Fare Evasion freedom pass

[Chantal]

Hi ,

Hi I been cought using freedom pass of my mother , they send me a letter to say I have to attend the court next month for Misuse of freedom , they said I used more than 80 times. Is there anyone been to court for the same , what questions they asked you ?am so panicking ,
please reply

 

[30907]

Please post the letter with all personal details and references hidden, then we can advise further. The thread started by berne08 where you previously posted is relevant, but we need your story.

Also, is this the first letter you have had?

 

[6Gman]

Hi ,

Hi I been cought using freedom pass of my mother , they send me a letter to say I have to attend the court next month for Misuse of freedom , they said I used more than 80 times. Is there anyone been to court for the same , what questions they asked you ?am so panicking ,
please reply

I think more information is needed if good advice is to be given.

Exactly what pass is involved (Freedom Passes on here are usually London) but you give your location is Manchester.
How were you "caught"?
Do you dispute their accusation?

If it goes straight to court the key question you will be asked is whether you plead Guilty or Not Guilty.

 

[Chantal]

I used freedom pass while I was London , I am going to plead guilty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

Please post the letter with all personal details and references hidden, then we can advise further. The thread started by berne08 where you previously posted is relevant, but we need your story.

Also, is this the first letter you have had?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

No this is the second letter asking if I plead guilty and attend court or not plead guilty .. I am so panicking and confusing

 

[spag23]

We need to know if the OP replied to the first letter.
And can the OP prove they were in Manchester when the 80 previous alleged misuses occurred?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And can the OP prove they were in Manchester when the 80 previous alleged misuses occurred?

Indeed. In addition, is it possible to "prove" that the freedom pass which was allegedly used/misused on these various other eighty occasions was actually used by the legitimate owner of the pass? If so, how?

 

[6Gman]

Indeed. In addition, is it possible to "prove" that the freedom pass which was allegedly used/misused on these various other eighty occasions was actually used by the legitimate owner of the pass? If so, how?

Difficult for the OP; easier for TfL if they have been reviewing CCTV over the period.

They probably haven't, but no way of knowing.

 

[30907]

Thanks for replying, though it would still help if you would upload the papers.

Without those, I assume you are being prosecuted for one offence but invited to have another 80 offences "taken into consideration." Apologies if I've misunderstood.

If you plead guilty the process should be straightforward AIUI, and a couple of contributions in the thread from berne08 may help. Make sure you give correct information about your income, as that will probably reduce the fine from the court.

PS If English isn't your first language, see if you can find someone to talk to face-to-face -

 

[Chantal]

Hi guys yesterday was my hearing , all I can say, it’s the worst experience i have ever had , don’t argue with judges , I plead guilty for all of them(otherwise it will end up stretching ur case and you need to attend the court again and the fee will be more ) . there were about 1 person in the middle I guessed she’s the judge and 3 other people next to her who were telling me to stand up/ sit down. They asked me why I have to evade the fare? What made me to use the freedom pass ? You need stronger evidence if you don’t plead guilty , and there’s no point to tell them you are on Benifits , they will still deduct money from your benefit to pay of the charges they read out to you . You have to sign the declaration form to state your incomings and outgoings earnings .. depends on that they will actually charge you . You will have time to pay them in instalments or all in one go

There were about more than 40 people for 10 clock appointments including myself , so I ended up staying there till 6 pm , you must ensure u go there with drinks or food , you never know what time you come out , afternoon appointments am sure they had to cancell .
My advise to people , please please touch in and out when you are in bus or train don’t try to save money , I have seen the hearing as little as £1.65 and the women had to pay £200+ the tax + court fee etc ..
never ever repeat , pay what is suppose to pay and leave peacefully rest of your life ..

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi guys yesterday was my hearing , all I can say, it’s the worst experience i have ever had , don’t argue with judges , I plead guilty for all of them(otherwise it will end up stretching ur case and you need to attend the court again and the fee will be more ) . there were about 1 person in the middle I guessed she’s the judge and 3 other people next to her who were telling me to stand up/ sit down. They asked me why I have to evade the fare? What made me to use the freedom pass ? You need stronger evidence if you don’t plead guilty , and there’s no point to tell them you are on Benifits , they will still deduct money from your benefit to pay of the charges they read out to you . You have to sign the declaration form to state your incomings and outgoings earnings .. depends on that they will actually charge you . You will have time to pay them in instalments or all in one go

There were about more than 40 people for 10 clock appointments including myself , so I ended up staying there till 6 pm , you must ensure u go there with drinks or food , you never know what time you come out , afternoon appointments am sure they had to cancell .
My advise to people , please please touch in and out when you are in bus or train don’t try to save money , I have seen the hearing as little as £1.65 and the women had to pay £200+ the tax + court fee etc ..
never ever repeat , pay what is suppose to pay and leave peacefully rest of your life ..

