The future of 91131

[ZCreaser]

Hi all,

I received this email this morning about the future of ex LNER 91131.

Dear Zakhary,



Thank you for your email.

91131 is to become part of the Museum of Scottish Railways nationally Recognised Collection. It will be moved by low-loader to Bo’ness as it is not practical to move the vehicle by rail to Scotland. 91131 will go on display in the Museum of Scottish Railways as one of our main exhibits in our first exhibition building with one of the collections sleeper cars behind it. At the moment there are no other plans for the locomotive other than putting it on display in the museum and giving it a bit of TLC (which will be light cleaning and maintenance). The vehicle will never run and it will stay as a static exhibit. We do have some plans for 91131 but these need to be finalised once the vehicle is on site, an assessment to whether these ideas are practical has been undertaken and probably won’t be started till next year.

It has taken a long time to get to this point and at the currently we are just glad that 91131 is finally making its way to Bo’ness to become part of the Museum collection. If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

 

[BigB]

Of course it has still not left Doncaster yet....
Anyone would think that Eversholt don't want to give it up???

 

[DanNCL]

Hi all,

I received this email this morning about the future of ex LNER 91131.

Interesting they’re saying it’s part of their own collection, as my understanding was that it was part of the National Collection, and only on loan to the Museum of Scottish Railways from the NRM, much like 84001 was.

I find it bizarre that it can’t move by rail to Scotland when other equally poor condition examples can move to Wales by rail for scrap.

Of course it has still not left Doncaster yet....
Anyone would think that Eversholt don't want to give it up???

Eversholt have given it up and it’s no longer in their care. It’s still in Doncaster West Yard as road transport hasn’t been able to be provided yet.

 

[DiggleJunction]

Yeah saw it last Thursday holed up at the end and it doesn't look any worse than the ones being transported for scrap. When they say more practical to be moved by road they probably mean cheaper lol.

 

[skyhigh]

I find it bizarre that it can’t move by rail to Scotland when other equally poor condition examples can move to Wales by rail for scrap.

Not that it can't, just that it's not practical. It's probably much cheaper to send a batch of 3 locos by rail on a route they've already taken previous scrap moves on than it is to move one example somewhere else.

 

[DanNCL]

Not that it can't, just that it's not practical. It's probably much cheaper to send a batch of 3 locos by rail on a route they've already taken previous scrap moves on than it is to move one example somewhere else.

The scrap move to Newport went a route not previously taken by 91s. On the other hand, 91s (including 91131 itself) have traversed the entire route between Doncaster and Bo’ness apart from the last few miles on the Bo’ness & Kinneil railway. But I get the point about a convoy being more viable than a single loco.

 

[BigB]

Interesting they’re saying it’s part of their own collection, as my understanding was that it was part of the National Collection, and only on loan to the Museum of Scottish Railways from the NRM, much like 84001 was.

I find it bizarre that it can’t move by rail to Scotland when other equally poor condition examples can move to Wales by rail for scrap.


Eversholt have given it up and it’s no longer in their care. It’s still in Doncaster West Yard as road transport hasn’t been able to be provided yet.

The NRM didnt need this one as well as the others, and it will be owned and part of the collection at Bo'ness, not on loan. I'm guessing your correspondence was with the museum director, who has a better understanding than most about this

It was originally intended to be moved by road and 84001 taken to York on the return journey but as it wasn't released by Eversholt in a timely manner, it has doubled the transport cost.

Road transport was arranged at least twice, but as I understand it is Eversholt's responsibility until it is loaded onto the Goodman's truck. There have been delays shall we say, but at least now it is in a better position where it can be loaded, albeit with a bit of a shunt.

 

[DanNCL]

The NRM didnt need this one as well as the others, and it will be owned and part of the collection at Bo'ness, not on loan. I'm guessing your correspondence was with the museum director, who has a better understanding than most about this

It was originally intended to be moved by road and 84001 taken to York on the return journey but as it wasn't released by Eversholt in a timely manner, it has doubled the transport cost.

