Guard Voice / announcement Training?

[strange6]

These PA systems on trains that the guards use, are something of a mixed blessing! Hearing the guard on today's train make an absolute cock-up of announcing where the train was going to (it took him about 3 minutes and 5 attempts to get all the stops correct), got me thinking abot possible voice training and if it exists. I can only speak for Northern, but some guards are absolutely rubbish with public speaking (some mumble, some don't get words correct, some are really quiet (even though volume is turned up), some stutter quite badly) whilst others are so good, they could host the X-factor. Do guards on TOC's undergo voice training / public speaking courses for duties such as these?

 

[wensley]

I'm not fully aware of how it works but I do know that some TOCs give short 'scripts' to their staff for PA announcements when training.

Something of a funny story though: when on work experience at GC in summer I was doing a PA announcement when on the train, heading to Sunderland. We were just leaving York: you should've heard the passengers when I said London by mistake!!! Mistake was rapidly corrected although I didn't hear the back of it.

Mistakes are, however, really easy to make (like "Sunderland Kings Cross"!!) as well as others. Some of the staff I have met are really confident and others very nervous. Personally, the thought doesn't bother me and apart from the odd stumble managed OK. Training for a standard across the board may be a good idea but you can't beat a human voice over automated announcements.

Another top tip: keep the PA on when making announcements - it helps and means you don't sound like a nutter talking to yourself

 

[strange6]

I'm not fully aware of how it works but I do know that some TOCs give short 'scripts' to their staff for PA announcements when training.

Something of a funny story though: when on work experience at GC in summer I was doing a PA announcement when on the train, heading to Sunderland. We were just leaving York: you should've heard the passengers when I said London by mistake!!! Mistake was rapidly corrected although I didn't hear the back of it.

Mistakes are, however, really easy to make (like "Sunderland Kings Cross"!!) as well as others. Some of the staff I have met are really confident and others very nervous. Personally, the thought doesn't bother me and apart from the odd stumble managed OK. Training for a standard across the board may be a good idea but you can't beat a human voice over automated announcements.

Another top tip: keep the PA on when making announcements - it helps and means you don't sound like a nutter talking to yourself

lol I have said it before but I think the Northern Guards are very professional and very likeable people. But some could do with speaker training

 

[ralphchadkirk]

There most probably is training on this.

When I do announcements (Heritage, not for a TOC) I plan what I'm going to say in advance, and speak slowly and clearly, repeating important points. So far it seems to work!

 

[driver9000]

It's not possible to alter the volume of the PA on Northerns diesel fleet (I'm not sure about the AC units) so if the Guards announcement is quiet it could be a fault in the system rather than the Guard speaking quietly.

 

[strange6]

It's not possible to alter the volume of the PA on Northerns diesel fleet (I'm not sure about the AC units) so if the Guards announcement is quiet it could be a fault in the system rather than the Guard speaking quietly.

I knew somebody would come back with that. Sometimes it is the system but othertimes, you can hear the white noise so some people do have quiet voices. That's not a criticism of them but maybe for people like that they could have those handheld voice amplifiers and walk down the train using it

 

[driver9000]

The worst thing I find with the PA is when a mobile phone signal interferes with it and you get that annoying digital noise through it over the Guards voice!

 

[175001]

Even us guards are human

 

[BestWestern]

It's very hard to judge the volume of an announcement, as on many units you can't actually 'hear' yourself talking, you just speak into a dead-sounding handset in the hope that somebody can hear it! 158's are pretty good as there is a speaker right behind the cab, although the drivers often get a moan in if you make the full speech when you should (tough luck in my book!). On a 150 it's difficult as you hear nothing through the handset, it tends to be very noisy in the saloons and often the PA system is poor. I've had complaints many times about the PA, both too loud and too quiet!