Thanks for letting us know what happened. I think we'd all agree with your last sentence!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi guys yesterday was my hearing , all I can say, it’s the worst experience i have ever had , don’t argue with judges , I plead guilty for all of them(otherwise it will end up stretching ur case and you need to attend the court again and the fee will be more ) . there were about 1 person in the middle I guessed she’s the judge and 3 other people next to her who were telling me to stand up/ sit down. They asked me why I have to evade the fare? What made me to use the freedom pass ? You need stronger evidence if you don’t plead guilty , and there’s no point to tell them you are on Benifits , they will still deduct money from your benefit to pay of the charges they read out to you . You have to sign the declaration form to state your incomings and outgoings earnings .. depends on that they will actually charge you . You will have time to pay them in instalments or all in one go

There were about more than 40 people for 10 clock appointments including myself , so I ended up staying there till 6 pm , you must ensure u go there with drinks or food , you never know what time you come out , afternoon appointments am sure they had to cancell .
My advise to people , please please touch in and out when you are in bus or train don’t try to save money , I have seen the hearing as little as £1.65 and the women had to pay £200+ the tax + court fee etc ..
never ever repeat , pay what is suppose to pay and leave peacefully rest of your life ..

Thanks for sharing the experience - clearly not a pleasant one - as not everyone would have done that, so credit to you on that front. Good luck for the future.

 

[30907]

Could I ask - to help future readers - what was the actual law you were charged under (the bit that starts something like "contrary to...."). That would be a real help!

 

[island]

there were about 1 person in the middle I guessed she’s the judge

That would be the legal advisor

and 3 other people next to her who were telling me to stand up/ sit down.

Those would be the magistrates who decide on guilt and issue sentences.

 

[Haywain]

That would be the legal advisor

Those would be the magistrates who decide on guilt and issue sentences.

For people who are unfamiliar with the courts, is there no explanation of who's who when they attend?

 

[AstowJ]

For people who are unfamiliar with the courts, is there no explanation of who's who when they attend?

I've been a witness in a GBH case and there was no sort of introductions, thought I recognise I was not integral to the case.

 

[Llanigraham]

For people who are unfamiliar with the courts, is there no explanation of who's who when they attend?

If they ask the question before they go into Court then an explanation will be given, but most people don't ask.

 

[Elwyn]

For anyone who expects to have to attend court, either as a witness or as the accused, you can go to the relevant court a few weeks before your case and sit in the public gallery. Watch that day's proceedings. It’s usually helpful. Court staff (when they are free) will answer questions about how it all works. There are also charities that help folk who are nervous about appearing in court, by giving them guidance. That way you can be better prepared for your actual day in court.

All courts have a court office where you go to file papers, pay fees & fines etc. The staff there are usually very helpful.

 

[Haywain]

If they ask the question before they go into Court then an explanation will be given, but most people don't ask.

I guess there will be plenty of 'visitors' who find it all quite familiar but it will be intimidating for those who don't know. Good to know that those who ask are given some guidance.

 

[philthetube]

For anyone who expects to have to attend court, either as a witness or as the accused, you can go to the relevant court a few weeks before your case and sit in the public gallery. Watch that day's proceedings. It’s usually helpful. Court staff (when they are free) will answer questions about how it all works. There are also charities that help folk who are nervous about appearing in court, by giving them guidance. That way you can be better prepared for your actual day in court.

All courts have a court office where you go to file papers, pay fees & fines etc. The staff there are usually very helpful.

It can also be entertaining.

 

[pitdiver]

I can assure those who haven't experienced being a witness in a court case it is a harrowing experience. I have been in that situation twice. Once at the Old Bailey and once at my local Crown Court.
The Old Bailey case was many years ago whereas the Crown Court experience was only a couple of years ago. The latter I was a prosecution witness against my late stepson. Due to a technicality the case was adjourned. But the case was eventually dropped due to me withdrawing my statement as it was going to be another 18 months before the next court hearing. Strangely 3 days before the date that the case was originally scheduled for he was found deceased under strange circumstances. I still don't know to this day if he was made aware that the case had been dropped.

