Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[AJDesiro]

Unless the cuts predicate otherwise, if they are still mostly running in pairs the way to do it would be to have 1st in one unit and SP in the other, the latter saving you a steward.

While this is a great idea, it isn't done on voyagers when they're running in pairs, so unfortunately I feel this is highly unlikely. Tbf, I'd much rather they just scrap SP and go back to having relatively affordable first class fares.

 

[p.d87]

Neither 805/ 807 will offer standard premium according to Internal communication

 

[RailWonderer]

While this is a great idea, it isn't done on voyagers when they're running in pairs, so unfortunately I feel this is highly unlikely. Tbf, I'd much rather they just scrap SP and go back to having relatively affordable first class fares.

I wish.

These IETs will have a trolley and no buffet so the least they could do is give out complementary refreshments to first passengers and not charge them as SP does. Different case when ‘full meals’ are offered on a select few Pendolino services and full first is arguably worth the extra over SP (it never is In my opinion in the Avanti era).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish.

These IETs will have a trolley and no buffet so the least they could do is give out complementary refreshments to first passengers and not charge them as SP does. Different case when ‘full meals’ are offered on a select few Pendolino services and full first is arguably worth the extra over SP (it never is In my opinion in the Avanti era).

I'm fairly sure they are having a buffet.

 

[p.d87]

I wish.

These IETs will have a trolley and no buffet so the least they could do is give out complementary refreshments to first passengers and not charge them as SP does. Different case when ‘full meals’ are offered on a select few Pendolino services and full first is arguably worth the extra over SP (it never is In my opinion in the Avanti era).

That's not true. Similar style buffets to Lner are being fitted to both 805 and 807 trains. A similar size kitchen to LNER will be on 807 with a smaller galley style on 805.

 

[RailWonderer]

That's not true. Similar style buffets to Lner are being fitted to both 805 and 805 trains. A similar size kitchen to LNER will be on 807 with a smaller galley style on 805.

I didn’t know that. I read the articles and press releases and didn’t read anything about a buffet, plus the EMR ones won’t have one (although those will have shorter coaches).

 

[Liverpool 507]

I wish I could understand the new obsession with painting the front ends of trains black. These IETs look horrendous in my opinion.

I think they look better with black and blue fronts than yellow. More stylish in my opinion.

I think judgement needs to be reserved until the actual livery has been applied. No train looks good in plain white.

Agreed, they're identical to the TPE 802s before Stewart Signs applied the livery.

 

[800001]

I didn’t know that. I read the articles and press releases and didn’t read anything about a buffet, plus the EMR ones won’t have one (although those will have shorter coaches).

You can clearly see where the buffet will be on the 2nd carriage from the pictures of the 805 out on test. (greyed out windows)

See attached photo with cafe bar circled in red.

 

[RailWonderer]

You can clearly see where the buffet will be on the 2nd carriage from the pictures of the 805 out on test. (greyed out windows)

See attached photo with cafe bar circled in red.

I saw that but I thought it was a toilet (other trains have greyed out windows for toilets). I hope Avanti will improve their buffet offering, the current Pendolino one is mediocre.

 

[AJDesiro]

I saw that but I thought it was a toilet (other trains have greyed out windows for toilets). I hope Avanti will improve their buffet offering, the current Pendolino one is mediocre.

80Xs are rather odd (imo) when it comes to toilets, they are located at the extreme end of the carriage, opposite the saloon with the exterior doors sandwiched between, hence the large gap between the door and carriage end, the doors on the driving carriages are even further away too, for accessible toilets. As can be seen from the images, there is nothing but plain metal in those areas externally.

 

[800001]

80Xs are rather odd (imo) when it comes to toilets, they are located at the extreme end of the carriage, opposite the saloon with the exterior doors sandwiched between, hence the large gap between the door and carriage end, the doors on the driving carriages are even further away too, for accessible toilets. As can be seen from the images, there is nothing but plain metal in those areas externally.

Not on the 810s for EMR they are not, they are opposite. (I know this is Avanti post)

 

[AJDesiro]

Not on the 810s for EMR they are not, they are opposite. (I know this is Avanti post)

Interesting, but they are being built as a separate product from the 80X, hence the TOPS classification 810, as opposed to 80X.

 

[800001]

Interesting, but they are being built as a separate product from the 80X, hence the TOPS classification 810, as opposed to 80X.

Fully aware of that! Was just saying that they have changed their design location.

