Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[6Gtraincrew]

231010 on duty today

 

[Dan G]

How many 231s are in service now, and how many are diagrammed daily?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

How many 231s are in service now, and how many are diagrammed daily?

1 diagrammed daily.
3 have entered service.

 

[AdamWW]

Do you have one of the leaflets?
I'm no expert in the standards but it's not fake to say "your new trains are here" or whatever when they're only on 1 line, they're running, and more will be with time.

And the leaflets make it very clear they are running only between Rhymny and Penarth at present (there's even a route diagram).

 

[Dan G]

1 diagrammed daily.
3 have entered service.

Thanks!

 

[Peter Sarf]

How many 231s are in service now, and how many are diagrammed daily?

As @SuperLuke2334 says
1 In service per day.
3 Have been used in service.
also
3 (up to) have been used on training in the same day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Today’s diagram starts with 0602 CDF PEN not the usual. It is 001.

 

[norbitonflyer]

"Modern Railways" reports that the 756s will enter service in the first quarter of 2025 (two years time), despite the first one already being at Canton depot. Is that a typo?

 

[anthony263]

"Modern Railways" reports that the 756s will enter service in the first quarter of 2025 (two years time), despite the first one already being at Canton depot. Is that a typo?

Need the Rhymney line to be wired first

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Need the Rhymney line to be wired first

why can't they run as battery+DMUs for a bit charging wherever they can while the line is electrified?

 

[AdamWW]

It’s a wonder that TfW don’t fall foul of the Advertising Standards Authority being as they are distributing leaflets about the new trains when only one is in service.

I really can't see why that's a problem.

I've just had a look at one of the leaflets.

The "headline" is "Metro trains are arriving in your area".

Inside it says "Customers travelling between Penarth and Rhymney will be the first to enjoy our new Metro trains".

I would struggle to interpret that as saying that they are already in widespread service. It doesn't even say that they have started in passenger operation already, for that matter. Just that they will.

There's plenty of things that I think TfW could be legitimately criticised for. But not this.

(Elsewhere people are complaining that TfW are being stupid for sending leaflets out to people living near stations that aren't on the Rhymney Line - but I think they are people who don't use public transport and haven't realised that unlike with a car people sometimes get on one train and then change onto another one to get to where they're going).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2023 ==

why can't they run as battery+DMUs for a bit charging wherever they can while the line is electrified?

You'd think that - at the least - they wouldn't need the full electrification scheme to be ready.

 

[anthony263]

why can't they run as battery+DMUs for a bit charging wherever they can while the line is electrified?

Dont forget they only got the 1 engine and don't think the batteries have enough range

 

[AdamWW]

Well, they have been operational four working days in a row!
Ironically, that’s a 398 in the picture.

If you look really carefully, there is small print at the bottom saying "Metro train pictured may vary by route"!

(Rather hard to read in the photo but I just noticed it's there on the leaflets).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Dont forget they only got the 1 engine and don't think the batteries have enough range

On AC power: 2,600 kW (3,500 hp) On battery power: 1,300 kW (1,700 hp) On diesel power: 480 kW (640 hp) Wikipedia Class 756

Power output	1,500 kW (2,000 hp) at wheel

Wikipedia Class 231

that diesel really is small, I assume it's only for recovery/depot movement/assisting battery usage then?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Dont forget they only got the 1 engine and don't think the batteries have enough range

Only one engine but wasn't there a suggestion that once the planned wiring is complete the batteries might be able to get them to Bridgend and back (via Barry) without using the diesel at all? If so, perhaps they could manage the Cardiff-Cheltenham using the OHLE as far as Severn Tunnel Junction? Not likely to happen of course unless the crew conversion course between 231s and 756s is really quick and simple. Also, there may be one 756 delivered, but are more due anytime soon or are they focusing on the 398s (and wiring the relevant valleys) first?

 

[Peter Sarf]

On AC power: 2,600 kW (3,500 hp) On battery power: 1,300 kW (1,700 hp) On diesel power: 480 kW (640 hp) Wikipedia Class 756

Power output	1,500 kW (2,000 hp) at wheel

Wikipedia Class 231

that diesel really is small, I assume it's only for recovery/depot movement/assisting battery usage then?

