Confusing announcement about Kings X St P and ticket validity on Euston route

[suzanneparis]

Hello can anyone please help with some information about what just happened to me this afternoon in London.

We were on the tube going to St Pancras to catch the train back to Leicester. But there was an announcement on the tube train to the effect that trains were not running from "Kings Cross St Pancras".
I didn't know what that means. Kinds Cross? or St Pancras? or Both?
So, we decided to get off the tube at Euston and we asked the tube gate staff if they knew anything. They asked someone behind a glass screen who had computer monitors in front of them. They phoned St Pancras (we were told). And the response came back 'no trains from Kings Cross St Pancras'. I asked if that was KX or St P. But was told both but in a way that implied it's the same station?
We went to a booth on the concourse at Euston. We were told we could NOT catch the train from E to Nuneaton to Leicester.
(incidentally they didn't look at our ticket but I notice it says only valid on EMR!)
We walked to St P where we caught a train and got back to Leicester.

Questions:
1. Confusing announcement. Is it common for an announcement about Kings X to describe the station as KC StP?
2. Is it normal for tickets to say valid on EMR only?
3. Was my ticket valid on the Euston to Nuneaton to Leicester route?

Many thanks for any help

 

[ainsworth74]

1. The London Underground station which serves Kings Cross and St Pancras is called "Kings Cross St Pancras" as it is, from an LU point of view is one station. Therefore the announcements on board will refer to it as such. I assume you heard something like "There are no National Rail services from Kings Cross St Pancras"? Personally I think it would have made more sense to continue onto Kings Cross St Pancras and make enquiries there rather than ask LU staff at a different station but perhaps that's just me!

2. Depends on the ticket, but for booked train only tickets (also called Advance Purchase) it would be perfectly normal.

3. If it said "EMR Only" then no it wasn't.

 

[JamieL]

Isn't Kings Cross St Pancras the name of the Underground station rather than the two mainline stations?

 

[Future]

1. Confusing announcement. Is it common for an announcement about Kings X to describe the station as KC StP?
2. Is it normal for tickets to say valid on EMR only?
3. Was my ticket valid on the Euston to Nuneaton to Leicester route?

Many thanks for any help

1) Kings Cross STP is one station on the tube, it servers both stations
2) Particularly with advance tickets, yes it is normal
3) If you are travelling on non-EMR services then no

Edit: Ainsworth74 has beat me with a better answer!

 

[1D54]

1) yes
2) yes
3) no.

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't Kings Cross St Pancras the name of the Underground station rather than the two mainline stations?

Yes, LU call their station Kings Cross St Pancras as it is one station which serves two separate National Rail stations.

 

[suzanneparis]

Thanks everyone. I do realise that the tube station is called KX St P. BUT the announcement clearly said mainline trains from KX St P. Which, as I mention, could mean KX or St P or both.

As for the journey route back to Leicester are there any regulations that specify what routes you can use with a ticket?

It was a super off peak ticket return from Leicester to London St P.

IF there hadn't been any trains running from St P could we have used the Euston route?

Thanks again

 

[WizCastro197]

There are reduced Thameslink trains from St Pancras today, which the announcements well could have hinted at.

Well if it was EMR only, there is only really one route you could have gone about it, as all northbound trains (part from Corby trains) stop at Leicester.

If there were no trains from STP (St Pancras), they would have sold you the ticket with rail replacement bus, if they were provided. I don’t think you would have been able to go via Euston as your ticket specified EMR only, unless there was strict ticket acceptance in place.

 

[suzanneparis]

Thanks again. Some time ago there was a conversation about what constituted a reasonable route from St P to Leicester. I think there was some talk of the difference in distance between the direct route and the Nuneaton route.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks again. Some time ago there was a conversation about what constituted a reasonable route from St P to Leicester. I think there was some talk of the difference in distance between the direct route and the Nuneaton route.

That's academic because your ticket was routed EMR Only.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was a super off peak ticket return from Leicester to London St P.

There must be some confusion, a Super Off-Peak return ticket from Leicester to London (£70.00 without railcard, £46.20 with) is only available with a route of "Any Permitted". Why do you think it's EMR only?

 

[yorkie]

Thanks again. Some time ago there was a conversation about what constituted a reasonable route from St P to Leicester. I think there was some talk of the difference in distance between the direct route and the Nuneaton route.