 

[Meerkat]

80Xs are rather odd (imo) when it comes to toilets, they are located at the extreme end of the carriage, opposite the saloon with the exterior doors sandwiched between, hence the large gap between the door and carriage end, the doors on the driving carriages are even further away too, for accessible toilets. As can be seen from the images, there is nothing but plain metal in those areas externally.

Aren't the doors further in than normal due to the extreme length of the 80x and the end space is best used for toilets etc?

 

[43096]

Interesting, but they are being built as a separate product from the 80X, hence the TOPS classification 810, as opposed to 80X.

I think you're putting far too much store by a different class number. By that theory, Class 717 would be very different to Class 700 or 707.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aren't the doors further in than normal due to the extreme length of the 80x and the end space is best used for toilets etc?

Exactly that, yes. It's a narrower space (due to taper of the long vehicles) and would only fit 2+1 seats with no window view, so better use of it is made for toilets and bicycles.

 

[Mikey C]

Exactly that, yes. It's a narrower space (due to taper of the long vehicles) and would only fit 2+1 seats with no window view, so better use of it is made for toilets and bicycles.

And a very similar door where the catering trolley is stored, one which I tried to open on a GWR 802 on Saturday, thinking it was the toilet!

 

[Snow1964]

They wont be in Avanti’s hands for a few months at least

And there is no guarantee Avanti will continue long enough to operate any, as the Avanti contract ends in 7 weeks and an extension/renewal or if someone else has still not been announced.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

And there is no guarantee Avanti will continue long enough to operate any, as the Avanti contract ends in 7 weeks and an extension/renewal or if someone else has still not been announced.

If we see them go to OLR would they still get the same livery (with the Avanti words missing obviously) or would it be likely we'd see a new one?

 

[AJDesiro]

If we see them go to OLR would they still get the same livery (with the Avanti words missing obviously) or would it be likely we'd see a new one?

It'd probably be similar to the southeastern/northern OLR's, same if not similar branding, only reason LNER was different is likely due to the Virgin brand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we see them go to OLR would they still get the same livery (with the Avanti words missing obviously) or would it be likely we'd see a new one?

Avanti is a generic brand - part of that generation of franchise awards was a requirement to come up with such a brand which can be transferred to the new operator, hence why it isn't plastered in F-in-circles. Most of those brands were generic geographical ones like GWR, but FirstGroup chose a non geographical one instead. That said, given the terrible reputation it has, a new brand may be sensible, we can but wait and see.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Avanti is a generic brand - part of that generation of franchise awards was a requirement to come up with such a brand which can be transferred to the new operator, hence why it isn't plastered in F-in-circles. Most of those brands were generic geographical ones like GWR, but FirstGroup chose a non geographical one instead. That said, given the terrible reputation it has, a new brand may be sensible, we can but wait and see.

I wouldn’t be surprised to just see the Avanti part ditched and West Coast retained with same branding and livery, though we’re veering dangerously into speculative territory now.

 

[hexagon789]

I wouldn’t be surprised to just see the Avanti part ditched and West Coast retained with same branding and livery, though we’re veering dangerously into speculative territory now.

LMS LMS LMS

(Gets shot down by Mods in a new record 2.7 secs...)

If we see them go to OLR would they still get the same livery (with the Avanti words missing obviously) or would it be likely we'd see a new one?

I suspect the same base livery. After all LNER did retain the base VTEC scheme and just changed the logos/branding.

 

[Mollman]

I think you're putting far too much store by a different class number. By that theory, Class 717 would be very different to Class 700 or 707.

The reason EMR's are 810 is due to the shorter length, current IEP derived products have a generic stop marker labeled as '80X'.

 

[Duncan-231192]

221s don't ride badly, not in the slightest. The only thing I can think of that rides *better* in the UK is 158s, which glide over bad track like it's not there - 70mph over jointed rail on the Far North with barely any movement at all was impressive.

The track between Driffield and Bridlington must be disastrous then, because 158's bounce over it like they're attempting to be Pacers. 70mph and the train feels like a penny farthing riding over cobble stones. Being a rail engineer with OCD, my mind forms all kind of images of disaster everytime I travel over that section. There're still no plans to renew the track there. I don't think its been touched since the immediate post war era. Maybe the odd spot sleeper replacement, but that it. I would love to know who keeps passing that section as servisable. I'm glad it isn't me, I would be embarrassed if I had to sign that off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2023 ==

I wouldn’t be surprised to just see the Avanti part ditched and West Coast retained with same branding and livery, though we’re veering dangerously into speculative territory now.