Road transport was arranged at least twice, but as I understand it is Eversholt's responsibility until it is loaded onto the Goodman's truck. There have been delays shall we say, but at least now it is in a better position where it can be loaded, albeit with a bit of a shunt.

My correspondence wasn’t with the directors of either the NRM or the Museum of Scottish Railways. If it’s not owned by the NRM one has to wonder how Bo’ness got their hands on it in the first place, seeing as Crewe Heritage Centre wanted it for their own collection, and being the last loco built in Crewe you’d have thought Crewe might have had a chance! But at least it’s been saved and is going somewhere where it’ll be looked after, that’s the main thing.

 

[Alanko]

Seems a shame to lose 84001 given that it was built in Glasgow. The trade off being a knackered 91 in worn out LNER livery? Will they wash the dead flies off the front at least?

 

[BigB]

My correspondence wasn’t with the directors of either the NRM or the Museum of Scottish Railways. If it’s not owned by the NRM one has to wonder how Bo’ness got their hands on it in the first place, seeing as Crewe Heritage Centre wanted it for their own collection, and being the last loco built in Crewe you’d have thought Crewe might have had a chance! But at least it’s been saved and is going somewhere where it’ll be looked after, that’s the main thing.

Okay - I should have said "the correspondence" in the OP message...
Bo'ness have it by dint of it being something that ran to Scotland pretty much all its life, that is the connection. They were the East Coast flagship trains from the 1990s onward, and so fitting it will go into the Museum of Scotlands Railway, and be owned by the museum trust. Yes it was the last loco made at Crewe but it never ran there. The decision was made in 1996 for it to be saved and passed to the NRM, and the NRM offered it to Bo'ness, so there is no need to "wonder" about it, it was a logical balanced decision made by all the right people. As another two are designated maybe York can loan one to Crewe in future?

Having sat in the rain for months, the flies should have washed off, but its going to take a bit of a clean! 37403 was getting a good jet wash today before its turn on the BLS tour this coming weekend, so hopefully everything will stay put if the 91 gets the same treatment!! As it will be viewed from ground level it would benefit from clean bogies and ancillaries but will stop short of a repaint.

 

[Alanko]

If this 91 had gone to Crewe, would they put it on one of those scrap lines they have outside their heritage centre? Hardly the best way to present a loco, even if it is within spitting distance of the original production line. Pride of place, sandwiched between a 37 under a tarp and some steam loco in Barry Island condition.

 

[Enthusiast]

Seems a shame to lose 84001 given that it was built in Glasgow. The trade off being a knackered 91 in worn out LNER livery? Will they wash the dead flies off the front at least?

But that knackered 91 holds the record for the fastest journey between Kings Cross and Waverley, I believe.

 

[william.martin]

But that knackered 91 holds the record for the fastest journey between Kings Cross and Waverley, I believe.

Yes, though it was not a regular service, instead it went fast through... Everywhere.

 

[DanNCL]

Seems a shame to lose 84001 given that it was built in Glasgow. The trade off being a knackered 91 in worn out LNER livery? Will they wash the dead flies off the front at least?

In the short term it’ll stay in VTEC Red, getting a clean up when it arrives at Bo’ness. There are plans in the longer term to do something about the loco’s appearance, but these aren’t public yet.

84001’s only connections to Scotland were being built in Glasgow and working the last few years of it’s career on workings to/from Glasgow (the 84s were the least successful of the early AC electrics, all withdrawn by the early 1980s).

On the other hand 91131 has three connections to Scotland, two of which are records. In addition to a 30 year career running between London and Edinburgh, 91131 also holds the record for the fastest London - Edinburgh journey, and more recently it became the first electric loco to haul a passenger train to Falkirk and Stirling.

Yes, though it was not a regular service, instead it went fast through... Everywhere.

