Trivia: Ferry routes running between points on the same shoreline

[Lewlew]

It occurs to me that Southampton to Portsmouth might be an interesting route to run by ship, as the roads are I assume congested and a bit of a long way around and the railway is not very direct either. Would Southampton - Hythe - Portsmouth work or could you add Cowes and Ryde in to add to the income from trips plus potential round trips?

Brambles Bank (in the middle of the Solent) is in the way so the only way to go from Soton to Pompey is to turn right at Calshot Spit and then skim past Cowes. Going into Cowes and back out will likely add at least 20 mins so will make the journey length too long

 

[adamedwards]

Thanks. I didn't know about the bank, so don't make me Captain of this ship!

 

[185143]

Staying in Swanage many years ago (1970s?), there was a hovercraft service eastwards, to somewhere like Christchurch then Yarmouth IoW. It was more a tourist attraction than regular public transport, but the first leg arguably meets the OP's criteria and was probably quicker than the parallel road route via the Sandbanks chain ferry and through the middle of Bournemouth.

AFAIK the Hovertravel service between Southsea beach and Ryde Esplanade is the only remaining hovercraft route in Britain.

It's the only remaining regular hovercraft route in the world if the advertising on the Hoverbus is correct.

 

[43055]

From the 1st March Brittany Ferries will operate a Le Havre to Rosslare route.

Passengers will return to Le Havre in 2023 – Brittany Ferries

Passengers will return to Le Havre in 2023​

20th December 2022

• • 
    Brittany Ferries Cotentin

​

Brittany Ferries has today confirmed it will re-open its Portsmouth to Le Havre service for passengers. The route had been run in freight-only mode for the last few years, a consequence of the Covid. But today – 20 December 2022 – tickets have gone on sale for voyages taking place from 1 March 2023.

Passengers will travel on Brittany Ferries Cotentin. The ship has space for up to 114 passengers in well-appointed cabins. Cotentin hosts a self-service restaurant, bar and small shop. Up to 30 dogs can be accommodated on the route (travelling in vehicle). Prices start from £109 for a car and two passengers each way.

“This is great news for travellers and for the city of Portsmouth,” said Paul Acheson director of sales and marketing, Brittany Ferries. “Once again Portsmouth, our UK-hub, will connect travellers with four destinations in Normandy and Brittany, as well as two in northern Spain.

“Le Havre is a fantastic destination in itself. It’s a Unesco World Heritage Site renowned for the towering St Joseph’s Church, famous gardens and a fantastic beach, which is one of its best kept secrets. But it is also gateway to the Seine Maritime region and the many treasures this area holds, such as the famous arch of Etretat.

As well as Portsmouth – Le Havre, the ship will carry passengers on Le-Havre to Rosslare. Her schedule includes one round-trip to each destination:

Sunday and Thursday

• Le Havre – Portsmouth : departure 17h30 – Arrival 22h00
• Portsmouth – Le Havre : departure 23h30 – Arriva 08h30

Friday

• Le Havre-Rosslare : departure 19h00 – Arrival 14h30

Saturday

• Rosslare-Le Havre : departure 17h45 – Arrival15h00

Ends

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have we had the Butley ferry on the Suffolk coast yet (providing a link across the Butley river near Orford / Woodbridge)? One of the oldest (and smallest) of ferry operations in the UK, consisting of a small row boat and normally only operating seasonally on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays between April and October each year.

 

[Ediswan]

Have we had the Butley ferry on the Suffolk coast yet (providing a link across the Butley river near Orford / Woodbridge)? One of the oldest (and smallest) of ferry operations in the UK, consisting of a small row boat and normally only operating seasonally on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays between April and October each year.

Used that once on a cycling trip. It was a speculative route. We found the ferry closed. Then, if I recall correctly, as we were about to backtrack, one of the usual ferryman's offspring appeared and offered to take us and our bikes across. Several crossings were needed.

 

[dutchflyer]

The general public perception of a boat service, whether a vehicle ferry, catamaran or hovercraft, is to bridge gaps between two opposite stretches of land surrounded by water.
Also am I right in thinking that it was normal to travel by boat between towns along the same coastline before the development of railways?

