Does platform 2 at Amersham ever get used by NR?

[All platforms]

.... and if so how can this be anticipated?

RTT gives us no info ahead of time of any platform usage, and after the event only reports if P3 is used. The official journey planner gives no platform information at all.

My understanding is that Chiltern only use P1 and P3 whilst the underground uses P2. Searching the underground timetables throws up occasional usage of P1 and P3 as well by them. If the Underground can predict/plan usage on all 3 platforms what stops National rail doing so at this station?

Do i have a hope of ever using P2 at Amersham on a Chiltern service? If so how?

I do have my eye on the 7.02am Saturday only service as a long shot but i think the incoming ecs is planned for P3. Going North from P3 would be an unusual move but for my preferences P2 would be a winner. All thoughts welcome..

 

[zwk500]

My understanding is that Chiltern only use P1 and P3 whilst the underground uses P2. Searching the underground timetables throws up occasional usage of P1 and P3 as well by them. If the Underground can predict/plan usage on all 3 platforms what stops National rail doing so at this station?

Unless there's a prohibition on it in LU documentation (The line is LUL infrastructure not NR so I don't know whether the documentation is in the public domain), there's no particular reason Chiltern couldn't stop at platform 2, however the operational reasons to do so are minimal - P2 would be a much slower route and as Chiltern don't need trains to overtake each other they'd rather keep them in 3.

Do i have a hope of ever using P2 at Amersham on a Chiltern service? If so how?

Train or infrastructure failure forces working around via P2. (Or Engineering works prompt reversals that can't be handled on 1).

I do have my eye on the 7.02am Saturday only service as a long shot but i think the incoming ecs is planned for P3. Going North from P3 would be an unusual move but for my preferences P2 would be a winner. All thoughts welcome..

The line north of Amersham does not appear to be bi-directionally signalled so any departure from P3 would be either Southwards or into the sidings (empty).

 

[bluegoblin7]

Yes, Chiltern services can and do use platform 2 at Amersham (northbound only) although there are some restrictions around its use.

Unfortunately it is impossible to know this ahead of time (outside of certain booked services or scenarios) as the decision is made by the Amersham service operator (signaller) according to the needs of the service. As this is an LUL area, RTT (and other live data sites) do not have information of live train running, which is why platforms etc. do not appear accurately between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham (inclusive). Indeed, even if RTT did incorporate the data feeds there are still no guarantees that such information would appear - the top end of the Met has a very analogue way of working.

That said, any train that terminates at Amersham southbound and returns to the north must use platform 2 due to the track layout in the area. As such, your 0704 SO service is a guaranteed opportunity to use this platform in service.

 

[All platforms]

The line north of Amersham does not appear to be bi-directionally signalled so any departure from P3 would be either Southwards or into the sidings (empty).

That said, any train that terminates at Amersham southbound and returns to the north must use platform 2 due to the track layout in the area. As such, your 0704 SO service is a guaranteed opportunity to use this platform in service.

Thanks to you both for the excellent info provided. As this move appears to be one that disappears in the May Timetable changes i can have a go at this before too long, with confidence it will work. Thanks again.

 

[D7666]

As this is an LUL area, RTT (and other live data sites) do not have information of live train running, which is why platforms etc. do not appear accurately between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham (inclusive). Indeed, even if RTT did incorporate the data feeds there are still no guarantees that such information would appear - the top end of the Met has a very analogue way of working.

That said, any train that terminates at Amersham southbound and returns to the north must use platform 2 due to the track layout in the area. As such, your 0704 SO service is a guaranteed opportunity to use this platform in service.

I did take this subject up once one to one in person with the RTT owner about this - there is a public TfL feed that could be manipluated to plug the gap, it is the one that is used to generate this

Live map of London Underground trains

Although there is no direct feed, it could be done by twiddlling indirectly. As the Chiltern Trains I/D is known to RTT on either side of the LU area, some software coding within RTT could pick up that I/D, combine it with the train position movement off the LU feed, and display the combined result on RTT.
Obviously still subject to the present analoginess of Met. things. The public domain commericial need for this is actually very low though.

 

[Lewlew]

During the recent strikes over Christmas. Chiltern were only running as far south as Amersham, reversing via the siding and returning north again. So keep an eye on any future strike dates.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2023 ==

I did take this subject up once one to one in person with the RTT owner about this - there is a public TfL feed that could be manipluated to plug the gap, it is the one that is used to generate this

Live map of London Underground trains

Although there is no direct feed, it could be done by twiddlling indirectly. As the Chiltern Trains I/D is known to RTT on either side of the LU area, some software coding within RTT could pick up that I/D, combine it with the train position movement off the LU feed, and display the combined result on RTT.
Obviously still subject to the present analoginess of Met. things. The public domain commericial need for this is actually very low though.

Chiltern trains are provided in the TfL Open Data feeds

Amersham station arrivals - https://api.tfl.gov.uk/StopPoint/940GZZLUAMS/Arrivals

All trains on the Met line - https://api.tfl.gov.uk/Line/metropolitan/Arrivals/

You can use my site to see a list of all trains on all lines using the TfL APIs (work in progress, doesn't work well on desktop) - https://app.trackser.co.uk/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2023 ==

the top end of the Met has a very analogue way of working.