I would like to see Avanti, LNWR, and West Midland all come under one operator London Midland and Scottish Railway or London North Western Railway. There's no need to have such a fragmented railway. I also think Greater Anglia and C2C should come under LNER. LNER should absord Great Northern services, and Transpennine Express, and cross country Northern services should transfer to Cross Country Trains.

 

[43096]

I would like to see Avanti, LNWR, and West Midland all come under one operator London Midland and Scottish Railway or London North Western Railway. There's no need to have such a fragmented railway. I also think Greater Anglia and C2C should come under LNER. LNER should absord Great Northern services, and Transpennine Express, and cross country Northern services should transfer to Cross Country Trains.

There is absolutely no consistency to this idea at all. Why would Manchester to Scotland via Preston services be under LNER, but Northern cross-pennine services under XC?

 

[Snow1964]

First Group media press release 10th Feb

• New fleet on course to enter service on the West Coast Main Line in 2023

fleet in service, in normal English means whole fleet, not part of them, let's see if all in service by 31st Dec 2023

10 Feb 2023
Avanti West Coast's new Hitachi trains make their first appearance on the West Coast Main Line.

• Key landmark achieved as the first newly built Avanti West Coast Hitachi train makes inaugural test run on the West Coast Main Line
• First two trains move to Alstom’s Oxley depot following two months of dynamic testing
• New fleet on course to enter service on the West Coast Main Line in 2023

The first of Avanti West Coast’s new fleet of Hitachi trains has made its first ever test run on the West Coast Main Line.
The class 805 bi-mode train, which can run under both electric and diesel power, undertook the 560-mile inaugural round trip from Alstom’s Oxley depot in Wolverhampton, from where the trains will be maintained after they enter service, to Glasgow Central.

This follows two months successful dynamic testing at Network Rail’s Rail Innovation and Development Centre (RIDC) at Melton Mowbray. During their time in Leicestershire the train’s basic functionality was checked, including the pantograph (which provides the connection to the overhead electric wires), Wi-Fi, onboard CCTV, coupling capabilities when running as a pair and the emergency lighting. Additional noise testing was undertaken both on the train and at lineside.

The two trains will now be put through their paces over the coming months, running up to their full speed of 125mph, with a view to clocking up thousands of miles of fault-free running. In addition, several new features for customers will be assessed including improved passenger information, seat reservation system, multiple running (two trains coupled together) and selective door opening, which allows the trains to call at stations with shorter platforms.

Steve Whitewick, Head of Fleet Transition at Avanti West Coast, said: “The new trains have certainly turned heads and the anticipation is building.

“It’s great to have the first two sets on the West Coast Main Line and we look forward to working with our partners to deliver a new fleet that will help deliver a step change in the travelling experience of our customers and colleagues.”

The new Hitachi trains are set to replace our diesel-only Voyager trains later this year on routes from London to the Midlands, Chester, North Wales and the North-West, leading to a 61% cut in carbon emissions. Quieter and roomier, with more reliable Wi-Fi, wireless charging for electric devices and a real-time customer information system, the new 23-strong fleet is the result of a £350m investment in sustainable travel.

Jim Brewin, Chief Director of UK and Ireland for Hitachi Rail said: “Seeing British-built Avanti West Coast trains running on the West Coast Main Line is a massive step towards their entry into passenger service.

Everyone at Hitachi's North-East factory is proud to see the next generation intercity trains leave the production line. The 700 strong factory workforce are keen to keep the new trains coming so we can help improve connectivity between the North West, Midlands and North Wales.”

FirstGroup News

News from FirstGroup plc

www.firstgroupplc.com

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

First Group media press release 10th Feb


fleet in service, in normal English means whole fleet, not part of them, let's see if all in service by 31st Dec 2023

FirstGroup News

News from FirstGroup plc

www.firstgroupplc.com

Well at least they are getting on with getting them into use time for EMR to step upto the plate

 

[The Planner]

First Group media press release 10th Feb


fleet in service, in normal English means whole fleet, not part of them, let's see if all in service by 31st Dec 2023

FirstGroup News

News from FirstGroup plc

www.firstgroupplc.com

You already know the answer to that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What speed did the Glasgow run reach? Presumably no more than 110mph.
Did it run in both modes?
When will we see one off the wires in Chester/North Wales/Shrewsbury, which is of course what they were built for?
As I understand it about half of the bodyshells of this "British built" Avanti train will come from Kasado - I have no idea if that includes these first two.