Out of the UK, NOrway is a prime example-very thinly populated and all main towns along its coast-also known for the many, many fjords=inlets to the sea. Indeed boats (one would not call them ferry) were its main form of transport, both for goods and people untill railways got being built-at first as meter gauge to cut cost. Its southern line follows all along the coast from Oslo to Stavanger.
But even today NOrway still has its and quite famous Hurtigruten coastal shipping, daily all year (but not sure if daily is all year in winter), though ports of call vary a little with day of week. Also not what one usually thinks of as ferry, more aiming to be ´cruiseliner´ with touristy packages to underline that. And this line does offer some links that via land, even by road would be quite hard and with very long detours to do.
Currently I am in Bangkok/TH and there are 2 (and a few more minor ones that no tourist knows about) major boatlinks along the river and a main canal that mainly thrives due to the giant and excessive traffic jams over the parrallel roads-along the river here now even worse as one has started building a new metroline so digging up the street! Its not overly fast, but very reliable and always on time.
My country, Nederland was apparently famous in the centuries pre train etc for its many canals and reliable and fairly fast even ´trekschuit´=horse drawn boats (the horses on a narrow path along). I understand UK must also have had such a system (narrow boats?). Was deemed to be far more comfy as horse drawn mail-coaches over very bad roads-with also bandits and robbery to fear. Some major routes could even survive a few odd years after a railway along was opened (train way too expensive, boats fairly cheap in its lower 3d class)

 

[Class800]

Spalding has / had a water taxi linking the town centre with Springfields Outlet Village. Not sure if it has returned post Covid, but it has a journey time of 40 minutes, so slower than walking between the two.

An overseas example I know is Russell to Paihia, New Zealand - round the bay vs over the bay. There's a closer to home example Torquay to Brixham

 

[Shimbleshanks]

My country, Nederland was apparently famous in the centuries pre train etc for its many canals and reliable and fairly fast even ´trekschuit´=horse drawn boats (the horses on a narrow path along). I understand UK must also have had such a system (narrow boats?). Was deemed to be far more comfy as horse drawn mail-coaches over very bad roads-with also bandits and robbery to fear. Some major routes could even survive a few odd years after a railway along was opened (train way too expensive, boats fairly cheap in its lower 3d class)

Short-distance public and private fast passenger boats on the canals were reasonably common in and around major cities like Manchester, I believe, before the railways put them out of business. But I don't think the canals were used much for long distance passenger transport - too slow, and for those that could afford it, the mail coaches on the turnpike roads would have been (relatively) quick.

 

[philthetube]

Out of the UK, NOrway is a prime example-very thinly populated and all main towns along its coast-also known for the many, many fjords=inlets to the sea. Indeed boats (one would not call them ferry) were its main form of transport, both for goods and people untill railways got being built-at first as meter gauge to cut cost. Its southern line follows all along the coast from Oslo to Stavanger.
But even today NOrway still has its and quite famous Hurtigruten coastal shipping, daily all year (but not sure if daily is all year in winter), though ports of call vary a little with day of week. Also not what one usually thinks of as ferry, more aiming to be ´cruiseliner´ with touristy packages to underline that. And this line does offer some links that via land, even by road would be quite hard and with very long detours to do.
Currently I am in Bangkok/TH and there are 2 (and a few more minor ones that no tourist knows about) major boatlinks along the river and a main canal that mainly thrives due to the giant and excessive traffic jams over the parrallel roads-along the river here now even worse as one has started building a new metroline so digging up the street! Its not overly fast, but very reliable and always on time.
My country, Nederland was apparently famous in the centuries pre train etc for its many canals and reliable and fairly fast even ´trekschuit´=horse drawn boats (the horses on a narrow path along). I understand UK must also have had such a system (narrow boats?). Was deemed to be far more comfy as horse drawn mail-coaches over very bad roads-with also bandits and robbery to fear. Some major routes could even survive a few odd years after a railway along was opened (train way too expensive, boats fairly cheap in its lower 3d class)

It is used as a ferry, at times is winter it is the only route available because of the weather and in summer many students use it almost as a hop on hop off service, also all calls are also used for freight.

It can be used for a cruise, but that is is not the only use.

 

[Rob F]

It continued on the West Coast of Scotland for many years after the 1930s. Caledonian MacBrayne's Summer service from Mallaig to Kyle of Lochalsh, for example, was not withdrawn until 1976....and was a very enjoyable part - in good weather - of many people's Freedom of Scotland trips.

Coastal shipping routes are still very much a thing in many European countries with heavily-indented mountainous coastlines, such as Norway, Italy, Croatia and Greece.

It was still going later than that. I did Mallaig to Kyle on a Freedom of Scotland ticket in 1988.

 

[paul1609]

Brambles Bank (in the middle of the Solent) is in the way so the only way to go from Soton to Pompey is to turn right at Calshot Spit and then skim past Cowes. Going into Cowes and back out will likely add at least 20 mins so will make the journey length too long

Surely a fast cat would make use of the north channel via East Brambles (north of Brambles Bank)? I think it is a minimum depth of 4 metres, Ive been through it several times on Minehunters cutting the corner off.

 

[BayPaul]

Surely a fast cat would make use of the north channel via East Brambles (north of Brambles Bank)? I think it is a minimum depth of 4 metres, Ive been through it several times on Minehunters cutting the corner off.

