SWR Class 458 to be retained

[LUYMun]

ITV Meridian News at 6pm tonight has shown a Class 458 unit passing by the Hook landslip. Using catch-up, this can be seen at the 5 mins and 21 secs mark. I wonder when this was taken and where the 458 was going?

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-11-03/catch-up-itv-news-meridian-thames-valley

 

[py_megapixel]

ITV Meridian News at 6pm tonight has shown a Class 458 unit passing by the Hook landslip. Using catch-up, this can be seen at the 5 mins and 21 secs mark. I wonder when this was taken and where the 458 was going?

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-11-03/catch-up-itv-news-meridian-thames-valley

That seems to be a 450

 

[43096]

That seems to be a 450

At around 5:40 there is a 458.

 

[WizCastro197]

That seems to be a 450

Yes, it was a 450.

 

[Bumpkin]

That seems to be a 450

Yes, it was a 450.

The first shot does show a 450 but a second one later on does seem to show a 458. More than likely on its way to Bournemouth Depot for maintenance

 

[43096]

The first shot does show a 450 but a second one later on does seem to show a 458. More than likely on its way to Bournemouth Depot for maintenance

Possibly this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L25732/2023-02-10/detailed

@WarrenTManager might well know which unit(s) were involved.

 

[Mzzzs]

Could be a 458 as the dark orange looks to be lower than on the 450s.
I remember hearing something like the 458s and 455s are going to Bournemouth for something like c6 overhauls. But that could be bs.

 

[WarrenTManager]

It was 8524 going for C6 overhaul.

 

[fandroid]

It's always a middle cab on SWR, except for the 158/159s.

Any special reason why SWR guards on 458s can't use the end cab? Given the need to lock the corridor when occupying a middle cab, it would seem to be eminently sensible to change the practice. All middle cabs are end cabs temporarily relocated, so there doesn't seem to be a practical issue here.

 

[TEW]

Any special reason why SWR guards on 458s can't use the end cab? Given the need to lock the corridor when occupying a middle cab, it would seem to be eminently sensible to change the practice. All middle cabs are end cabs temporarily relocated, so there doesn't seem to be a practical issue here.

They can, but it's just not practical at many stations as you won't be able to see the full length of the train from there.

 

[DelW]

Any special reason why SWR guards on 458s can't use the end cab? Given the need to lock the corridor when occupying a middle cab, it would seem to be eminently sensible to change the practice. All middle cabs are end cabs temporarily relocated, so there doesn't seem to be a practical issue here.

They can, but it's just not practical at many stations as you won't be able to see the full length of the train from there.

At my local station, two sets of three monitors have been installed on the platform, both relaying pictures from platform cameras. Presumably these are to aid staff dispatching trains, and both sets are positioned near the middle of trains.

There won't necessarily be a set alongside a middle cab, since we get 4, 5, 8, 9, 10 and 12 coach trains. But in most cases they'll be nearer to those than to the rear cab.

 

[Goldfish62]

At my local station, two sets of three monitors have been installed on the platform, both relaying pictures from platform cameras. Presumably these are to aid staff dispatching trains, and both sets are positioned near the middle of trains.

Yes, at Clapham Junction, Richmond, Staines and Wokingham among others monitors are positioned where the middle cabs will stop so the guard can view them to see the ends of the train for despatch.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q25 1023 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q25 1023 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 1122 Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 1122 departure from Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ls2270]

Sorry…post deleted.

 

[Pep and co]

Realtime Trains | 5Q25 1023 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q25 1023 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 1122 Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 1122 departure from Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Would be double handy if it was making the return journey with either of 507/517?

 

[WarrenTManager]

Would be double handy if it was making the return journey with either of 507/517?

I don’t think they have 100mph axles fitted yet!

 

[CR165022]

Realtime Trains | 5Q25 1023 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q25 1023 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Clapham Yard on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q26 1122 Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q26 1122 departure from Clapham Yard to Widnes Transport Tech on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The unit going is 458505

 

[physics34]

The unit going is 458505

The class 50 was making a nice racket speeding through Watford

 

[Towers]

If the units are to be commonly run as 12 car, presumably there'll be plenty of locations where SDO will be required and so using the rearmost cab wouldn't be a possibility. Equally, it would be less than ideal to have no through access available, however that's the case on plenty of stock elsewhere including some intercity services operating with pairs of IETs or Voyagers, so it isn't completely outraegous!

 

[CR165022]

The unit going is 458505

something I have just noticed from watching my footage back, is that all of the seat covers had been removed from the ex 460 coach, any idea why?

 

[AM9]

If they replace all class 444s running on the Portsmouth Direct,* does this mean that the speed restriction through Buriton tunnel can be lifted?

