Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

[gg1]

It's hard to understand how someone who was a Labour party member until he was about 50 has suddenly become so right-wing. Based on the evidence I have (this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50474572 for example), not only is Anderson far to the right of the Labour party, but well to the right of many Tories too!

Converts often make the biggest zealots, applies just as much to politics as religion IMO. Liz Truss is another perfect example.

 

[nw1]

Converts often make the biggest zealots, applies just as much to politics as religion IMO. Liz Truss is another perfect example.

Mind you I don't think Truss ever was a fully paid-up Lib Dem, IMO. I suspect it was more that it was deeply unfashionable to be a Tory in 1994...

 

[Gloster]

Mind you I don't think Truss ever was a fully paid-up Lib Dem, IMO. I suspect it was more that it was deeply unfashionable to be a Tory in 1994...

Truss spoke at the 1994 Lib-Dem conference backing a call for the abolition of the monarchy. Perhaps that is why Queen Elizabeth died just after she took over.

 

[nw1]

Truss spoke at the 1994 Lib-Dem conference backing a call for the abolition of the monarchy.

Yes I knew of that one.

But whether she actually had beef with the monarchy or whether she just wanted to look cool is another question. Knowing Truss, I suspect the latter.

She could have become a 90s dance act ("Lizzie-T") and teamed up with that other apparently recently-converted right-winger, Johnny Rotten to make a dance cover of the famous 1977 hit. The Sex Pistols featuring Lizzie-T with "God Save The Queen '94"...

 

[Gloster]

I steeled myself to watch what the President of the Oxford University Liberal-Democrats, as she was then, had to say. She was actually a much better speaker then than now, but what she said could have been written by a five-year old.

 

[jfollows]

Jo Gideon, Conservative MP for Stoke-on-Trent Central, majority 670, aged 70, isn't going to contest her seat in the next election. I suspect she didn't expect to win in 2019. Anyway, I can't blame her.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks (though I found the article, see above). And also his claim that he got a huge majority... 39.3% is scarcely a mandate. More than 6 out of 10 Ashfield residents didn't vote for him.

I suspect he will lose his seat next time and good riddance.

But that won't be the end of him. He'll move somewhere else and will have gained loads of fans online (especially on the far right, white nationalists etc), so at the very least he'll end up on GB News or the like and play a part in keeping our country a cesspit.

 

[DarloRich]

Thoroughly nasty man. His local radio interview now doing the rounds among the major news outlets is appalling.

Correct - but those who support him don't think it is appalling and that is the point.

 

[Typhoon]

This is what happens when you appoint a loose cannon to s position of responsibility:

The new deputy chairman of the Conservative Party, Lee Anderson, has said he would support the return of the death penalty
In an interview with the Spectator before he was appointed to the role, he argued "nobody has ever committed a crime after being executed".
The PM said neither he nor the government shared Mr Anderson's stance.
But Labour accused Rishi Sunak of not being strong enough to stand up to what it called Mr Anderson's "nonsense".
In the interview, conducted a few days before he was made deputy chairman on Tuesday, Mr Anderson was asked whether he would support the return of the death penalty.
In response, he said: "Yes. Nobody has ever committed a crime after being executed."
"100% success rate," he added.

While this may be correct, not executing those who have not committed serious crimes has a less than 100% success rate. I wouldn't want that on my conscience, maybe Anderson hasn't considered that. But maybe he has!

Claiming it happened before he was given the role makes no difference. A motormouth like him will not change his views because he is told it isn't government policy - and it isn't as though the interview was years ago. At least Patel had the decency to change her views (or, at least, claim to) before being appointed to the Home Office following her car-crash contribution on Question Time (

).

BTW there are plenty of Tories ( including many that you might not think of as moderate!) unhappy with the direction of the party under Johnson and his followers. The conservative party that they knew and joined no longer exists.

I quite agree, there are those who are Conservative from birth, who must dread reading the papers each morning to find out what drivel has been spouted in their name. As an example, I doubt whether Thatcher would be satisfied with what has happened 2018 onwards, the likes of Howe; Heseltine, Whitelaw, Biffen, Hurd, Rifkind, Gummer, Fowler certainly wouldn't be and some of them were pretty right-wing. Many followed a policy because they believed that it was in the nation's interest (wrongly, in my opinion, but nevertheless), not because it was in their own.

Edit: quote is from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64580487

 

[birchesgreen]

I steeled myself to watch what the President of the Oxford University Liberal-Democrats, as she was then, had to say. She was actually a much better speaker then than now, but what she said could have been written by a five-year old.

She probably believed what she was saying back then, its always very useful when doing public speaking.

