Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[londonteacher]

Currently an Enviro 400 MMC running on the 166 laying over at Chatham bus station. Not the heritage livery one. Currently tracking as the spare ticket machine - is this a permanent transfer to Gillingham or is it on its way to Maidstone like the recent transfers in?

 

[duncombec]

Currently an Enviro 400 MMC running on the 166 laying over at Chatham bus station. Not the heritage livery one. Currently tracking as the spare ticket machine - is this a permanent transfer to Gillingham or is it on its way to Maidstone like the recent transfers in?

I was going to thank you for the message I read at a very convenient moment and have just been out and photographed* it... but not the one tracking as the spare machine! There is then, seemingly another tracking as withdrawn E200 4006. Fingers crossed they don't get swapped before lunchtime!

From the fleetnumber of the one I've just seen, they are those pencilled in for Gillingham (the others are in the 653x series, and this looked to be 655x).

*badly. The sun is not my friend when I've only got limited time to pick a position and don't trust a gap in cars for a cross-road shot!

 

[londonteacher]

I was going to thank you for the message I read at a very convenient moment and have just been out and photographed* it... but not the one tracking as the spare machine! There is then, seemingly another tracking as withdrawn E200 4006. Fingers crossed they don't get swapped before lunchtime!

From the fleetnumber of the one I've just seen, they are those pencilled in for Gillingham (the others are in the 653x series, and this looked to be 655x).

*badly. The sun is not my friend when I've only got limited time to pick a position and don't trust a gap in cars for a cross-road shot!

That makes sense. I’m glad Gillingham is getting some extra double deckers as the capacity is definitely needed in peak times!

Do you know if any more are expected?

 

[duncombec]

That makes sense. I’m glad Gillingham is getting some extra double deckers as the capacity is definitely needed in peak times!

Do you know if any more are expected?

We know that an unconfirmed number are due for Gillingham and Maidstone, which should see a substantial cull of the 64xx B7TLs and possibly also some of the rather ill-fated (and already rather elderly) 61xx Volvos that came from Leicester in the previous shuffle.

There appears to be a shortage of 'deckers at Gillingham lately, perhaps because of issues surrounding the venerable age of the current stock - believed to be among the oldest still in service with Arriva. There are, as far as I know, no plans for "extra" over the allocation that should be there.

 

[londonteacher]

substantial cull of the 64xx B7TLs

Will be a shame to lose these! Reminds me of my university days in Merseyside.

The Volvos appear to be in worse condition from riding on them yesterday. Lots of rust internally! But I suppose mechanically they are probably both the same!

 

[duncombec]

Will be a shame to lose these! Reminds me of my university days in Merseyside.

The Volvos appear to be in worse condition from riding on them yesterday. Lots of rust internally! But I suppose mechanically they are probably both the same!

"Spare GM" was "old" 6441 - the new vehicle was tracking as 4006, and is 6557. As it's towards the end of the expected batch, my feeling is it'll stay at Gillingham.

The launch of those Volvos was the first real bus event I went to, half my life ago (literally). It's hard to think that at that time, 18-year-old buses had already left the fleet (given they were first generation van-derived minibuses), and when I first got interested in buses, 18-year-old vehicles were Bristol VRTs... and not the newest, either! We can't say they haven't been sweated!

 

[Andy Pacer]

We know that an unconfirmed number are due for Gillingham and Maidstone, which should see a substantial cull of the 64xx B7TLs and possibly also some of the rather ill-fated (and already rather elderly) 61xx Volvos that came from Leicester in the previous shuffle.

There appears to be a shortage of 'deckers at Gillingham lately, perhaps because of issues surrounding the venerable age of the current stock - believed to be among the oldest still in service with Arriva. There are, as far as I know, no plans for "extra" over the allocation that should be there.

Should be a neat split of 14 E400MMCs for each, the first 14 for Maidstone and the last 14 for Gillingham.
And quite right, the ALX400s are due to be replaced along with 6141/3/8/9/52 although, as always, specific numbers could change.

