Trivia: Services with the most stations - which are not mandatory timing points - passed consecutively without calling?

[yorkie]

What I am looking for here is services which pass through station which are not mandatory timing points.

I am looking for examples where several such stations are passed through consecutively.

For example, from Derby a non-stop train to Birmingham will pass through Peartree and Willington (2) but then Burton is a timing point.

In the other direction a non-stop train from Derby to Sheffield will pass through Duffield and Belper (2) before reaching Chesterfield, which is a timing point.

There must be plenty with more than two, so your challenge is to find three or more consecutive stations passed through, which are not mandatory timing points.

(This isn't just for fun, there is a genuine reason why I'd like to know the answer ! )

 

[SuspectUsual]

Looks like six between Harlech and Barmouth on the Cambrian

 

[yorkie]

Looks like six between Harlech and Barmouth on the Cambrian

That is useful, thanks; is there a service that passes through all 6?

 

[SuspectUsual]

That is useful, thanks; is there a service that passes through all 6?

I've just re-read your question and my answer is, to be blunt, crap

They're all request stops, but none of them record a time on RTT etc, which is what I thought you were asking. Now I can see that isn't what you were asking

 

[NorthOxonian]

I've only had a cursory glance but I've found a four on RTT (Hadley Wood, New Barnet, Oakleigh Park, New Southgate). I'm sure there are plenty of others on the ECML that do this.

 

[yorkie]

I've only had a cursory glance but I've found a four on RTT (Hadley Wood, New Barnet, Oakleigh Park, New Southgate). I'm sure there are plenty of others on the ECML that do this.

As far as I can see, these stations appear to be mandatory timing points, or at least they are used as such and appear in relevant systems which show timing points.

 

[The Planner]

Recent addition of Berkswell scuppers it but you would have had four between International and Coventry. Kings Langley, Apsley and Hemel on the WCML. You could claim all the stations on the Trent Valley north of Nuneaton as none are mandatory, only junctions. You have got four between Bentley Heath and Tyseley.

 

[yorkie]

Recent addition of Berkswell scuppers it but you would have had four between International and Coventry. Kings Langley, Apsley and Hemel on the WCML. You could claim all the stations on the Trent Valley north of Nuneaton as none are mandatory, only junctions. You have got four between Bentley Heath and Tyseley.

That's useful, thanks.

Do Avanti insert non mandatory timing points into their schedules as a matter of routine? For example 1230 from Euston to Glasgow does not call at Tamworth but industry data does have Tamworth as a passing point. In contrast, some other stations are not.

 

[The Planner]

That's useful, thanks.

Do Avanti insert non mandatory timing points into their schedules as a matter of routine? For example 1230 from Euston to Glasgow does not call at Tamworth but industry data does have Tamworth as a passing point. In contrast, some other stations are not.

If its not mandatory and you arent doing anything there then there is no need to use it.

 

[yorkie]

Hmm it seems some do and some don't; the 1030 doesn't! So that train for example has Atherstone, Polesworth, Tamworth, Lichfield TV, Rugeley TV (5).

Can anyone beat 5?

Edit: I did wonder about Avanti services to Edinburgh, but Slateford is a timing point and that only leaves 4 consecutive stations which aren't (Kirknewton, Curriehill, Wester Hailes, Kingsknowe); further south Lockerbie does appear to be a mandatory timing point (or, if not mandatory, is a timing point in the data at least)

 

[The Planner]

Hmm it seems some do and some don't; the 1030 doesn't! So that train for example has Atherstone, Polesworth, Tamworth, Lichfield TV, Rugeley TV (5).

Can anyone beat 5?

In which data is Tamworth shown? The schedules in RTT doesnt have Tamworth as a mandatory time?

 

[yorkie]

In which data is Tamworth shown? The schedules in RTT doesnt have Tamworth as a mandatory time?

If you use something like CCLDB (call centre live departure boards) that shows it, for some Avanti services.

Also unless there was a bug, Trainsplit wouldn't give such results if specifying Tamworth as a passing point in advanced options, if it wasn't in the data as a timing point.