This has been discussed before in more detail (I will send you a direct message in due course with the links) but if your ticket was routed EMR only, it was not valid that way.

Can you upload a photo of your ticket?

 

[WizCastro197]

There must be some confusion, a Super Off-Peak return ticket from Leicester to London (£70.00 without railcard, £46.20 with) is only available with a route of "Any Permitted". Why do you think it's EMR only?

Unless OP perhaps had a reservation with EMR, leading them to believe it was EMR only therefore they were tied to that particular train, whereas in fact it was ‘any route permitted’?

 

[suzanneparis]

Many thanks again
Ticket details

Super Off-Peak Return 1st Return

Valid for one journey From
from London Terminals 16-FBY-23
to Leicester Until
15-MCH-23

Valid on East Midlands Railway only
See restrictions nre.co.uk/CI
Adult 1st Class
With Senior Railcard
Refundable and exchangeable for a fee
£65.00X

 

[ainsworth74]

Many thanks again
Ticket details

Super Off-Peak Return 1st Return

Valid for one journey From
from London Terminals 16-FBY-23
to Leicester Until
15-MCH-23

Valid on East Midlands Railway only
See restrictions nre.co.uk/CI
Adult 1st Class
With Senior Railcard
Refundable and exchangeable for a fee
£65.00X


FYI we did ask for seat reservations. Does that tie us to EMR if we travel at a different time?

Ahh sorry I assumed you had a standard class. All becomes clear. Yes you could only use EMR services with that ticket. The seat reservations aren't relevant as that is a flexible ticket valid on any EMR service on Saturday/Sunday but with some time restrictions on weekdays.

 

[suzanneparis]

Are standard class tickets more flexible?

 

[BJames]

There are reduced Thameslink trains from St Pancras today, which the announcements well could have hinted at.

Well if it was EMR only, there is only really one route you could have gone about it, as all northbound trains (part from Corby trains) stop at Leicester.

If there were no trains from STP (St Pancras), they would have sold you the ticket with rail replacement bus, if they were provided. I don’t think you would have been able to go via Euston as your ticket specified EMR only, unless there was strict ticket acceptance in place.

I assume what has happened here is that as King's Cross mainline is closed this weekend, the Victoria line will have announced this but it has just simply referred to the name of the underground station, not taking into account there are two National Rail stations to interchange here. It is another example (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/victoria-line-disruption-announcements.240792/) of how things could potentially be done better in the case of disruption.

In OP's case, if this happens in future and you are unsure which station it is referring to then I think help would be better sought above ground at St Pancras given the uncertainty.

 

[Richardr]

There are no trains out of Kings Cross today, or on the line between there and Stevenage, which means no Thameslink trains on that line via St Pancras Thameslink.

As far as other services out of St Pancras, including Thameslink on the Bedford Line, apart from a minor knock-on effect, they are running.

No announcement should have said that there are no trains from Kings Cross St Pancras - there are, just not on one of the lines.

 

[suzanneparis]

Yes, thanks. You are correct we were on the Victoria line.

We were anxious to get home asap and so after the announcement that we found confusing we got off at Euston. Yes, am sure you are correct we should have gone to St P first. Lesson learnt.

I suppose to be fair to TFL they were intending to be helpful. Perhaps the solution would be to rename the tube station ) Gasometer station??

 

[WizCastro197]

During strike periods, the announcements usually follow:

‘National Rail services from x are severely disrupted’.

Or maybe:

‘National Rail services from this station are suspended’.

Perhaps something like that? I’ll have a little look around.

 

[ainsworth74]

Are standard class tickets more flexible?

Yes, for Leicester to St Pancras the flexible returns (Anytime, Off-Peak, Super Off-Peak and Travelcards) in standard class are routed "Any Permitted". For first class only the Anytime Return and Travelcard fares are routed "Any Permitted" the others (Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak) are routed "EMR Only".

 

[yorkie]

It sounds like the announcement made on the tube was misleading; trains were running from St Pancras. You could take up the issue of misleading announcements with TfL.

Your ticket was absolutely fine on the direct service, which was running, and was not valid out of Euston.

I think that settles this one.

@suzanneparis I restored the posts you deleted, as otherwise the thread doesn't make sense. ( If anyone would ever like posts to be deleted, please leave the posts intact and instead use the report button; we'll consider each request on its merits)