 

[A0]

The 331 is the one that surprises me there. That route has always been well loaded when I have used it (including last Saturday on one of my occasional trips back to my old stomping grounds in Hertfordshire). Buntingford has doubled in size in the last twenty years and become mildly fashionable.

If they want it, I'd see Richmond (Barley) as the most likely to take the route on. They already operate the service between Buntingford and Royston (passing their garage in Barley), which was part of the 331 route for a time and could perhaps be recombined with it. Maybe they could drop Hertford, since Buntingford folk mostly go to Ware and there are plenty of other buses between Ware and Hertford anyway.

There is an update on https://www.intalink.org.uk/march-2023

331 Hertford to Buntingford
Arriva
Arriva will continue running the service, there will be no changes to the operator or timetable.
From 26.03.23

Others that were surrendered are still showing as "replacement being sought to provide continuity of service.", except the 390 Hertford to Stevenage which is passing to Centrebus.

 

[Ghost_wolf776]

I believe they're deckers so probably not most of those suggested. Probably a case of wait and see what happens when the time comes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2022 ==


Does this mean there are now two sites in Blyth?

No the old depot building is being fully demolished for them to utilize the surrounding land to form a larger storage yard.

 

[Snex]

No the old depot building is being fully demolished for them to utilize the surrounding land to form a larger storage yard.

There is a temporary depot currently though where buses are stored during the works.

Don't think anyone really knows the plans yet though as there's electric buses which need charging space and I doubt it'll be Blyth as the new depot plans are extremely tight for them but at the same time there's too many singles if the X7/X8/X9/51/52/53/54 are all based at Blyth, there's only space for 15 singles (20 or so buses needed) in the plans.

 

[sonic2009]

Latest News - Arriva UK Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

Proposed consultation to close Winsford and Macclesfield depot in the North West and withdrawing from the area.

Arriva North West has announced that it is consulting with affected employees on a proposal to close its Winsford and Macclesfield depots. The move, if confirmed, would see the shutting of the depots with Arriva unfortunately no longer operating any bus services in the Winsford, Northwich, Crewe and Macclesfield areas.

Both depots have been loss-making since before the pandemic and the number of journeys taken by passengers in the areas served by the depots has not recovered to the same levels as comparable operations following the pandemic. This is alongside the bus sector facing sustained and significant cost inflation meaning that revenue from the operations doesn’t cover the costs of running the operations.

Arriva North West has undertaken extensive actions to try and turn around these challenges, including launching a largely new network in November 2021 but unfortunately these steps have not delivered the required improvement.

Arriva North West has worked closely with Cheshire East and Cheshire West councils to explore all options to avoid closures but regretfully has not been able to find a way forward to return the depots to a financially sustainable position. In addition to this, while Bus Service Improvement Plans were developed to bid for government support to help increase bus ridership, unfortunately both Cheshire West and Cheshire East were unsuccessful in securing funding.

Affected employees and stakeholders have now been notified that a consultation is underway on closing the sites.

Please remember to provide a relevant quote from any articles you link to - Mod

 

[L401CJF]

Proposed consultation to close Winsford and Macclesfield depot in the North West and withdrawing from the area.

A friend and former colleague of mine is a driver at Winsford depot. They have just had a meeting with higher management who say unless they source some miracle funding (unlikely), the depots will close on 22nd April.

 

[sonic2009]

A friend and former colleague of mine is a driver at Winsford depot. They have just had a meeting with higher management who say unless they source some miracle funding (unlikely), the depots will close on 22nd April.

Wow! I had a feeling something was going to happen, but that's not much time to find some funding.

 

[station_road]

Proposed consultation to close Winsford and Macclesfield bus depot and withdraw from many routes.

Some of these routes must be capable of making a profit, you would think - particularly as most don't have any evening or Sunday services.

