Brighton Belle Restoration Project

[zwk500]

I did have a gander at the pics, I couldn't see an internal view of the driving cab but I wonder what's left of it? As you say, most of it is probably shot to bits. What's the score with bogies & wheelsets that have been sat for yonks, might they be capable of refurbishment I wonder?

You'll need an industrial supply of WD-40 as a starting point, I think! It also looked from some of the underside pics that some of the pipes and wires underneath had just been cut to fit the domestic wiring and plumbing.

 

[32475]

I last saw Car 89 about fifteen years ago and I remember thinking then what a sorry and corroded state it was in. Having said that, some heritage carriages have been rebuilt from a much worse state but only at great expense and time.
The seats from Car 89 had been taken out years ago and featured in the pub next door and if I remember correctly they were in ‘Bournemouth Blue’ moquette.

 

[nascar24]

It was on Ebay last week but now no longer available, i dont know if an offer has been made or it will be scrapped on site as mentioned?

 

[Ash Bridge]

It was on Ebay last week but now no longer available, i dont know if an offer has been made or it will be scrapped on site as mentioned?

Not sure if the link to the pub’s Facebook page will work, but it was posted on there 6 days ago that the gentleman that purchased the Pullman car cannot continue with the deal to remove it from the site and that he has sadly now put it up for sale again.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjbocDoqZD9AhUJh1wKHSdfC5gQtwJ6BAgcEAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fthelittlemillinn%2F&usg=AOvVaw0g42p5iucylNg1546eld3D

 

[WesternLancer]

It will be sad if this vehicle does not survive, given the wider 'cultural importance' of the Brighton Belle etc - but I doubt this location at the pub has been the best place for it over the last x years! It needs a big barn to get it under cover in.
Having seen the e-bay pics tho it does look in a ropey state to say the least, sadly.

I wonder how accurate the £40k removal cost estimate actually is.

 

[zwk500]

It will be sad if this vehicle does not survive, given the wider 'cultural importance' of the Brighton Belle etc - but I doubt this location at the pub has been the best place for it over the last x years! It needs a big barn to get it under cover in.
Having seen the e-bay pics tho it does look in a ropey state to say the least, sadly.

I really don't see that this vehicle is imperative to the story Brighton Belle given the presence of the entire Unit assembled by the 5BEL trust. The interior no longer resembles the train as it ran in any meaningful way, and perhaps the kindest thing to do is to send it off with a fond farewell.
You would do better to build a half-length mockup in a museum than to attempt to restore this carriage.

 

[WesternLancer]

I really don't see that this vehicle is imperative to the story Brighton Belle given the presence of the entire Unit assembled by the 5BEL trust. The interior no longer resembles the train as it ran in any meaningful way, and perhaps the kindest thing to do is to send it off with a fond farewell.
You would do better to build a half-length mockup in a museum than to attempt to restore this carriage.

In practical terms I am sure that is correct - but the 'romance of the Pullman' just isn't measured in practical terms!

One place who could really do the job well would be the Bluebell Carriage Restoration team - but I'm sure if they wanted it they would have done the deal with the peak district pub.

How many of the 6 driving vehicles still survive?

 

[zwk500]

In practical terms I am sure that is correct - but the 'romance of the Pullman' just isn't measured in practical terms!

Some element of practicality must enter into it otherwise the heritage movement will be unable to fund any further work, such as surviving in an increasingly difficult economic situation.

One place who could really do the job well would be the Bluebell Carriage Restoration team - but I'm sure if they wanted it they would have done the deal with the peak district pub.

They've got more stock than they can handle at the moment - their 4VEP lives off-site, and they don't have the funds to restore the more significant carriages they do own.

How many of the 6 driving vehicles still survive?

According to Wikipedia, of the 5 others the 5BEL trust have 2 of them, the VSOE have stored 2 of them (at least one at Barrow Hill) and one was destroyed in a fire.

If this car was in better condition, then it might have been of more interest to the 5BEL trust as this would have been the 4th of the 5 cars of Unit 2051. VSOE hold the last car of this unit, so they could have had a completely singular train.