The feeds work relatively well, getting info from Trackernet. Trains disappear for a bit when on the mains around Northwood but they also do so on Trackernet I believe.

 

[bluegoblin7]

The feeds work relatively well, getting info from Trackernet. Trains disappear for a bit when on the mains around Northwood but they also do so on Trackernet I believe.

If I was catching a train (the primary reason for using sites like RTT) I wouldn't trust the feeds north of Wembley. No gaps on the Mains but train numbers/IDs are often incorrect. Trackernet (i.e. the fully blown internal version) certainly isn't a reliable source in that area and is frequently wrong.

Obviously still subject to the present analoginess of Met. things.

Aye, it is possible, but this would also require the feeds to be correct (which they're not) - there's a few significant issues around Harrow at the moment, for instance, that are unlikely to be resolved before CBTC comes in and have a significant negative effect on the usefulness of all the Met feeds as a result. (Drop me an email if you want some info on this, but tldr: cable fault.)

 

[sammyg901]

I've had issues with delay repay at Harrow-on-the-hill where the timing that Chiltern (and RTT) see after the fact does not match with the reality on the ground.Most annoying!

Indeed - the only Amersham terminator in the new timetable is a Saturday night train but that goes back to Aylesbury ECS. The other short working of an afternoon turns at Great Missenden.

It's also quite an unusual terminating point for engineering work - usually it's Great Missenden or of late the whole line goes over to buses instead

 

[philthetube]

Normally the Amersham signaller will decide to run trains into Platform 2 at the last minute for operational reasons, in the evening peak if a met is running late, with a diesel being, the met may be put into one, to allow the Chiltern ahead to run through and the met behind that to detrain in 2 then head for the siding to reverse, if a platform has to be blocked at Amersham for any reason it is better to block platform one for operational flexibility.

 

[AF91]

Northbound trains starting at Amersham will always use P2 as P1 isn't accessible from the siding used by Chiltern to turn trains at the south of the station.

 

[D7666]

If I was catching a train (the primary reason for using sites like RTT) I wouldn't trust the feeds north of Wembley. No gaps on the Mains but train numbers/IDs are often incorrect. Trackernet (i.e. the fully blown internal version) certainly isn't a reliable source in that area and is frequently wrong.



Aye, it is possible, but this would also require the feeds to be correct (which they're not) - there's a few significant issues around Harrow at the moment, for instance, that are unlikely to be resolved before CBTC comes in and have a significant negative effect on the usefulness of all the Met feeds as a result. (Drop me an email if you want some info on this, but tldr: cable fault.)

hehehe I am only TOO familiar with cable faults there and anywhere else

I was trying not to reveal our defects in public !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

Chiltern trains are provided in the TfL Open Data feeds

Amersham station arrivals - https://api.tfl.gov.uk/StopPoint/940GZZLUAMS/Arrivals

All trains on the Met line - https://api.tfl.gov.uk/Line/metropolitan/Arrivals/

You can use my site to see a list of all trains on all lines using the TfL APIs (work in progress, doesn't work well on desktop) - https://app.trackser.co.uk/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2023 ==


The feeds work relatively well, getting info from Trackernet. Trains disappear for a bit when on the mains around Northwood but they also do so on Trackernet I believe.

thanking you for those details but I think maybe you don't know what my day job is !!!!!! (and I'm not going to post it here either)

 

[Lewlew]

hehehe I am only TOO familiar with cable faults there and anywhere else

I was trying not to reveal our defects in public !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==


thanking you for those details but I think maybe you don't know what my day job is !!!!!! (and I'm not going to post it here either)

I actually meant to say Chiltern trains are NOT provided in the TfL feeds. So combining them with the NR feeds wouldn’t improve anything.

If you have any influence and want to get the Chilterns trains showing then that would be much appreciated

 

[D7666]

I actually meant to say Chiltern trains are NOT provided in the TfL feeds. So combining them with the NR feeds wouldn’t improve anything.

If you have any influence and want to get the Chilterns trains showing then that would be much appreciated

As has been posted upthread by bluegoblin7, unlikely anything will change before CBTC.

Which makes sense; info for RTT for trainspotters is not exactly high priority; while RTT is used in some cases by some other industry users, these all have other means at their disposal. Doubtful if there are a significant amount of other 'normal' (non crank non industry) users that actually look at RTT down to this level.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I thought I'd mention here, for the benefit of @All platforms and anyone else who might be interested, that Amersham platform 2 will be used for all* Chiltern services until further notice.

*Non-stop services and those formed of 6- or more cars will continue to run via platform 1. Platforming working may be altered as service requirements dictate.

 

[EnriqueEspaña]

Maybe not a very useful contribution but I could swear I have been on a train from Marylebone that arrived in platform two on my way back to Great Missenden

 

[All platforms]

I thought I'd mention here, for the benefit of @All platforms and anyone else who might be interested, that Amersham platform 2 will be used for all* Chiltern services until further notice.

*Non-stop services and those formed of 6- or more cars will continue to run via platform 1. Platforming working may be altered as service requirements dictate.

Many thanks, that will makes things much easier logistically - and a bit cheaper as i can arrive from the South at minimal extra cost using a Travelcard. My inner nerd does wonder why it has suddenly come into use however.