The only possible chanc of saving them seems to be if D&G and/or High Peak could take over, although I suspect that would mean that where routes are duplicated there would be cuts (38 between Crewe and Macclesfield, maybe the 6 between Crewe and Shavington). D&Gs depot at Crewe doesn't seem to have much space for additional vehicles either.

A spokesperson for Arriva North West Bus said:

“It is with great regret we announce we are consulting our highly valued team on the closure of our Winsford and Macclesfield depots which, if confirmed, would mean we would no longer operate any bus services in the Winsford, Northwich, Crewe and Macclesfield areas.

Routes that will no longer operate
84 Crewe - Nantwich/Chester
6 Leighton Hospital - Shavington
31 Northwich - Winsford - Crewe
37 Northwich - Winsford - Sandbach - Crewe
38 Crewe - Macclesfield
7 Winsford Local Circular
1 Northwich Circular via Rudheath and Weaverham
4 Barnton to Leftwich and Kingsmead via Northwich
3 Macclesfield - Weston
4 Macclesfield - Upton Priory
5 & 6 Macclesfield - Broken Cross
9 Macclesfield - Moss Rose
10 Macclesfield - Bollington

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/north-west-depots

 

[Simon75]

Proposed consultation to close Winsford and Macclesfield depot in the North West and withdrawing from the area.

Doesn't surprise me, as there has been rumours for years of closure/sale.
Wonder if D&G would takeover ?

 

[Danfilm007]

Some of these routes must be capable of making a profit, you would think - particularly as most don't have any evening or Sunday services.

The only possible chanc of saving them seems to be if D&G and/or High Peak could take over, although I suspect that would mean that where routes are duplicated there would be cuts (38 between Crewe and Macclesfield, maybe the 6 between Crewe and Shavington). D&Gs depot at Crewe doesn't seem to have much space for additional vehicles either.


https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/north-west-depots

Good job there's two depots potentially available...

 

[sonic2009]

Doesn't surprise me, as there has been rumours for years of closure/sale.
Wonder if D&G would takeover ?

D&G or Stagecoach possibly

 

[markymark2000]

Good job there's two depots potentially available...

I could see D&G and High Peak setting up a combined depot in Macclesfield to cut down on dead mileage for a variety of services.

Wincham outstation could become a full depot for Northwich local routes and maybe one of the interurban routes.

 

[station_road]

Good job there's two depots potentially available...

There are, but neither of them close to Crewe which is one of the main passenger markets in the area - dead running of a number of buses everyday between Winsford depot and Crewe can't help profitablity

 

[markymark2000]

Some of these routes must be capable of making a profit, you would think - particularly as most don't have any evening or Sunday services

A lot of routes are capable of making money but then it comes down to how the depot costs are spread out and also depends on smart accounting. If the depot makes £300,000 profit but then big Arriva headquarters charge £500,000 in consultancy fees and logo use etc, the depot is loss making.

 

[Simon75]

I could see D&G and High Peak setting up a combined depot in Macclesfield to cut down on dead mileage for a variety of services.

Wincham outstation could become a full depot for Northwich local routes and maybe one of the interurban routes.

Winsford is a fair size though (not sure on the allocation), Witcham could close and move there/Macclesfield

The current Macclesfield outstation needs modernising , not sure where else in town would fit a depot

 

[Redmike]

A friend and former colleague of mine is a driver at Winsford depot. They have just had a meeting with higher management who say unless they source some miracle funding (unlikely), the depots will close on 22nd April.

Rather ironic given that weekend the Manchester museum of transport will be commemorating 100 years since the North Western Road car company was founded. The majority of these routes were North Western routes (pre 1972) with the rest originating from Crosville.

Arriva have been running down services over recent years with former core routes like the 130 reduced and then eventually withdrawn.