I recall being given a 'script' for the Transec security stuff (unattended bags, cctv, etc) a while back but I'll admit that I use my own version having considered the official one far too long and tedious. Some voice coaching would be very helpful as I totally agree that many Guards, often unintentionally, make poor announcements. I do my best with mine, and have positive feedback (from the passengers, not from the speakers!) here and there, but of course you never really find out how it actually sounds 'out there'. I personally feel that it's the first bit of interaction passengers usually get and so it's good to do it well. But sadly quite a few Guards just aren't bothered, which is a shame.

 

[rail-britain]

When I worked on InterCity East Coast we got basic on-the-job training and an assessment on three public announcments
This included a booklet on basic accouncements

One of my first assignments was the 08:55 Aberdeen - Plymouth
I started with the usual speel, "Good morning, this is the 08:55 InterCity service to Plymouth
First Class in Coach G is currently located at the front of the train
Passengers with [can't remember the name] tickets will find Coach F next to the Buffet, towards the front of the train
Passengers with tickets to Plymouth may also use the exclusive service subject to a £10 upgrade, as there are currently eight unreserved seats
This includes drinks and two meals, one shortly after departure and one around lunch time
This train will call at [places], Edinburgh Waverley, and then numerous stops to Plymouth
There are now three minutes to departure, so any person not intending to travel will you now please make your way to the platform so that we can have a prompt on-time departure"

 

[Urban Gateline]

Speaking of PA's, has anyone seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g15Luq1-0XU)

Some naughty teenagers managed to open the guard control panel and make an announcement! I wonder what SWT have to say about this

 

[BestWestern]

Naughty indeed! A Guard would probably presume that the panel just wasn't shut properly and not bother to take it any further, but if I caught some scroat with a T-key I'd be sitting outside the next station until the Coppers phoned to say they were waiting on the platform, no matter how amusing their antics might have been! Just goes to show how obselete carriage keys are nowadays, God only knows how many hundreds of them there must be out there in illicit circulation. Time to get replacing those locks methinks...

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yes, exactly, it's sad that people have to do these sorts of things too...

Imagine if someone gets hold of that key and messes with the door controls

 

[strange6]

Yes, exactly, it's sad that people have to do these sorts of things too...

Imagine if someone gets hold of that key and messes with the door controls

Can the doors be activated, even at the control panel, if the train is moving?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Can the doors be activated, even at the control panel, if the train is moving?

Not when it is moving over a certain speed, I think only at under 10mph the doors are released for control panel use. Don't quote me on that though as I'm not a guard, just an observation!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There does seem to be a very specific human ability involved in public speaking and in speaking to an invisible audience.
I know somone who owns a Communications Company with many corporate clients you'll all be familair with. She's great at negotiating business and winning clients, but as a communicator herself, she just cannot speak into a microphone, even in private.
From my own experience, I often have to speak in public and in tense situations such as representing someone I don't even believe in a Court. It doesn't bother me - unless someone of a particular type is somewhere in the room, then I just can't do it properly.
I worked in radio for a while and while I'm very used to using microphones, I just couldn't feel relaxed speaking to an invisible audience.
We're all very different in this respect and it takes more than just a few training sessions to change our abilities.

My favourite on-board announcers are those that express themselves a little bit (rather than a mechanistic reading of 'a script').

 

[Matt Taylor]

Not when it is moving over a certain speed, I think only at under 10mph the doors are released for control panel use. Don't quote me on that though as I'm not a guard, just an observation!

On Class 450s you can only open the doors if the speed is under 3mph, and even then the emergency brake will kick in as soon as the door panel is 'keyed in'.

 

[Urban Gateline]

On Class 450s you can only open the doors if the speed is under 3mph, and even then the emergency brake will kick in as soon as the door panel is 'keyed in'.

Ah thanks for confirming that, It's good to see there are some SWT staff lurking around!

What would you have done though if you were in that situation in the video and you had to deal with that group?

 

[BestWestern]

Tell em to get their arses on seats and behave, introducing them the wonders of CCTV to assist them in being compliant. And then go and call the Police. Local bobbies would do if the BTP are nowhere near. Sod the delay, you don't mess with the train!