 

[WesternLancer]

I can assure those who haven't experienced being a witness in a court case it is a harrowing experience. I have been in that situation twice. Once at the Old Bailey and once at my local Crown Court.
The Old Bailey case was many years ago whereas the Crown Court experience was only a couple of years ago. The latter I was a prosecution witness against my late stepson. Due to a technicality the case was adjourned. But the case was eventually dropped due to me withdrawing my statement as it was going to be another 18 months before the next court hearing. Strangely 3 days before the date that the case was originally scheduled for he was found deceased under strange circumstances. I still don't know to this day if he was made aware that the case had been dropped.

Most (all?) rail ticket issues at court must be dealt with at magistrates court I assume. Is that significantly different?

 

[Haywain]

Most (all?) rail ticket issues at court must be dealt with at magistrates court I assume. Is that significantly different?

Referring back to post #9, it would appear that was quite intimidating.

 

[AlterEgo]

Most (all?) rail ticket issues at court must be dealt with at magistrates court I assume. Is that significantly different?

Yes it is significantly different. A Crown Court is a much more formal and intimidating place than a magistrates court, although neither are nice places and still very formal compared to “outside life”.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Hi guys yesterday was my hearing , all I can say, it’s the worst experience i have ever had , don’t argue with judges , I plead guilty for all of them(otherwise it will end up stretching ur case and you need to attend the court again and the fee will be more ) . there were about 1 person in the middle I guessed she’s the judge and 3 other people next to her who were telling me to stand up/ sit down. They asked me why I have to evade the fare? What made me to use the freedom pass ? You need stronger evidence if you don’t plead guilty , and there’s no point to tell them you are on Benifits , they will still deduct money from your benefit to pay of the charges they read out to you . You have to sign the declaration form to state your incomings and outgoings earnings .. depends on that they will actually charge you . You will have time to pay them in instalments or all in one go

There were about more than 40 people for 10 clock appointments including myself , so I ended up staying there till 6 pm , you must ensure u go there with drinks or food , you never know what time you come out , afternoon appointments am sure they had to cancell .
My advise to people , please please touch in and out when you are in bus or train don’t try to save money , I have seen the hearing as little as £1.65 and the women had to pay £200+ the tax + court fee etc ..
never ever repeat , pay what is suppose to pay and leave peacefully rest of your life ..

If only you had replied with the information requested - the forum could have better prepared you for court.

Perhaps a lesson learned for those browsing; we need full, accurate and complete information to help.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Yes it is significantly different. A Crown Court is a much more formal and intimidating place than a magistrates court, although neither are nice places and still very formal compared to “outside life”.

Seconded

I had to give evidence for the prosecution in a case involving a family member (they were the victim not the accused)

The mags seemed more like an office setting, and the questioning seemed straightforward and not particularly adversarial

The accused was (rightly) convicted, and for reasons best known to her decided to appeal. The police liaison person described this as “absolutely insane”. The appeal was in crown court and was full wigs and gowns stuff. The barrister defending her was bloody awful, although I’m sure he’d say he was just doing his job. Anyway, appeal dismissed

 

[Llanigraham]

Most (all?) rail ticket issues at court must be dealt with at magistrates court I assume. Is that significantly different?

Physically, in some ways, yes, especially as the Magistrates aren't gowned and wigged, but in orddinary clothes, and only some of the Justice's Clerks wear gowns and wigs. (That could be why the OP thought he was a Judge)
The general layout of the Court is the same, and some are more impossing than others. I used to present in three different Courts and one of them (Worcester) was very dark, with a big "dock" and the Bench sat up high, bearing down on the accused below (and us prosecutors!).

 

[Egg Centric]

If they ask the question before they go into Court then an explanation will be given, but most people don't ask.

What I also find curious - and I have been a witness at a few court cases as well as prosecuted for drunken tomfoolery as a student - is no one tells you how to address the judge/mags/sheriff/whatever*. So you have to pick it up from the "pros" or just guess!

i.e. your worship, your honour, your royal highness....

 

[Elwyn]

What I also find curious - and I have been a witness at a few court cases as well as prosecuted for drunken tomfoolery as a student - is no one tells you how to address the judge/mags/sheriff/whatever*. So you have to pick it up from the "pros" or just guess!

i.e. your worship, your honour, your royal highness....

In many courts there’s note on the shelf in the witness box telling you how to address the person hearing the case. Sometimes the usher will tell you too, as he/she guides you to the witness box.