* unless 23m vehicles are using the line on diversions

 

[43096]

something I have just noticed from watching my footage back, is that all of the seat covers had been removed from the ex 460 coach, any idea why?

Spares for the remaining vehicles?

 

[Siemens Staines]

something I have just noticed from watching my footage back, is that all of the seat covers had been removed from the ex 460 coach, any idea why?

The conversion at Widnes will see the ex-460 coach removed from the set and will presumably go for scrap, so bits removed as spares for those 458/5 units that are still in service?

 

[swt_passenger]

If they replace all class 444s running on the Portsmouth Direct,* does this mean that the speed restriction through Buriton tunnel can be lifted?

* unless 23m vehicles are using the line on diversions

It’s never really been stated officially that there’ll be no 444s at all used on the direct. There’s nowhere obvious to move them to now, as far as I can see. The problem, I feel, is the total rolling stock numbers were designed for a timetable that’s never likely to happen ie the 4 tph all day Portsmouth service with additional peak extras.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If they replace all class 444s running on the Portsmouth Direct,* does this mean that the speed restriction through Buriton tunnel can be lifted?

* unless 23m vehicles are using the line on diversions

No because 444s will always end up on planned diversions and so the risk of being in the identical cab as a 450 and forgetting it’s a 444 which is why the PSR was standardised remains.

 

[AM9]

No because 444s will always end up on planned diversions and so the risk of being in the identical cab as a 450 and forgetting it’s a 444 which is why the PSR was standardised remains.

But if the only likely reasons that a 444 would divert to the Portsmouth Direct route away from the SWML west of Woking are an engineering possession or an emergency diversion avoiding that stretch of the SWML. In those cases, it would be appropriate to issue restrictions for all trains (TSR or ESR respectively).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But if the only likely reasons that a 444 would divert to the Portsmouth Direct route away from the SWML west of Woking are an engineering possession or an emergency diversion avoiding that stretch of the SWML. In those cases, it would be appropriate to issue restrictions for all trains (TSR or ESR respectively).

No it wouldn’t be appropriate, rolling stock is either cleared on a line in the section appendix or not. A TSR or ESR is not appropriate as the risk of error would be too high.

Aside from diversions the 442s or indeed 458s were never going to replace all the existing stock on fast services, it was going to supplement the 444s to allow all fast services to be formed of trains with 2+2 seated rolling stock.

The Portsmouth Fast trains require 9 circuits, so the 458s aren’t going to cover all trains anyway as that would require 27/28 units to be in traffic every day.

 

[Doomotron]

If they replace all class 444s running on the Portsmouth Direct,* does this mean that the speed restriction through Buriton tunnel can be lifted?

* unless 23m vehicles are using the line on diversions

I was under the impression that they 458s were more to replace 450s than 444s...

 

[AM9]

No it wouldn’t be appropriate, rolling stock is either cleared on a line in the section appendix or not. A TSR or ESR is not appropriate as the risk of error would be too high.

Aside from diversions the 442s or indeed 458s were never going to replace all the existing stock on fast services, it was going to supplement the 444s to allow all fast services to be formed of trains with 2+2 seated rolling stock.

The Portsmouth Fast trains require 9 circuits, so the 458s aren’t going to cover all trains anyway as that would require 27/28 units to be in traffic every day.

OK, I didn't realise that there weren't enough 458s to cover all the fast diagrams.
Didn't a post upstream mention that the seats were 2+2 in the 458s, therefore the converted 4-car 100mph 458s would fit the bill for the fasts on the 105min Portsmouth direct services. Surely better to give the 175min Weymouth services the 444s with their end doors with the few spares to assist the Portsmouth runs.

 

[bramling]

OK, I didn't realise that there weren't enough 458s to cover all the fast diagrams.
Didn't a post upstream mention that the seats were 2+2 in the 458s, therefore the converted 4-car 100mph 458s would fit the bill for the fasts on the 105min Portsmouth direct services. Surely better to give the 175min Weymouth services the 444s with their end doors with the few spares to assist the Portsmouth runs.

The problem with the latter is there is, or at least was (*), a massive political issue with Portsmouth Direct users disliking the 450s, presumably mainly because of the 2+3 seating.

* I add this as a qualification, as I’m unsure if this is still a massive issue, or whether the bulk of the people who agitated when the 450s first appeared some years ago have now retired or now “work” from home.

Personally I have mixed views on this. I can get that the 450s aren’t great when all seats are occupied, and Portsmouth to London is a pretty long journey. However the flip side of the coin is that the extra capacity was valuable. I’ve done London to Portsmouth on a 450 and found the experience fine, but to be fair that was on a lightly loaded contra-peak 12-car, so not really the full experience.