 

[DarloRich]

I doubt whether Thatcher would be satisfied with what has happened 2018 onwards, the likes of Howe; Heseltine, Whitelaw, Biffen, Hurd, Rifkind, Gummer, Fowler certainly wouldn't be and some of them were pretty right-wing. Many followed a policy because they believed that it was in the nation's interest (wrongly, in my opinion, but nevertheless), not because it was in their own.

Agreed!

Would Thatcher or Major have stood for the kind of open enrichment of donors and chums that we have seen under Johnson? Would Thatcher have stood for the kind of behaviour Johnson seemed to encourage? Would Major have dodged his tax or been fined for criminal behaviour?

But not just that, Ministers in the past were serious people and heavyweight politicians. Now they are fluff brained, gurning simpletons who spout whatever nonsense has been whatsapped into thier melon seconds before an interview! Where have the dull, solid, sensible people who used to run the country gone?

PS the Tories have always had a lunatic fringe ( Fabricant was elected in 1992 for example) but in the past these people were comedy figures. Now they are in power!

 

[nw1]

Edit: quote is from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64580487

Right of Fabricant, at least on this matter, it seems.

One wonders whether Anderson is angling to become the leader, or vice-leader, of Reform, or whatever the Farage movement is calling itself this month.

Certainly his politics seems - dare I say it - to the right even of Farage.

Also from this article: "Commons Leader Penny Mordaunt was also among those to back Mr Anderson." [though it's not clear as to whether that is on the death penalty or other matters].

From the same article: "She told MPs he should be known as "he stands up for me Lee", rather than "30p Lee" - a nickname he gained after claiming people could make meals from scratch for around 30p a day."

"He stands up for me Lee"? Pass the sick bag.

So much for Mordaunt being a moderate! Let's hope she doesn't take over as Tory leader after the election.

 

[Broucek]

Rishi Sunak:
Wednesday 8 February Dorset, photo-opportunity with Volodymyr Zelenski
helicopter to London
Thursday 9 February
aircraft to Cornwall

Would anyone else's employer approve expenses in such a way?

They probably would for someone with a comparable level of responsibility....

I find this level of reasoning childish. Whatever you might think of him, Sunak is a pretty busy person with a staggering amount of reponsiblity and that sort of travel is understandably normal for top politicians anywhere in the world (and for top business leaders).

 

[jon0844]

Agreed!

Would Thatcher or Major have stood for the kind of open enrichment of donors and chums that we have seen under Johnson? Would Thatcher have stood for the kind of behaviour Johnson seemed to encourage? Would Major have dodged his tax or been fined for criminal behaviour?

But not just that, Ministers in the past were serious people and heavyweight politicians. Now they are fluff brained, gurning simpletons who spout whatever nonsense has been whatsapped into thier melon seconds before an interview! Where have the dull, solid, sensible people who used to run the country gone?

PS the Tories have always had a lunatic fringe ( Fabricant was elected in 1992 for example) but in the past these people were comedy figures. Now they are in power!

I think the beginning of the end was around 1997 when Tony Blair got in, and it was all about spin and how to play the media (which obviously worked for New Labour). The Internet becoming more mainstream from around 1995-1997 was probably a factor, and has been ever since.

I set up my website in 1994 and in the early 1990s the Internet was still something more for Uni students and the web was in its infancy, and looked terrible. But it did allow people to create their own websites and build their own followings, as well as the popularity of forums and newsgroups.

It does mean that a politician can no longer be a grey-haired 'boring' person like Major. They need to have celebrity and be able to woo the public, and sadly that means we get wannabe celebrities voted into power.

Arguably, the people we want to run the country shouldn't be doing it for popularity and managing their own social media channels, appearing on TV shows as pundits (instead of being interviewed) and doing countless publicity stunts.

But we're never going back to how it was. We couldn't even if we tried.

 

[Gloster]

Badenoch has appointed Joanne Cash, a donor to her party leadership campaign, as an equalities commissioner. That is not, in itself, illegal, nor is the fact that Cash is a former Consrrvative candidate. However, with all that has been going on recently about people appointed by ministers, it is extremely cloth-eared, stupid or worse, not to be open about such facts.

It is also worth commenting that when Cash unexpectedly failed to win Westminster North in 2010, she none too subtly threatened the press. She referred to her husband as having, “had many, many lies told about him in the press.” She also said, “So for the record, press, you are on notice. No more lies.”

Source: news from The Grauniad, but quotes expanded from Evening Standard 7 May 2010. (Sorry, mods, I can’t do links.)

 

[jon0844]

Dominic Cummings started this whole thing with controlling the media quite brazenly*. Remember when people were chucked out of Downing Street ahead of a conference? It's very easy to control the media if you restrict access to conferences, MPs for interview and everything else you need to do in order to keep the Government in check.

