British Airways 'shuttle' services

[Strathclyder]

...and to stay on the subject of the Shuttle, it was one Trident that recieved it, albeit not in service; one was retained for training purposes and it got reliveried: G-AWZK. This is the one which is currently at Manchester in BEA livery.

Interesting, cheers for that. I don't know why I had it in my head that more than one Trident had received it. May have been getting it mixed up with the One-Eleven tbh (a fair number of those received it).

Am glad that particular Trident survives nonetheless.

I'd agree that Landor was the best livery they had.

Hands down. One of my favourite airline liveries period. But maybe we should steer this particular tangent in the direction of a dedicated thread.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I must confess when I saw the title I was led to think of the transit that shuttles to A&B gates at Heathrow!

 

[dutchflyer]

Kind of surprised that even in the UK such ways of running planes were experienced. Must have been before the www allowed ´pricing to demand´ as way to fill the intake-coffins and spread the load-also good for staff planning.
A little on the mentioned original US-Eastern etc. I kind of recall (but have never used them myself-from a teacher english extolling about his trip to the then (60ies in 20th century) quite far and unthinkable USA (by boat, if I recall): there was no set time, but as soon as all seats were taken, the plane rolled off and the next came in (or at the gate beside, I guess), so in slack times the wait could be more as 1 hr if one just came after previous had left. But if you were one of the first to board-choose seat you were hence also among the first to get off and time is money over there. Yes, payment on board and no drinks/food what was in those times always included in airplane rides.
As the name of the general forum suggests its trains: same teacher also told that trains were dead in USA-only a very few ´commuter lines´ and the BUS by Greyhound and Trailways was the way common people went. Must have been before Amtrak was created. On major lines those buses had the same way of operating: full and off. But I guess payment for them was before boarding?!

 

[Speed43125]

Towards the end of the offering, maybe?. As a kid in the mid 80s I vaguely remember the ads were still putting boasting about providing an extra plane for a single passenger if needed. Example..

https://www.hatads.org.uk/catalogue/record/ef2b2603-5769-45b3-90d7-a66a73aa22fa

That 757 looks gorgeous, the silhouetted head appearing in a single window most of the way down the fuselage was clearly a well thought out bit of videography as well. Flying pencil or not I always find those birds to look so graceful


Back on topic, interestingly the 'SHUTTLE' Callsign and ICAO operator code SHT remain in use to this day on domestic services. I presume this originated from the actual Shuttle service? Having messed around with VATSIM for a few years I've come across it numerous times, but never actually made the connection to a (high profile) service from back in the day with that name.

 

[Cross City]

Landor was very much of it's time, looks very dated now but was classy at the time. I think the Negus livery is much more timeless.

 

[Lost property]

When the Shuttle was first introduced, there was indeed a back up aircraft, and crew positioned ready to operate if required. Revenue was collected, briefly, on board however this added to the time constraints when attempting to cater for a full, or near enough, load.

One of the (many) BA myths was that the Shuttle didn't make a profit !....

At peak holiday times, the BFS / GLA / EDI were always full.

Sometimes however, things didn't quite go according to plan...such as at MAN one morning when the Captain refused to depart until he had been served breakfast !....apparently, unbeknown to him at the time, on arrival at LHR, it transpired this would now be his last breakfast consumed c/o BA.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes however, things didn't quite go according to plan...such as at MAN one morning when the Captain refused to depart until he had been served breakfast !....apparently, unbeknown to him at the time, on arrival at LHR, it transpired this would now be his last breakfast consumed c/o BA.

As in he got sacked for it, or there was a major accident?

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That 757 looks gorgeous, the silhouetted head appearing in a single window most of the way down the fuselage was clearly a well thought out bit of videography as well. Flying pencil or not I always find those birds to look so graceful

Though I doubt that ad would work now. It had me screaming (in my head) that that was a disgrace in environmental terms when they could have just paid him five grand (say) to wait for the next one, saved money and saved the environmental impact of transporting one person in a whole 757. Or if he didn't take £5K, I'm sure someone else on the existing flight would have done.

 

[Lost property]

As in he got sacked for it, or there was a major accident?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2023 ==



Though I doubt that ad would work now. It had me screaming (in my head) that that was a disgrace in environmental terms when they could have just paid him five grand (say) to wait for the next one, saved money and saved the environmental impact of transporting one person in a whole 757. Or if he didn't take £5K, I'm sure someone else on the existing flight would have done.