 

[K219UHA]

Arriva Midlands, Oswestry depot proposed closure too, sad times: source Arriva: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/oswestry-depot

Arriva Consults Employees on Closing Oswestry Depot​

Arriva Consults Employees on Closing Oswestry Depot​

• Customer journeys largely unaffected
• Contracted school services expected to transfer to new operators if the proposal is confirmed
Arriva has announced that it is consulting with employees on closing its Oswestry depot.
The move, if confirmed, would see the shutting of the depot with customer journeys largely unaffected with the main bus routes operated from the Oswestry site transferring across to Arriva’s Shrewsbury and Wrexham depots.
The loss-making Oswestry depot has been hit hard by the change of travel behaviours following the pandemic with Arriva’s bus users in Shropshire taking just 54% of journeys travelled prior to the pandemic. This post-pandemic recovery is far below national trends and comes alongside a challenging combination of significant industry-wide cost inflation and funding support from the local authority falling significantly below the levels provided by other councils to reimburse “concessionary travel” meaning bus services have been operating at a sustained operating loss.
In addition to this, while a Bus Service Improvement Plan was developed in partnership with Shropshire Council to bid for government support to help increase bus ridership, unfortunately the Plan was unsuccessful in securing funding.
Despite extensive interventions to attempt to boost passenger numbers, including extensive engagement with Shropshire Council to address the situation, regretfully it has not been possible to return the depot to a financially sustainable operation and affected employees have been notified of the consultation to close the Oswestry site.
If the proposal goes ahead, Arriva will cease to operate some local contracted bus services in the area and is in dialogue with the local authority with the expectation that a new operator would take on these contracted services from May.
Affected employees have now been notified that a consultation is underway on closing the site.
“We are saddened to announce today that we are consulting with our valued employees about the closure of our Oswestry depot.
“While there would be very limited impact on customer journeys, closing depots is not a decision we take lightly and this only follows sustained and extensive interventions to attempt to turn around the losses in Shropshire.
“Our priority throughout this process is that everything runs as smoothly as possible, for both our customers and our high valued team.
“If the proposal goes ahead, Arriva will work with Shropshire Council and any new operators as school routes transition to new suppliers, with any changes to school services not expected until May.”
Arriva runs the following contracted bus services on behalf of Shropshire Council which, if the proposal is confirmed, are expected to transfer to a new operator:
• 449 Oswestry – Welshampton
• 54 Oswestry - Cefn Y Blodwel
• 71 Oswestry - Four Crosses
• 79a Oswestry – Porth-Y-Waen
• 405 Oswestry – Windsor Road

 

[daodao]

The imminent closure of Arriva's Oswestry, Macclesfield and Winsford depots, and the previous withdrawal from Cannock/Burton-on-Trent, significantly reduces Arriva's activity in West Mercia (Cheshire/Shropshire/Staffordshire). The only depots left in this mainly rural area would be Shrewsbury, Tamworth and Telford.

Arriva is also likely to withdraw from Greater Manchester in the not too distant future; the presumed closure of the Bolton depot following implementation of the first phase of TfGM bus franchising in September 2023 could be followed by closure of the Wythenshawe depot. This small depot only services 4 main routes (19, 245, 247 and 263), plus the tendered Altrincham local services run with Mellor Stratas. If it doesn't close soon, it seems unlikely that Arriva would submit a successful bid for any part of TfGM's South Manchester bus franchise. Arriva North West would then become in essence Arriva Merseyside.

 

[M60lad]

Surely the local councils will have to step in and do something about the closure of Macclesfield and Winsford depots as the closure will cut a lot of links that people rely on to get them about. For one it will leave Winsford without any bus services and also, apart from the service D&G operates, it will leave some areas without a link to Leighton Hospital in Crewe.

 

[daodao]

Surely the local council's will have to step in and do something about the closure of Macclesfield and Winsford Depot's as the closure will cut a lot of links that people rely on to get them about, for one it will leave Winsford without any bus services and also apart from the service D&G operate it will leave some areas without a link to Leighton Hospital in Crewe.