In the end, some organisations will have to comply or they risk losing their readership and going out of business - or in the case of the BBC or Channel 4, having funding pulled.

It's no surprise that in recent years, many MPs won't appear on TV or radio for interviews. Those that do have been known to agree only if there's a written assurance that certain questions won't be asked.

In the tech world, companies can try and control the media from blacklisting them from events if they don't say nice things - but while that's a scandal in its own right, it's not anywhere near as bad as when a Government does it.

* I have no doubt that it was being done more subtly before, but this was right out of the Donald Trump playbook and restricting the press is now a favourite thing of the right... to stop 'fake news' of course.

 

[Typhoon]

Also from this article: "Commons Leader Penny Mordaunt was also among those to back Mr Anderson." [though it's not clear as to whether that is on the death penalty or other matters].

From the same article: "She told MPs he should be known as "he stands up for me Lee", rather than "30p Lee" - a nickname he gained after claiming people could make meals from scratch for around 30p a day."

"He stands up for me Lee"? Pass the sick bag.

So much for Mordaunt being a moderate! Let's hope she doesn't take over as Tory leader after the election.

Unfortunately 'He stands up for me except if I am a nurse/ have two low paid jobs so don't have a lot of time for cooking/ am one of his employees who he embarrassed/ take an anti-racist stance in sport/ am offended by Partygate because I lost a loved one/ dare to disagree with him on social media Lee' doesn't have the same ring to it.

I guess Mordaunt just wants to get Anderson and his like on board when the next leadership election comes along.

 

[jfollows]

Nadine Dorries won’t stand for re-election.
No loss there, in my opinion.
Anyway I thought she was off to the Lords, possibly to give Boris her safe seat.

 

[DarloRich]

I think the beginning of the end was around 1997 when Tony Blair got in, and it was all about spin and how to play the media (which obviously worked for New Labour). The Internet becoming more mainstream from around 1995-1997 was probably a factor, and has been ever since.

i am not sure i agree - some of the minor things the Blair government was roasted for by the press were insignificant to the crimes of Johnson and his gang. Imagine if that had been a Labour leader. Imagine if it had been Corbyn ( god forbid!)

 

[jon0844]

i am not sure i agree - some of the minor things the Blair government was roasted for by the press were insignificant to the crimes of Johnson and his gang. Imagine if that had been a Labour leader. Imagine if it had been Corbyn ( god forbid!)

I don't mean so much what they did (most scandals in the 80s and 90s were affairs and the like, which today is perfectly fine) but rather the way politicians are all about appearance, popularity and metrics etc.

That's why they are so short term in thinking because everything is for a news cycle.

Local politics is just the same now.

 

[nw1]

I don't mean so much what they did (most scandals in the 80s and 90s were affairs and the like, which today is perfectly fine) but rather the way politicians are all about appearance, popularity and metrics etc.

That's why they are so short term in thinking because everything is for a news cycle.

Local politics is just the same now.

Maybe: Cameron's lot seemed to be largely slick, sharp-suited, and photogenic - but more recently the likes of May and Hammond were perhaps less so.

But I think the current Tories (as in, 2019 onwards) seem to be particularly air-headed and clueless. That, and/or reactionary right-wingers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2023 ==

Unfortunately 'He stands up for me except if I am a nurse/ have two low paid jobs so don't have a lot of time for cooking/ am one of his employees who he embarrassed/ take an anti-racist stance in sport/ am offended by Partygate because I lost a loved one/ dare to disagree with him on social media Lee' doesn't have the same ring to it.

I guess Mordaunt just wants to get Anderson and his like on board when the next leadership election comes along.

But by doing so, she loses all claims to be a moderate, will not be a fresh start, will perpetuate the same old reactionary rubbish the Tories have been peddling since 2019, and that will not help them if they want to get back in power in 2028/29.

Though, given she is a conviction Brexiter I have always had my doubts about Mordaunt. Like Sunak, the only really positive thing I said about her last summer was that she was an "anyone but Truss" candidate.

Plus, I would put money on Anderson not being an MP by the time the next leadership election comes along, in any case. He didn't achieve 40% of the vote in 2019, his reactionary views will put off a lot of voters, and I suspect that the Lib Dems, for example, will stand down in Ashfield to unite support around an anti-Anderson candidate, most likely Labour.

 

[Typhoon]

But by doing so, she loses all claims to be a moderate, will not be a fresh start, will perpetuate the same old reactionary rubbish the Tories have been peddling since 2019, and that will not help them if they want to get back in power in 2028/29.