There was no accident involved concerning his cessation of flying...he wasn't unique either...another got back to LGW one day to find this was, justifiably under the circumstances, also his last flight. Ironically, he didn't want to be late for his train it seemed.

 

[nlogax]

Though I doubt that ad would work now.

The whole concept doesn't work now. The past is well and truly a foreign country.

 

[Ex-controller]

Was the shuttle concept’s demise brought about by the advent of Easyjet? I remember the ads for their flights in the 1990s ((£29.99, the price of a pair of jeans) and it seemed revolutionary.

 

[gabrielhj07]

When did turn-up & go model end?

 

[najaB]

Was the shuttle concept’s demise brought about by the advent of Easyjet? I remember the ads for their flights in the 1990s ((£29.99, the price of a pair of jeans) and it seemed revolutionary.

I think it was more likely to be increased costs - especially fuel and crew - and a desire to maximise the investment in aircraft. What works when fuel is 10p a litre is ruinously expensive at £1.10 a litre.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When did turn-up & go model end?

That would have been when the security requirements changed and pre-booking became essential.

Up to that point, it's wasn't just turn up and go - you could even pay on board...!! They slipped up on that once when every member of the cabin crew thought someone else was doing the fares and most of the passengers walked off at the other end after a free flight...

 

[AdamWW]

That would have been when the security requirements changed and pre-booking became essential.

Up to that point, it's wasn't just turn up and go - you could even pay on board...!! They slipped up on that once when every member of the cabin crew thought someone else was doing the fares and most of the passengers walked off at the other end after a free flight...

I flew on domestic flights with BA long after the shuttle services ended and there was no requirement to show ID. So having to pre-book for security screening can't have actually been very useful.

I haven't flown with them for a while but their web site currently "advises" photo ID for domestic flights, whatever that means in practise. I was surprised last year not to have to show any ID for a flight between two Schengen countries.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I flew on domestic flights with BA long after the shuttle services ended and there was no requirement to show ID. So having to pre-book for security screening can't have actually been very useful.

The US does a form of background checking (I think based purely on travel patterns and other things in the booking record) as part of airport security. The UK doesn't, so ID isn't important, and indeed you'll find airport security in the UK never check it as a result; the same level of security is applied to everyone in the UK. Photo ID for domestic flights is thus a matter for the airline and is normally used for revenue protection purposes, i.e. to prevent the resale of tickets and to make name-changes a revenue stream.

I don't believe BA requires photo ID for domestic flights even now if you only take hand luggage. They may require it for hold bags because UK procedures are to ensure the bag being checked in is checked in by the same person as actually flies - there are other ways to achieve that but presenting photo ID when checking a bag and boarding is normally how it's done.

What you can't do is pass airport security without a boarding pass, so "pay on board" wouldn't work, but you could easily have a TVM just outside the security gates if you wanted, and if selling online just charge everyone the same. The reason that isn't done is that you make less money if you don't yield manage. Notably the reason why that is the case has nothing whatsoever to do with security based on the name on the boarding pass (because everyone is treated the same), but rather it's to avoid security being clogged up by whole families going to the gate to see one person off, and thus increasing the cost of doing it massively.

 

[nlogax]

I haven't flown with them for a while but their web site currently "advises" photo ID for domestic flights, whatever that means in practise. I was surprised last year not to have to show any ID for a flight between two Schengen countries.

Feels rather dependent on the airport to me. BA have never asked me for ID flying in either direction between Heathrow / LCY and Glasgow / Edinburgh. Any domestic flight I've boarded from Gatwick, different story entirely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Feels rather dependent on the airport to me. BA have never asked me for ID flying in either direction between Heathrow / LCY and Glasgow / Edinburgh. Any domestic flight I've boarded from Gatwick, different story entirely.

Is that because Gatwick mixes domestic and transit passengers in the same departure lounge? Heathrow does too to be fair, but it takes your photo on entering security and shows it at the gate to prove there's not been any boarding pass swapping, which would otherwise allow transit passengers to sneak into the UK.

 

[zero]

I wonder if the rules quietly changed after that?

You can still take 142kg of luggage on BA if you are flying business and have oneworld sapphire status or higher - 3x 32kg hold bags and 2x 23kg hand luggage, although one of them has to be backpack sized. Not sure if "core samples" are compact / dense enough to have 23kg fit in a laptop bag though?