I think there is space for four diesel engines which the 231 have. But for a 756 only one endine is fitted with the other three slots containing batteries.

Now I would think that, since enough electrification is a long way of, it would make sense for the 756s to have more engines and less batteries. Then replace some of the engines with batteries as electrification makes possible. OK a bit more expense on engines which could be spare parts in the future but the batteries when actually needed will be newer.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think there is space for four diesel engines which the 231 have. But for a 756 only one endine is fitted with the other three slots containing batteries.

Now I would think that, since enough electrification is a long way of, it would make sense for the 756s to have more engines and less batteries. Then replace some of the engines with batteries as electrification makes possible. OK a bit more expense on engines which could be spare parts in the future but the batteries when actually needed will be newer.

Seems an awful waste - is there nothing else they could be used for until the line is ready? (Even if they have to be subleased to another operator)

 

[Dai Corner]

Seems an awful waste - is there nothing else they could be used for until the line is ready? (Even if they have to be subleased to another operator)

I imagine delivery of the 756s will coincide with the Rhymney valley electrification being completed as far as possible. TfW won't want to start paying leasing charges if they can't use them.

 

[AdamWW]

I imagine delivery of the 756s will coincide with the Rhymney valley electrification being completed as far as possible. TfW won't want to start paying leasing charges if they can't use them.

I have no idea how these trains are being financed, but can they really just have them put in storage and not have to pay anything until they decide they want to use the trains?

 

[Speed43125]

I have no idea how these trains are being financed, but can they really just have them put in storage and not have to pay anything until they decide they want to use the trains?

Have they been built in any numbers yet? Stadler strike me as possibly pretty flexible on build dates.

 

[Dai Corner]

I have no idea how these trains are being financed, but can they really just have them put in storage and not have to pay anything until they decide they want to use the trains?

I don't know whether they've even been built yet? No doubt the relevant dates and what happens if any party fails to adhere to them will be in the contracts between TfW, Stadler and the Rosco.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I went to Cardiff on Monday (30th January 2023) to sample a 231 (231010 is was and first day in passenger service) and I must say I am very impressed with them.

Good things:
2 + 2 seating
Comfortable seats
Disabled accessible area
Fold down seats
Ride quality is smooth and quiet
Level boarding is fantastic
Some seats with tables are aligned with windows.
Wifi with realtime information and onward travel information on your phone when you connect to the Wifi
Charging devices for phones and laptops
Accessible toilet
Information display is good and the on board announcements are loud and clear

Bad things:
Only one accessible toilet for 4 coaches. Could do with a standard toilet in there as well
No carpets through out the train. Only carpets/mats by the doors.
Could do with trip hazard signs if your on the high level seats so you don't trip over the step.

Overall opinion:
Fantastic trains and will change how the passenger will travel with the level boarding.
Score: 8/10

 

[Trainbike46]

It would make sense for stadler to have build one 756 to allow testing to start, and then have focused on getting the 231s/398s/other orders out, and for them to build the rest of the 756s last, shortly before electrification is complete. Though I don't have any evidence that this happened

 

[CapitalStar378]

It would make sense for stadler to have build one 756 to allow testing to start, and then have focused on getting the 231s/398s/other orders out, and for them to build the rest of the 756s last, shortly before electrification is complete. Though I don't have any evidence that this happened

The 398s are being built in Valencia so wouldn't affect the FLIRT builds.

If Modern Railways are saying 2025 for the Rhymney line electrification, this is way behind schedule, any confirmation from TfW about this?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is the 231 out today? TfW are running a normal service.

 

[AdamWW]

Is the 231 out today? TfW are running a normal service.

Realtimetrains says that 231001 is currently in passenger service.

 

[MikePJ]

Is the 231 out today? TfW are running a normal service.

Yes. Today’s unit is 231001, RealTimeTrains link

 

[6Gtraincrew]

First day in passenger service for 231006

 

[CapitalStar378]

When will more 231s start passenger service? Seems to be just the one unit per day on limited runs atm.

 

[Bob Price]

Looks like they are testing all 11 units before they up the ante.