Definitely. The economics are still shakey though. You'd struggle to get a journey time less than 40 mins, which means that 2 ferries would be needed for an hourly service - twice the cost base of the red jet service, competing with a similar length rail journey.

 

[MisterSheeps]

I don't think the canals were used much for long distance passenger transport - too slow

Kendal - Preston existed until the building of the railway, took about 8 hours, numerous changes of horses, the locally known Waterwitch was such a 'fly packet' boat. I have read a similar account of a Gloucester - London boat. The latter raison d'etre of the Spean Bridge - Fort Augustus railway was to provide onward boat travel to Inverness (initially was hoped to be a link in an alternative Glasgow - Inverness line).

CalMac run a ferry once per week from Kennacraig (Kintyre) via Islay and Colonsay to Oban and back in the summer.

At one time, 1970s, a ferry went Fort William, Oban, Mull of Kintyyre (Macrihanish?), to Northern Ireland. Lasted a few summers.

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi,
If a local project delivers, we will be getting a Bangor to Belfast high speed ferry in 2024.

It's a technology demonstrator of the Artemis Technology project. Condor Ferries will be running the commercial side of things.

From a tech perspective this is fascinating. I've been lucky enough to see the prototype work vessel up close and it's amazing how small the wing section needs to be.
From a commercial standpoint, I think it'll be hard to openly compete against the current land based options. Whilst driving the Bangor-Belfast road is predictably awful in the rush hour there are a handful of busses and 6tph (in the peaks) to choose from...
But you've got to test new technology somewhere and it's something I'll be keen to use.

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[trebor79]

There is a seasonal foot ferry between Fowey and Mevagissey.

 

[zwk500]

It's a technology demonstrator of the Artemis Technology project. Condor Ferries will be running the commercial side of things.

Is it radically different from commercial Hydrofoil designs that have been operating quite happily for many decades?

 

[AndrewE]

What is more unusual however are ferry routes that link two locations on the same coastline or river bank even where a road or rail link is perfectly feasible. I believe the London boats are an example of this, although I am not sure whether there are any individual routes that stick to the north or south bank of the Thames. Hypothetical ferry corridors such as Southampton to Portsmouth or Liverpool to Blackpool could probably also be competitive with rail depending on speed due to the slow nature of train links between them.

Also am I right in thinking that it was normal to travel by boat between towns along the same coastline before the development of railways?

Yes, First Morecambe (a station on a N Pier) then Fleetwood (see N Euston Hotel, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Euston_Hotel) were the ports for Glasgow before the railway was built through the Lake District.

I have been on a hydrofoil from Naples back to Sorrento in about 1/4 the time the narrow-gauge train service took, a bit like the crossing of Torbay mentioned above...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is it radically different from commercial Hydrofoil designs that have been operating quite happily for many decades?

I've never seen a catamaran hydrofoil before, so I would say there is a difference.

 

[zwk500]

I've never seen a catamaran hydrofoil before, so I would say there is a difference.

The America's Cup racing yachts are Catamaran Hydrofoils, although I do accept there's a difference in scale. However I'd say that sticking a hydrofoil on a Catamaran is hardly ground-breaking, it's a union of two very well established technologies.
It's also claimed to be all-electric, which is hardly new to smaller boats.

 

[bangor-toad]

Is it radically different from commercial Hydrofoil designs that have been operating quite happily for many decades?

Hi,
I don't know know the details as it's not something I'm involved with. However from what I can work out it is aiming at a very different outcome to anything that's currently out there;

The aim is for a 150(ish) person ferry.
It'll be fully electric.
There will be very little wake from fast moving vessels.
The hydrofoil will be mounted only on a single central support (as an inverted "T" shape).
There's all sorts of processing cleverness to measure the water and make dynamic changes to the control surfaces to ensure stability.

There are some nice little videos of the company website: Link

It seems to be based on new technology and ideas as it's currently got £33million of UK Government competitive R&D funding.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[D6130]

The latter raison d'etre of the Spean Bridge - Fort Augustus railway was to provide onward boat travel to Inverness (initially was hoped to be a link in an alternative Glasgow - Inverness line).

Yes, the North British Railway were determined to get to Inverness....and the Highland railway were equally determined to keep them out - eventually managing to block the parliamentary bill to enable construction or the Fort Augustus - Inverness section.

 

[Taunton]

Probably summer 1962, Campbells ran a paddle steamer each Saturday when the tide was right between Bristol and Weston-super-Mare. It then went on to Cardiff, Minehead, Porthcawl etc so you had to come back by train or bus. It seemed to take hours, and disappointingly soon (in youthful times) after arrival in Weston we had to come home again. The zig-zag across the estuary was suggested to do a range of "same side" excusrions, coming back separately.

