer again, which can raise all sorts of problems now the recipient is a private company.

 

[Elwyn]

Plenty of privately owned buses were destroyed during the Troubles, same as state owned. None was insured if the incident was deemed a terrorist event. But in that situation, all were eligible for Government compensation instead. There wasn’t a “.. question of who pays for the replacement..” The Northern Ireland Office had, and still has, a department that deals with such claims. It was a routine process. (Similar arrangements applied throughout the UK during WW2 when dealing with enemy bomb damage claims. This is not new legal territory).

Plenty of private bus companies operated here all through the Troubles. There was always plenty of private hire activity, plus the many cross border bus services including, for example, the daily Gallaghers service from Donegal Town to Glasgow, via Larne. Indeed, like this Donegal to Glasgow service, many were run by companies based in the Republic of Ireland, never mind by UK based companies, nationalised or not.

Life often went on here quite normally, all through the Troubles. Many privately owned bus companies made money all through the Troubles. Basic economics tells you they wouldn’t have continued operating had the finances not made sense.

So terrorist activity wasn’t in itself a legal or financial obstacle to privatisation.

 

[PG]

Just to give an idea of the scale of the losses: -

• 757 Bristol RELLs operated in NI
  • 600 bought New
  • 157 bought Used
• 379 destroyed in the Troubles i.e. 50%

Interesting to speculate if those losses would have been so high if the buses were not operated by the State i.e. not perceived as British government assets?

Source: http://www.classicbuses.co.uk

 

[Stena Galloway]

Just to give an idea of the scale of the losses: -

• 757 Bristol RELLs operated in NI
  • 600 bought New
  • 157 bought Used
• 379 destroyed in the Troubles i.e. 50%

Interesting to speculate if those losses would have been so high if the buses were not operated by the State i.e. not perceived as British government assets?

Source: http://www.classicbuses.co.uk

There were actually 620 Bristol RELLs purchased. The original 20 were bodied by Alexander's in Falkirk and entered service in Derry/Londonderry. Out of the 20 only 1 survived the Troubles. The rest were destroyed in hijacks. The survivor is 1058 9058UZ and is preserved by the Ards Preservation Group.