Advice on passing train compositions (WR, late 60s/early 70s)

[HighlandSpot]

Hello all,

In the process of building my next layout. The setting is Cornwall, possibly near Treesmill, between 1969-1971 (when almost all hydraulic classes incl. NBL type 2s still remained). I'm planning on having my Hymek hauling a decent size rake of milk tankers (9-12 of them), but I'm struggling to decide what to put on the track passing the milk train. I want the setting to be as realistic as possible. I'm considering a Class 22 on a special working (hauling an inspection saloon in BR blue/grey). Would it be realistic for these two trains to pass one another on a summer afternoon during this period in Cornwall? What other combinations would be realistic/accurate?

Thank you!

 

[30907]

Hello all,

In the process of building my next layout. The setting is Cornwall, possibly near Treesmill, between 1969-1971 (when almost all hydraulic classes incl. NBL type 2s still remained). I'm planning on having my Hymek hauling a decent size rake of milk tankers (9-12 of them), but I'm struggling to decide what to put on the track passing the milk train. I want the setting to be as realistic as possible. I'm considering a Class 22 on a special working (hauling an inspection saloon in BR blue/grey). Would it be realistic for these two trains to pass one another on a summer afternoon during this period in Cornwall? What other combinations would be realistic/accurate?

Thank you!

I certainly spotted a saloon in Cornwall in 71 or 72 (W9006/7W) though attached to a service train, so why not?
There weren't many class 2 l/h services by then, so for a D63xx/22 parcels or freight would be the other options.

 

[HighlandSpot]

I certainly spotted a saloon in Cornwall in 71 or 72 (W9006/7W) though attached to a service train, so why not?
There weren't many class 2 l/h services by then, so for a D63xx/22 parcels or freight would be the other options.

That's great! Do you recall what other rolling stock would have been on the service train? Also, for a Class 22, what would the appropriate length of vans be?

 

[John Webb]

Milk trains tended to run full to London in the early morning and return with the empties in the afternoon, so would it be realistic for a milk train to be on the move in Cornwall in the afternoon, allowing for transit time from London? Apologies if this puts a damper on your scenario!

 

[Gloster]

In 1973 the only milk from Cornwall was the 16.40 St Erth-Acton, although milk might have also been conveyed on the 14.45 Penzance-Paddington Perishables: both of these arrived in London in the early hours. The empties came back overnight, but there were a few local movements in the daytime. In 1971 there was a 14.50 St Erth to Kensington, as well as a 15.05 Penzance-Paddington, which may have been a Perishables conveying milk.

There weren’t many DMU workings around on the mainline, particularly west of Par, nor were there many parcels trains. Much of the traffic was carried by loco hauled trains to up country.

Two small points: an inspection saloon would probably still have been a GWR-design one and clay wagons weren‘t yet hoods, i.e. no tent on top. Parcels wagons would generally have been a mixture, but usually one would have a brake compartment for the guard to ride in and some trains were only formed with vans with a higher maximum speed.

 

[HighlandSpot]

Milk trains tended to run full to London in the early morning and return with the empties in the afternoon, so would it be realistic for a milk train to be on the move in Cornwall in the afternoon, allowing for transit time from London? Apologies if this puts a damper on your scenario!

I appreciate the help! Late afternoon/early evening empties run passing an inspection saloon? Would that be conceivable?

 

[John Webb]

I appreciate the help! Late afternoon/early evening empties run passing an inspection saloon? Would that be conceivable?

Possible, although unlikely from GLOSTER's post above with more detailed information than I had to hand. A look round for working time-tables (WTTs) might be worth doing?

 

[30907]

Possible, although unlikely from GLOSTER's post above with more detailed information than I had to hand. A look round for working time-tables (WTTs) might be worth doing?

Timetableworld.com has summer 1973 which confirms the details already posted - the local services are as I remember them from a couple of years earlier.

I've got a couple of WTTs for your period which I'm happy to dig out if you want to be ultra precise, but 1973 looks good enough.

Milk empties went West in the early hours, before an inspection saloon would have been out and about, so an Up Milk would be more plausible than empties.

 

[HighlandSpot]

Timetableworld.com has summer 1973 which confirms the details already posted - the local services are as I remember them from a couple of years earlier.

I've got a couple of WTTs for your period which I'm happy to dig out if you want to be ultra precise, but 1973 looks good enough.

Milk empties went West in the early hours, before an inspection saloon would have been out and about, so an Up Milk would be more plausible than empties.

Fantastic! Would the inspection saloon have been accompanied by other rolling stock or always alone? If so, do you know what might've been traveling along with it?

 

[Gloster]

Fantastic! Would the inspection saloon have been accompanied by other rolling stock or always alone? If so, do you know what might've been traveling along with it?

As far as I can remember, when carrying out an inspection trip a saloon would normally be the only vehicle behind the loco. If a saloon was being moved from one location to another without staff on board carrying out an inspection, it might have one or two passenger-rated vehicles attached in order to run at full line-speed: there were limits to train speed when a single vehicle was being hauled. When being transferred, it might also be attached to a passenger train.

N.b. my experience is from a decade later and inspection trips weren’t that common.