Feels rather dependent on the airport to me. BA have never asked me for ID flying in either direction between Heathrow / LCY and Glasgow / Edinburgh. Any domestic flight I've boarded from Gatwick, different story entirely.

Is that because Gatwick mixes domestic and transit passengers in the same departure lounge? Heathrow does too to be fair, but it takes your photo on entering security and shows it at the gate to prove there's not been any boarding pass swapping, which would otherwise allow transit passengers to sneak into the UK.

island has just written a comprehensive post regarding this in this subforum.

 

[najaB]

You can still take 142kg of luggage on BA if you are flying business and have oneworld sapphire status or higher - 3x 32kg hold bags and 2x 23kg hand luggage

That's very heavy for hand luggage. I'm surprised that the limit is that high, considering that someone has to be able to lift it into the overhead (or it has to fit beneath the seat).

 

[zero]

That's very heavy for hand luggage. I'm surprised that the limit is that high, considering that someone has to be able to lift it into the overhead (or it has to fit beneath the seat).

Yes, it is unsafe to put so much weight in the overhead lockers. I occasionally bring some very heavy items on board BA flights (and other airlines with a 7kg limit) but my backpack fits under the seat in front, it doesn't look heavy so nobody ever notices.

 

[gabrielhj07]

You can still take 142kg of luggage on BA if you are flying business and have oneworld sapphire status or higher - 3x 32kg hold bags and 2x 23kg hand luggage

I thought it was only 2 x 32kg in the hold?

LHR-EDI in Club produces the following allowance:

 

[AlterEgo]

I thought it was only 2 x 32kg in the hold?

LHR-EDI in Club produces the following allowance:
View attachment 129027

“If you have Oneworld Sapphire status or higher”. You get an extra bag.

 

[gabrielhj07]

“If you have Oneworld Sapphire status or higher”. You get an extra bag.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I clearly don't have Sapphire status!

 

[edwin_m]

I'd have thought gold status would be heavier...

 

[Bald Rick]

but you could easily have a TVM just outside the security gates if you wanted, and if selling online just charge everyone the same. The reason that isn't done is that you make less money if you don't yield manage.

the tvm just outside the gate could still yield manage. Albeit most people carry a ‘tvm’ with them, ie a phone.

 

[Cloud Strife]

When did turn-up & go model end?

It still exists to a certain degree. I often see people turning up at Wrocław Airport and buying tickets for the next LOT/Lufthansa flights. Part of this is due to the lack of reliable alternatives for travelling from Wrocław to Warsaw, especially if you don't have a car. I have friends who do this occasionally for work purposes too, especially if they don't know when the meeting will end. A ticket is never more than roughly 120 pounds, so it's a far better option than the very unreliable PKP Intercity services.

Or perhaps an even better example: if you want to get to Gdańsk from Wrocław right now, the fastest way is to get a LOT ticket via WAW for 80 pounds (12:20-16:25) rather than waiting for the train at 12:36 which takes just under 5 hours. LOT usually have at least one 'fast' daily connection to each city as well: for instance, there are flights from WRO-KRK via WAW that take only 2:40, which is 30-40 minutes faster than most trains. It can be nearly impossible to get seat reservations on Sundays as well in Poland if you arrive at the station without a ticket, so the plane is a more sensible alternative.

 

[102 fan]

What were the staff like in the 80's, during the shuttle services, and in particular between Belfast and London?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2023 ==

As in he got sacked for it, or there was a major accident?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2023 ==



Though I doubt that ad would work now. It had me screaming (in my head) that that was a disgrace in environmental terms when they could have just paid him five grand (say) to wait for the next one, saved money and saved the environmental impact of transporting one person in a whole 757. Or if he didn't take £5K, I'm sure someone else on the existing flight would have done.

You're applying 21st Century environmental thinking to a time when the environment wasn't really talked about widely, or to be more precise, the government hadn't realised how many taxes or control it would give them.

 

[najaB]

You're applying 21st Century environmental thinking to a time when the environment wasn't really talked about widely, or to be more precise, the government hadn't realised how many taxes or control it would give them.

Hence why @Bletchleyite said that it wouldn't work today.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hence why @Bletchleyite said that it wouldn't work today.

Yep, exactly. It worked then, it definitely wouldn't now.