There will probably be some sort of replacement for route 31, Northwich-Winsford-Leighton Hospital-Crewe, but probably not for many of the other interurban routes. D&G's route 38 already provides a service from Macclesfield to Crewe. Some (but not all) town routes in Macclesfield (in particular to Weston Estate) and Northwich might also be replaced.

 

[markymark2000]

Surely the local council's will have to step in and do something about the closure of Macclesfield and Winsford Depot's as the closure will cut a lot of links that people rely on to get them about, for one it will leave Winsford without any bus services and also apart from the service D&G operate it will leave some areas without a link to Leighton Hospital in Crewe.

Do you really have that much faith in Cheshire East to maintain a bus network? Their brain dead councillors have been killing the local bus network for years. Hundreds of people are carried each day on either school or works contracts which fully duplicate over the main bus network, all done because the council are too incompetent to work with other places to mix school, work and local service. The same council which as part of redevelopment is moving the bus station further away from the town centre so that the car park can be put in closer (Crewe). The same council who has continually refused to put in half decent conditions to tenders so passengers keep suffering a substandard service from local cowboys D&G. The same council who refuses to ask for money from new developments for bus service and infrastructure improvements so that new residents to the areas aren't reliant on cars. The same council who did huge cuts a few years ago which cut back almost all of their tenders and refused to work with neighbouring councils on cross border services. Cheshire East don't care about buses, they don't want them. They are a eyesore on what should be such a wealthy area for people with cars. Buses just attract commoners.
Rant over.

Point being, why does everyone jump to the fact all of the routes will be withdrawn and no one will step in. Give operators time to work out what they can run,. They have only just heard this announcement too, they need to see what resources they have available, what they can get before the end of April and see what they can make viable given their overheads. We've got D&G who will likely take some things on (Despite the fact people will see a reduction in quality and likely lead to larger cuts to the bus network in a few years when people decide they want a bus company who actually has social media to inform of issues and doesn't have a website made by primary school students). You've got Stagecoach who are in Chester and dabbling a little bit into Northwich (albeit they only have the 48 tender but they are still in the area). Warringtons Own Buses like saving the day normally, they could concoct something interworking with their CAT 9/9A services. There could even be some surprise entries that no one thinks about. At least 2 operators will, this morning, be looking at plans to see what they can take on viably. Come next week, maybe the week after, councils will have to start looking at emergency tenders for whatever isn't covered. If D&G do take on the work though like we think they will, Crewe depot is very busy already, Wincham doesn't have loads of space. The Centrebus group doesn't have loads of buses readily available for this sort of thing. D&G will have to undertake negotiations maybe on buying out Arriva, maybe on land for new depots, find new buses and at what cost will the new buses be etc etc. This could be lengthy and will all contribute into how much extra work D&G take on. Rather than all panicking about councils funding replacements, let's sit back, await the results of who will take on what commercially and then start shouting for covering whatever is left uncovered.

 

[F262YTJ]

What sad, sad news. Unfortunately Winsford and Macclesfield have been under threat for a few years. The destruction of the 130 route through constant tinkering and doing bits off until there was nothing less had hastened the demise.

Operational staff took a substantial pay cut 5 or 6 years ago to prevent this action long term. What a kick in the teeth to all concerned. I wish them the best for the future.

 

[childwallblues]

Stagecoach could could conceivably take on the 84 and run it from Chester. This depot is part of Ribble and has depots in Birkenhead (Rock Ferry). Liverpool and Preston and would have no problem in sourcing additional buses.

 

[RELL6L]

All very sad. Looks like the main Oswestry routes are going to be run from the other ends, ie Wrexham and Shrewsbury.

So why are Arriva not going to continue the 84 and run it themselves from Chester? I am pretty confident someone will run the 84, probably also the 31 and 37, D&G might slightly improve the 38 but that's already in place, maybe D & G or High peak will take on some of the Macclesfield locals but I would expect quite a reduction. Depends if existing are prepared to work elsewhere.