Clearly the data can include non mandatory timing points as passing points.

 

[louis97]

If you use something like CCLDB (call centre live departure boards) that shows it, for some Avanti services.

The data displayed there has additional timing points added in in a similar way to what RTT does.

 

[yorkie]

It seems this is a complex matter, but can anyone beat 5?

 

[The Planner]

There appears to be 8 on Merseyrail to Ormskirk, but are there any non stop trains?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2023 ==

Clearly the data can include non mandatory timing points as passing points.

In some cases its possible to do due to erroneus SRTs allowing passes at non mandatory stations.

 

[Watershed]

I imagine the most fruitful way of obtaining a definitive answer may be to look through section 2.1 of each region's TPRs.

In principle, trains are usually only intermediately timed at:

• Locations they stop at (whether to make a passenger call or for some other operational or timetabling purpose)
• Mandatory timing points
• Conditional timing points where they meet the condition for being timed (this would usually be if the train is taking a diverging route or is changing from Fast to Slow Lines etc.)

Whilst there's no rule against timing trains at other timing points than those listed above, in most cases there wouldn't be the Sectional Running Times (SRTs) to time them in that way.

I suspect that CCLDB is interpolating timings, as the locations you mention aren't ones where I would expect a non-stop train to be timed.

 

[louis97]

Birchwood to Deansgate has 7, I wouldn't count Manchester United FC but if you would its 8. Not sure if there are any trains that run fast Birchwood to Deansgate, TPE run fast Birchwood to Oxford Road on a Sunday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2023 ==

I suspect that CCLDB is interpolating timings, as the locations you mention aren't ones where I would expect a non-stop train to be timed.

It comes through from Darwin (via the CIS I think, as such it varies by the area you are in), it does a very poor job of it compared to RTT in some places.

 

[P Binnersley]

Aston to Four Oaks is five (Gravelly Hill, Erdington, Chester Road, Wylde Green & Sutton Coldfield). This is occasionally used by diverted Cross Country trains.

 

[louis97]

It seems this is a complex matter, but can anyone beat 5?

Cheshunt to Seven Sisters is 7 on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y27076/2023-02-13/detailed

 

[zwk500]

That's useful, thanks.

Do Avanti insert non mandatory timing points into their schedules as a matter of routine? For example 1230 from Euston to Glasgow does not call at Tamworth but industry data does have Tamworth as a passing point. In contrast, some other stations are not.

Next wednesday's 1230 off Euston has Tamworth's times in grey, and therefore that they have not been put in as a TIPLOC in the TPS schedule: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W98000/2023-02-14/detailed

The TPS export schedule will be showing ...Nuneaton, Amington Jn, Lichfield North Jn, Rugeley North Jn, Colwich, Stafford...

 

[ls2270]

Fareham to St Denys has 7 intermediate stations which are not mandatory timing points. GWR services run non stop through all seven.

 

[Magdalia]

Cheshunt to Seven Sisters is 7 on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y27076/2023-02-13/detailed

I'm not sure that I understand the question, but if 2H73 2243 Cambridge North-Liverpool Street is a legitimate answer then it is beaten by the following 1B43 2328 Stansted Airport-Liverpool Street, which appears on RTT to have no timing points between Harlow Town and Seven Sisters, but with 10 intermediate stations.

Realtime Trains | 1B43 2328 Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1B43 2328 departure from Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ls2270]

I'm not sure that I understand the question, but if 2H73 2243 Cambridge North-Liverpool Street is a legitimate answer then it is beaten by the following 1B43 2328 Stansted Airport-Liverpool Street, which appears on RTT to have no timing points between Harlow Town and Seven Sisters, but with 10 intermediate stations.

Realtime Trains | 1B43 2328 Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street | 14/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1B43 2328 departure from Stansted Airport to London Liverpool Street on 14/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This doesn’t qualify as Broxbourne and Cheshunt are both mandatory timing points.

 

[Magdalia]

This doesn’t qualify as Broxbourne and Cheshunt are both mandatory timing points.

Thanks. That confirms that I didn't understand the question!