 

[Pumbaa]

On Class 450s you can only open the doors if the speed is under 3mph, and even then the emergency brake will kick in as soon as the door panel is 'keyed in'.

Same with 350s and 185s; the 390s will E-Brake if the door controls are touched or even activated at the local panel while the train is moving.

 

[Fincra5]

Basically we are told to speak slowly and clearly and thats about it. We are issued some short scripts for splitting services though, not that they are used, after a short while you know what to say

Worst thing with PA is the 377/1 and 377/3 feedback.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I would take advice from control in a situation like that, but in all probability I would agree with the driver that we wouldn't move from the next station until they got off, neither of us would be prepared to compromise safety in favour of a right time railway.

If I allowed the journey to continue and then there was a safety issue as a result of having these people on board I would bet it would be my backside in court and not my manager's.

 

[scotsman]

In one of my announcements I said "It is with deepest regret that I have to inform you that the USA's football team has failed to defeat England..."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, this man is God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DA39mGnh3g

 

[Aictos]

In one of my announcements I said "It is with deepest regret that I have to inform you that the USA's football team has failed to defeat England..."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also, this man is God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DA39mGnh3g

Mmm, I take it that you're familiar with Aberdeen's own Robo Guard then - Last I heard he was working for National Express East Coast, do you know if he's still based there?

Aprroaching Aberdeen
[youtube]AQVhlFcmkxc[/youtube]

Approaching Dundee
[youtube]OM72OH0ySvM[/youtube]

 

[whhistle]

Ha ha, you guyes haven't seen this then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG7M8Wuvd9k

Not trains but made me cry!

 

[Jonfun]

I've heard plenty of examples of good announcements, and also plenty of the mumble into the handset/can't hold down push to talk/robotic script types - the latter not necessarily being a bad thing but I do think it makes a difference (for the better) when the person announcing has confidence and will deviate from the standard script sometimes.

Doing some station announcing in the heritage railway sector, I pretty much echo what Ralph's said earlier, doing it clearly and well planned, as well as trying to sound reasonably enthusiastic and confident about what I'm trying to say. From experience, this seems to work well and get the message across clearly.

Naughty indeed! A Guard would probably presume that the panel just wasn't shut properly and not bother to take it any further, but if I caught some scroat with a T-key I'd be sitting outside the next station until the Coppers phoned to say they were waiting on the platform, no matter how amusing their antics might have been! Just goes to show how obselete carriage keys are nowadays, God only knows how many hundreds of them there must be out there in illicit circulation. Time to get replacing those locks methinks...

Interesting point there BW - I agree in theory with your point there, but I'm not so sure on how you'd define 'scroat with a T-Key'. I'm a teenager who does have to carry railway keys/equipment with me sometimes on the train (Working at a heritage railway and a railway centre I'd struggle somewhat if I travelled there without them! I of course also carry my heritage railway ID card along with it and the traincrew of any train I travel on would be more than welcome to inspect it.) but I wouldn't start playing with your train - I agree 100% that if you found someone say, sticking their carriage key in a passcom or isolating your doors that would be very much grounds for the above - they could potentially endanger safety of the train. However to do so also for simply catching someone carrying one with no intention of using it (the impression I get from your post - apologies if it's not the case), that seems a bit overkill IMO. It's also worth remembering there's plenty of other walks of life that use T-keys, eg you'll often see street cleaners carrying one as they're used in some design of street dustbin; plus various lower-security cupboards and similar.

Also, the key in the video appears to just be a normal key rather than a T-Key - unfortunately one of the way square locks can be fallible (as an aside isn't that what the secure keys with the circular bit in the middle are supposed to prevent?). I echo your worry about keys falling into 'illicit circulation' however BW - one in the wrong hands could be potentially dangerous. Replacing locks is a potential way of getting around it, but you'd have to create and issue lots more keys, and in a few years time the same could possibly just happen over again.