The record for the fastest London - Edinburgh trip in regular service is still held by a 91, but not sure which one.

 

[sprinterguy]

But that knackered 91 holds the record for the fastest journey between Kings Cross and Waverley, I believe.

On the other hand 91131 has three connections to Scotland, two of which are records. In addition to a 30 year career running between London and Edinburgh, 91131 also holds the record for the fastest London - Edinburgh journey

91012 was the loco involved in the 3 hour 29 minute London - Edinburgh record run in September 1991 - I'm not sure why Wikipedia tries to claim otherwise.

91131 holds the record for fastest UK domestic train carrying passengers, achieving 154mph down Stoke Bank with a shortened 5 car mark 4 set on a press run in 1995.

 

[dmkc]

Any word on when 31 is moving north?

 

[BigB]

It is now property of SRPS, at last, but still parked up at Doncaster.
Plan is to come up to Scotland on 27th I believe. In an ideal world the same truck would also move The Great Marquis to Fife, but still needs a few things to line up.

 

[DarloRich]

it was still in Doncaster on Sunday evening!

 

[BigB]

it was still in Doncaster on Sunday evening!

And today, doesn't mean anything I said was was incorrect

 

[DarloRich]

And today, doesn't mean anything I said was was incorrect

i never said it did! it i off to Scotland at some point

 

[XAM2175]

91012 was the loco involved in the 3 hour 29 minute London - Edinburgh record run in September 1991 - I'm not sure why Wikipedia tries to claim otherwise.

Fixed that for you.

 

[DanNCL]

91131 was shunted from West Yard into Wabtec this morning by a pair of 08s.

 

[dmkc]

Might for for a wander down to the station tomorrow to see if any activity

 

[BigB]

Might for for a wander down to the station tomorrow to see if any activity

Unfortunately delayed again - the Museum is ready for it, it's just getting all the ducks lined up with external agencies to move it, which is surprisingly difficult....
It was far easier getting the 84 away from the site.....

 

[dmkc]

Any heads up come the time would be amazing if possible. Never watched a loco off load before!

 

[Strathclyder]

84001’s only connections to Scotland were being built in Glasgow and working the last few years of it’s career on workings to/from Glasgow (the 84s were the least successful of the early AC electrics, all withdrawn by the early 1980s).

And the only non-steam mainline loco built by NBL for BR that now survives. Not particularly successful, yes, but still worth mentioning nonetheless. Part of me wishes it were still up here, but, speaking personally as someone with a great fascination with NBL's BR diesel/electric locos, I'm just glad it survives, period. I'm just hoping (naively?) that the NRM places it on display in a prominent location as opposed to being stuffed into a corner or in a tent. Displaying it alongside 87001 would be very nice to see, but that's be a false hope me thinks.

 

[Towers]

I expect road transport, whilst expensive, is likely cheaper than loco hire, pathing costs plus the arrangement of whatever sort of inspection I presume is necesssary to confirm it's fit to go by rail?

 

[DanNCL]

And the only non-steam mainline loco built by NBL for BR that now survives. Not particularly successful, yes, but still worth mentioning nonetheless. Part of me wishes it were still up here, but, speaking personally as someone with a great fascination with NBL's BR diesel/electric locos, I'm just glad it survives, period. I'm just hoping (naively?) that the NRM places it on display in a prominent location as opposed to being stuffed into a corner or in a tent. Displaying it alongside 87001 would be very nice to see, but that's be a false hope me thinks.

87001 is underneath scaffolding in station hall so 84001 won’t be displayed with 87001. On the plus side though with station hall being a construction site, 84001 should get a spot in the Great Hall, quite possibly around the turntable.

 

[BigB]

So the latest plan is for the 91 to leave Doncaster tomorrow and arrive at Bo'ness on Wednesday.....
Hopefully all the ducks are lined up this time, and once on site the mega-shunt to get it in pride of place in the museum will commence!

 

[dmkc]

Fingers crossed for a successful move!