Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[Railperf]

I believe I read somewhere during the initial rollout of the 745's in 2020 that they are 200kph capable, up from the current 160kph, all with some minor modification to the power train (motors, gearbox, etc.). This was done to safeguard the potential for line speed increases on GEML in the future. Discussion for anther time, I feel...

745's are easentially 2 x 6 car Flirt with no middle driving cab and two motor bogies per unit. In comparison a Norwegian 200km/h NSB type 74 EMU is a 5-car variant with 3 motor bogies. Both the 3-car and 4-car Class 755's achieve 100mph on diesel. I would imagine a 5-car variant with 3 motor bogies and a power pack could easily do 125mph and 100mph on diesel. Problem is you would probably lose half the seats within the driving vehicles to meet UK standards.
Back to 805/807. Any idea when they will start test running / driver training?

 

[Chris125]

Offset, I'd say, by the VERY significant capacity increase. 5.80x has about a third more seats again than 5.221.

Something like 250 seats vs 300 isn't it? Good increase but not by a third.

 

[hexagon789]

Something like 250 seats vs 300 isn't it? Good increase but not by a third.

250 seats vs 299 seats. The Std Class capacity increase is 22% - from 224 seats to 274 seats. Overall the increase is just shy of 20% (as First Class drops one seat from 26 to 25).

 

[david l]

805001 is the unit working today, supposedly M-F this week.

 

[InOban]

Are these trips on fault free running or are they already on driver training?

 

[390136]

Are these trips on fault free running or are they already on driver training?

Purely testing at this point, they're not officially Avanti units yet I don't think.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

they're not officially Avanti units yet I don't think.

On RealtimeTrains they're appearing as ZZ not VT so that seems right

 

[800001]

On RealtimeTrains they're appearing as ZZ not VT so that seems right
View attachment 128493

They are operating under GBRF safety case, driven by GBRF drivers, with Hitachi staff onboard.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Rubbish picture, but...

 

[Doveymain158]

Purely testing at this point, they're not officially Avanti units yet I don't think.

They wont be in Avanti’s hands for a few months at least

 

[william.martin]

Do any of the "branches" that they will operate off the core West coast mainline (E.G to shrewsbury and North Wales) have clearances for 80x's already?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They wont be in Avanti’s hands for a few months at least

Do you think we'll be seeing more testing routes running, rather than the once North/South of this week?

 

[InOban]

And when are further units expected?

 

[william.martin]

And when are further units expected?

I am not sure when they are expected however I can confirm that 805002 is looking very complete.

Am I correct that there has been no progress on any 807's, just 805's?

 

[Sorcerer]

Really not big on the first class seating of the 805. It looks like a fancier version of the standard seats with a bit more padding. The Pendolino seats look much better and more premium, and seeing as first class is focused more on the comfort than being practical and making better use of space with smaller seats I don't see why they couldn't have been similarly designed but with modern standards.

 

[800001]

Really not big on the first class seating of the 805. It looks like a fancier version of the standard seats with a bit more padding. The Pendolino seats look much better and more premium, and seeing as first class is focused more on the comfort than being practical and making better use of space with smaller seats I don't see why they couldn't have been similarly designed but with modern standards.

I thought the seats were the same as the upgraded Pendolino?

 

[Sorcerer]

I thought the seats were the same as the upgraded Pendolino?

In standard class yes, but I don't think the Pendolino seats in first are the same.

 

[Liverpool 507]

In standard class yes, but I don't think the Pendolino seats in first are the same.

Fisa lean as seen on the 745s operated by Greater Anglia.

The first class seating can be seen here - https://twitter.com/Sim0nTrains/status/1622530960980905984/photo/4

 

[Energy]

In standard class yes, but I don't think the Pendolino seats in first are the same.

The Pendolino First Class seats were reused in the refurbishment. The FISA LEANs in the new 805s first class will be interesting...

 

[Christmas]

I wish I could understand the new obsession with painting the front ends of trains black. These IETs look horrendous in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish I could understand the new obsession with painting the front ends of trains black. These IETs look horrendous in my opinion.

I think judgement needs to be reserved until the actual livery has been applied. No train looks good in plain white.

 

[Sorcerer]

The Pendolino First Class seats were reused in the refurbishment. The FISA LEANs in the new 805s first class will be interesting...

I thought they might've been. Aside from the change in headrest, which I personally believe make them more aesthetically pleasing, the seats very much looked identical from the neck down.

I wish I could understand the new obsession with painting the front ends of trains black. These IETs look horrendous in my opinion.

Probably for reasons relating to cleanliness. Black doesn't show dirt and grime as prominently as yellow does. Otherwise I can't really think of any good reason.

 

[390136]

And when are further units expected?

May apparently!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2023 ==

I think judgement needs to be reserved until the actual livery has been applied. No train looks good in plain white.

Agreed, I think when the livery is applied they may be the best looking IET's on the network.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Do any of the "branches" that they will operate off the core West coast mainline (E.G to shrewsbury and North Wales) have clearances for 80x's already?

No 80x have run down those lines before so I'd say no. Clearance runs will need to take place.

 

[Energy]

Agreed, I think when the livery is applied they may be the best looking IET's on the network.

I'd be suprised if they looked too different from the concept images

Probably for reasons relating to cleanliness. Black doesn't show dirt and grime as prominently as yellow does. Otherwise I can't really think of any good reason.

Possibly, seems more likely whoever designed the exterior was told it could be any colour

 

[superalbs]

To be fair these units are for secondary services which will likely carry cheaper ticket prices (the Brum semifast and the second, slower Liverpool) so is this actually out of kilter?

Personally I wouldn't want my First Class product to be tainted by a lower quality offer. Perhaps Standard Premium would be a better classification on these.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I wouldn't want my First Class product to be tainted by a lower quality service. Perhaps Standard Premium would be a better classification on these.

I did actually wonder if these would only offer SP. However, the antimacassars do clearly say First Class.

 

[superalbs]

I did actually wonder if these would only offer SP. However, the antimacassars do clearly say First Class.

Makes you wonder if they will have SP at all.

 

[AJDesiro]

Makes you wonder if they will have SP at all.

I wouldn't have thought so, the 805s only have one carriage of first class seating, making it very difficult to offer both classes, the 807s may have SP, but a very small section, seeing as they have 1.5 carriages of first class (based on comparisons of seating count with other 80X). It seems that the seats have the magnetic antimacassar attachments, so it looks like provision is in place for SP antimacassars, but it's likely that they're there as a "just in case" measure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't have thought so, the 805s only have one carriage of first class seating, making it very difficult to offer both classes, the 807s may have SP, but a very small section, seeing as they have 1.5 carriages of first class. It seems that the seats have the magnetic antimacassar attachments, so it looks like provision is in place for SP antimacassars, but it's likely that they're there as a "just in case" measure.

Unless the cuts predicate otherwise, if they are still mostly running in pairs the way to do it would be to have 1st in one unit and SP in the other, the latter saving you a steward.