Sorry to have digressed somewhat,

Cheers,

Jon

 

[scotsman]

Mmm, I take it that you're familiar with Aberdeen's own Robo Guard then - Last I heard he was working for National Express East Coast, do you know if he's still based there?

Aprroaching Aberdeen
[youtube]AQVhlFcmkxc[/youtube]

Approaching Dundee
[youtube]OM72OH0ySvM[/youtube]

Yes, I've met him! He was on my train the other weekend
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Naughty indeed! A Guard would probably presume that the panel just wasn't shut properly and not bother to take it any further, but if I caught some scroat with a T-key I'd be sitting outside the next station until the Coppers phoned to say they were waiting on the platform, no matter how amusing their antics might have been! Just goes to show how obselete carriage keys are nowadays, God only knows how many hundreds of them there must be out there in illicit circulation. Time to get replacing those locks methinks...

What if someone has one genuinely (Preserved Rail work) and a Guard spots it? What's the odds of BTP being summoned?

 

[CosherB]

The quality of on-train announcements does vary an awful lot, so I suspect there is little or no training for the task. When I worked in industry (I'm retired now) we were trained in presentation techniques and frequently put through role-model training scenarios as the image we presented to potential customers had to be correct.

I have also done quite a lot of radio (being interviewed) and am told I have a good radio voice (the unkind say I have a great face for radio! But I've done a bit of TV, too). I don't have a problem launching into a subject at the prompting of the interviewer's question.

In my part-time job I do now I do an awful lot of presenting, some of it to students but most to a mixed audience. There is definately a skill to it, and it also demands a certain natural ability and some folks just can't do it - no fault of theirs: it's just not 'them'. Me? I love it!

The airlines do train staff to make announcements - when was the last time you heard a naff airline on-board announcement?

Some train announcements are very good; I was on a Piccadilly Line Tube this week when we stopped just short of Leicester Square station. The driver came on the Tannoy and made a perfectly annunciated announcement in a strong and clear voice "ladies and gentlemen, we are being held here at a red signal to regulate the service, and will be on our way very shortly". And we were!

Some of the worst are Northern guards! Garbled barely-understandable announcements like "Stockport" in a very feint voice just as the train stops! The poor guy was probably selling a ticket, then had to grab the mike for the announcement, then dash to do the doors! Why can't the driver do the announcements?

 

[Mojo]

These long announcements, especially the pointless ones about what overpriced rubbish the on-board supermarket has to sell just irritate me. The ones about a "fully licensed bar" get on my wick too. How on earth can a train be licensed?!

As for the first video, looking at it that isn't a T-key that the scroat is using, it's just a square shaped thing. I don't know what the intermediate door panels are like on SWT units, but if it's like the ones I'm familiar with then it wouldn't work as they have a circular bit in the middle which fits into the round piece which is cut out from the square piece of the key. Of course it does nothing to stop those who have a genuine T-key.

 

[WestCoast]

The airlines do train staff to make announcements - when was the last time you heard a naff airline on-board announcement?

Have heard a few rather cringe worthy examples on budget airlines and unintelligible ones on a few suspect foreign charter airlines (although that was probably more down to the language skills).

Some of the worst are Northern guards! Garbled barely-understandable announcements like "Stockport" in a very feint voice just as the train stops! The poor guy was probably selling a ticket, then had to grab the mike for the announcement, then dash to do the doors! Why can't the driver do the announcements?

It's funny you say that I was a Northern service from Preston heading towards Blackpool South last weekend, and the guard was a pleasant female, but she did her announcements at about one hundred miles an hour in an Essex accent. It's was so garbled over the Pacer's PA - the whole train literally burst out laughing.

I've heard the drivers do the announcements on the Northern 180s - sounded quite good.

I've heard some really good manual ones on the InterCity style operators (Virgin has a Scottish guy who always adds a little bit of humour but still really professional).