 

[MisterSheeps]

Yes, the North British Railway were determined to get to Inverness....and the Highland railway were equally determined to keep them out - eventually managing to block the parliamentary bill to enable construction or the Fort Augustus - Inverness section.

there was similar malarkey regarding a link between Ballachulish & Fort William. Seems incredible to me why there was such desperation to fill the West Highlands with railways; the Inverness - South trade then must have been neglible. Dalwhinnie/Newtonmore _- Tulloch would have been far better than the West Highland north of Crianlarich
I know there was a station at Banavie above the locks; i guess there was an Inverness - Banavie ferry at one time?

 

[BayPaul]

there was similar malarkey regarding a link between Ballachulish & Fort William. Seems incredible to me why there was such desperation to fill the West Highlands with railways; the Inverness - South trade then must have been neglible. Dalwhinnie/Newtonmore _- Tulloch would have been far better than the West Highland north of Crianlarich
I know there was a station at Banavie above the locks; i guess there was an Inverness - Banavie ferry at one time?

Yes, David Macbraynes Royal Route. Glasgow to Inverness with several changes of vessel, via the Crinan Canal, Oban and Banavie, taking two days. For many years the most prestigious route in Scotland

 

[Steddenm]

Does the Teignmouth-Shaldon passenger ferry count albeit its a rowing boat.

It is apparently the oldest passenger ferry still in operation in England.

From https://teignmouthshaldonferry.co.uk/about-teignmouth-shaldon-passenger-ferry/

The Teignmouth to Shaldon Ferry is a central part of life on the River Teign and is possibly the oldest passenger service in England.

The Ferry Crossing can be traced back to 1296, but is probably much older, with origins in Saxon times. It has always been an important link and in those days saved a 14 mile journey to Shaldon and beyond, via Newton Abbot as the first bridge wasn’t built until 1827.

The Ferry now runs from the bottom of Lifeboat Lane in Teignmouth, but throughout its history has landed in several different places. For instance, during World War Two, The Ferry landing moved along the beach to Gales Hill, next to the present commercial docks, as the whole area around The Point was used by U.S. Forces for the repair and preparation of landing craft for D Day.

Black and white ‘gunports’ were added to the rowing boat ferries after the Napoleonic wars to make them look like ‘fearsome’ Men o’ War. This tradition continued with the advent of the first motor ferries nos. 1 & 2 in 1907-08.

When the first bridge was built around 1827 the ferry was then owned by the Shaldon Bridge Company until it was purchased by the local Council in the early 1950s.

Teignbridge District Council still retain the ‘rights to the crossing and own No.4 ferry, which was built in 1946. The service itself is run privately by a local company, the previous owners added the former Kings Lynn Ferry to the route, built around 1973 and now named ‘No.5’.

A visit the Teignmouth & Shaldon museum will tell you more about the Ferry and local history.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Looks like quite a few in Japan including Nagoya-Sendai on Honshu eastern side and a couple on the western side.

 

[hermit]

In 2010 there was a proposal to use two redundant Wightlink catamarans to provide a service across the Bristol Channel between Swansea and Ilfracombe. It was to be called Severn Link, and I believe even got as far as recruiting some staff.
There is of course a long history of steamers crossing the Channel in the holiday season - the Campbell’s boats, referred to above, did it for years, with the Balmoral being the last of the line.
However, in modern conditions it was always difficult to see how a passenger-only service could be viable, particularly given the lack of onward connections on the Devon side, and the project duly foundered.
The catamarans were last heard of running services out of the Russian Black Sea ports.

 

[Gloster]

In 2010 there was a proposal to use two redundant Wightlink catamarans to provide a service across the Bristol Channel between Swansea and Ilfracombe. It was to be called Severn Link, and I believe even got as far as recruiting some staff.
There is of course a long history of steamers crossing the Channel in the holiday season - the Campbell’s boats, referred to above, did it for years, with the Balmoral being the last of the line.
However, in modern conditions it was always difficult to see how a passenger-only service could be viable, particularly given the lack of onward connections on the Devon side, and the project duly foundered.
The catamarans were last heard of running services out of the Russian Black Sea ports.

One of Wightlink's captains was supposed to have been recruited and I think that they even got as far as some repainting of one of the cats. Frankly, it always struck me as a completely bonkers idea, but it seems to be periodically ‘revived’, although revived may just mean somebody getting their name in the paper by saying, “wouldn’t it be wonderful if…if someone else puts up the money”.

 

[Woolos 22]

Weymouth has a rowing boat ferry across the the river wey in the summer .also there is a passenger ferry to portland from weymouth