She will be clutching at straws, the next chance will probably be her last chance. Once. twice, three times a loser - she would be out of contention, and probably lucky to even keep the level of government responsibility that she currently has. Looking down the most recent incumbents of that office doesn't encourage the impression that PMs treat it as a launching pad for a senior role in government.

 

[brad465]

She will be clutching at straws, the next chance will probably be her last chance. Once. twice, three times a loser - she would be out of contention, and probably lucky to even keep the level of government responsibility that she currently has. Looking down the most recent incumbents of that office doesn't encourage the impression that PMs treat it as a launching pad for a senior role in government.

That's also if she survives the next election in her seat; she was elected into Portsmouth North in 2010, and the seat was Labour throughout the last Labour Government, so it would not be beyond the bounds that she would lose her seat in a Labour victory scenario, and even if she does hold onto it, if it's tight the Tories may not risk her on that basis.

 

[nw1]

That's also if she survives the next election in her seat; she was elected into Portsmouth North in 2010, and the seat was Labour throughout the last Labour Government, so it would not be beyond the bounds that she would lose her seat in a Labour victory scenario, and even if she does hold onto it, if it's tight the Tories may not risk her on that basis.

Portsmouth North does seem to be considerably more Conservative than the national average though, with 61% voting for Mordaunt last time versus Labour on 27%.

Given it's a highly urban and not especially affluent seat, the sheer level of support for the Tories is surprising, though the urban south does, in general, seem to be more right-wing than the urban north. It seems to have become notably Tory just recently, with Mordaunt failing to reach 50% in 2010 and 2015. A very Johnsonist seat, I suspect - the kind of seat which fell for Johnson's "charms". However the other Portsmouth seat is nothing like as inclined towards the Tories - and indeed has a Labour MP.

While I hope otherwise, I'd say it's a likely Con hold - with the only likely Con losses in Hampshire being Southampton Itchen and Winchester.

 

[AM9]

Portsmouth North does seem to be considerably more Conservative than the national average though, with 61% voting for Mordaunt last time versus Labour on 27%.

Given it's a highly urban and not especially affluent seat, the sheer level of support for the Tories is surprising, though the urban south does, in general, seem to be more right-wing than the urban north. It seems to have become notably Tory just recently, with Mordaunt failing to reach 50% in 2010 and 2015. A very Johnsonist seat, I suspect - the kind of seat which fell for Johnson's "charms". However the other Portsmouth seat is nothing like as inclined towards the Tories - and indeed has a Labour MP.

While I hope otherwise, I'd say it's a likely Con hold - with the only likely Con losses in Hampshire being Southampton Itchen and Winchester.

Portsmouth North constituency's voting has consistently followed the national vote in general elections throughout the 20th cantury.* I lived there for four years 1976-1980, and the opinion from locals then was that its northern part (i.e. that on the mainland), was dominated by RN and ex-navy families who traditionally voted very conservatively (note small 'c') around the centreline of UK politics. That block of voters was also graded from the shorline/Port Creek south of the old A27 (Havant Road) where seamen lived to above the old A27 in Upper Farlington where living further up towards Portsdown Hill Road was like rising in officer rank.
* There was a period when the area that is now Portsmouth North was part of Portsmouth West constituency - but no longer divided that way.

 

[Halwynd]

Would Major have dodged his tax or been fined for criminal behaviour?

But not just that, Ministers in the past were serious people and heavyweight politicians...

Major? Wasn't he the nice chap from south London.... liked garden peas and buggered up the railway? You have to take your hat off to him, wrote Back to Basics whilst getting his leg over with Edwina, what a lad...

 

[Thirteen]

I would imagine Nadine will continue her TalkTV shows, being a talking head on various news programmes and writing books.

At this point, I think a lot of the MPs who came in 2010 will be gone either through choice or defeat so Parliament is going to have a lot of fresh faces.

 

[DarloRich]

Major? Wasn't he the nice chap from south London.... liked garden peas and buggered up the railway? You have to take your hat off to him, wrote Back to Basics whilst getting his leg over with Edwina, what a lad...

the difference being if that had come out at the time he may well have had to resign.

 

[Lost property]

I would imagine Nadine will continue her TalkTV shows, being a talking head on various news programmes and writing books.

At this point, I think a lot of the MPs who came in 2010 will be gone either through choice or defeat so Parliament is going to have a lot of fresh faces.

Talking head defined her perfectly....albeit what she actually says is complete rubbish ( Boris doesn't tell lies ! ) amongst her many, inane, utterances. Possibly she can invite Sarah Palin as a special guest...now there would be a "meeting of minds " if ever there was one !

 

[najaB]

I think you meant a meeting of "minds" there - there is no doubt about the meeting.