 

[WesternLancer]

Some element of practicality must enter into it otherwise the heritage movement will be unable to fund any further work, such as surviving in an increasingly difficult economic situation.

They've got more stock than they can handle at the moment - their 4VEP lives off-site, and they don't have the funds to restore the more significant carriages they do own.

According to Wikipedia, of the 5 others the 5BEL trust have 2 of them, the VSOE have stored 2 of them (at least one at Barrow Hill) and one was destroyed in a fire.

If this car was in better condition, then it might have been of more interest to the 5BEL trust as this would have been the 4th of the 5 cars of Unit 2051. VSOE hold the last car of this unit, so they could have had a completely singular train.

Thanks - I do of course appreciate your points. Interesting that VSOE have 2 stored, I assume that is very long term store and I wonder what they intended to do with them. Given unlikely they envisaged recreating an EMU set.
I have to say that realistically Car 89 will probably not survive much longer surely.

I do look forward to seeing, and riding on, the 5Bel trust set. I hope this is not too far off.

 

[zwk500]

Thanks - I do of course appreciate your points. Interesting that VSOE have 2 stored, I assume that is very long term store and I wonder what they intended to do with them. Given unlikely they envisaged recreating an EMU set.

I understand they're stored as spares for their hauled carriages. Some have been converted for loco haulage, not sure how many, and then replaced as other more suitable vehicles for the VSOE became available. There has been quite a lot of swapping vehicles between the VSOE, Bluebell and 5BEL trust to get an authentic 5-car Belle rake. Including some triangular swaps (5BEL locates suitable vehicle for VSOE, VSOE donate loco-haul to BRPS, BRPS donate former Belle car to 5BEL).

I have to say that realistically Car 89 will probably not survive much longer surely.

Sadly, I agree. Could have been a good museum piece if it had managed to get under cover.

I do look forward to seeing, and riding on, the 5Bel trust set. I hope this is not too far off.

Hopefully. I've no idea where the restoration is at but organisationally they had been at quite an advanced stage prior to covid (media days, talks with NR about organising trial runs and certifications).

 

[WesternLancer]

I understand they're stored as spares for their hauled carriages. Some have been converted for loco haulage,

So VSOE converted the driving cars to loco haulage? I know they did that to some of the ex 5Bel intermediate carriages, but had no idea they intended to haul ex5Bel driving vehicles too. Seems a strange idea given nature of the VSOE trains.

 

[zwk500]

So VSOE converted the driving cars to loco haulage? I know they did that to some of the ex 5Bel intermediate carriages, but had no idea they intended to haul ex5Bel driving vehicles too. Seems a strange idea given nature of the VSOE trains.

I don't think they converted the driving cars, as they would need gangways fitting. I ghink they were kept more as spares donors and the intermediate cars were the converted ones.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't think they converted the driving cars, as they would need gangways fitting. I think they were kept more as spares donors and the intermediate cars were the converted ones.

Thanks, that makes sense - I wonder what condition the VSOE owned driving cars are in these days.

 

[GC class B1]

Thanks, that makes sense - I wonder what condition the VSOE owned driving cars are in these days.

I think the plan was for VSOE to use them as driving trailers for push pull operation with class 73.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think the plan was for VSOE to use them as driving trailers for push pull operation with class 73.

Thanks - makes sense. That would have been good to see in action if it had progressed!

 

[Deepgreen]

Having had a flick through the photos on the ebay listing the only items worth saving look to be the maker's plates and the oval window frames. Everything else is either not original or decayed to a very bad state.

I know they have to state it but it does amuse me that it's described, almost innocently, as "used"!

 

[zwk500]

I know they have to state it but it does amuse me that it's described, almost innocently, as "used"!

Only 3 Careful owners! Full service history available.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thank you for this. Fingers crossed for good news soon.

I had heard they were fitting a diesel engine along the lines of the GWR 769s to 'improve' its route availability. No, they're not - only joking!