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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Snow1964

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As highlighted a couple of pages back here it's to comply with TfL requirements for 2024.

TfL seem to have moved from assuming passengers won't step out in traffic in front of a bus, to trying to make front of bus spread the impact and removing sharp bits like wipers from waist height (they have to be top hung). More pedestrian collision friendly.

If it actually makes any difference, or if emergency stops result in those standing being flung forward and hitting inside of windscreen instead remains to be seen.
 
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Goldfish62

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TfL seem to have moved from assuming passengers won't step out in traffic in front of a bus, to trying to make front of bus spread the impact and removing sharp bits like wipers from waist height (they have to be top hung). More pedestrian collision friendly.

If it actually makes any difference, or if emergency stops result in those standing being flung forward and hitting inside of windscreen instead remains to be seen.
It's as a result of research undertaken by the Transport Research Laboratory, an organisation which has done so much to improve vehicle safety over the decades.

Bull bars on the front of cars were banned because of the severity of injuries they caused in collisions with pedestrians.
 

Jordan Adam

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Is it actually glass, or just a bit of black paint? It's difficult to tell from the illustration, but I tend to agree with you that it's odd.

I quite like the new style.
On the Enviro500EV thats currently in build its just black paint.
 

MotCO

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ADL-Enviro100EV-boxout-text-1-654x420.jpg
The video (at 33 seconds) lists the products as
  • Enviro200EV
  • Enviro400FCEV
  • Enviro400H
  • Enviro400EV
  • Enviro500EV
and Enviro200EV XLB

What is this XLB? I've heard of the Enviro400XLB, but not a Enviro200XLB. Is it an export model?
Also, no mention of the Enviro100.
 

GusB

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The video (at 33 seconds) lists the products as
  • Enviro200EV
  • Enviro400FCEV
  • Enviro400H
  • Enviro400EV
  • Enviro500EV
and Enviro200EV XLB

What is this XLB? I've heard of the Enviro400XLB, but not a Enviro200XLB. Is it an export model?
Also, no mention of the Enviro100.
The current E200XLB is for the New Zealand market.


I assume a 200EV XLB would be for the same market.
 

JumpinTrainz

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The video (at 33 seconds) lists the products as
  • Enviro200EV
  • Enviro400FCEV
  • Enviro400H
  • Enviro400EV
  • Enviro500EV
and Enviro200EV XLB

What is this XLB? I've heard of the Enviro400XLB, but not a Enviro200XLB. Is it an export model?
Also, no mention of the Enviro100.
It looks as though the E200EV has reverted back to the smaller wheels like on the MMC.
 

Jordan Adam

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The Hong Kong ones have a glazed staircase. The grab rails are clearly visible through the glazing.
We were talking about the black triangle corners under the first window either side of the upper deck above where the camera mirrors are. On the illustration of the Stagecoach Enviro400EV they appear to be glazed however on the Enviro500EV currently in build it's just black paint. I would post the photo of the Enviro500EV on the production line if i knew the source as it's already doing the rounds on social media, however the source listed is a Reddit page which has since been deleted!

The Enviro500EV currently on the production line looks much better than the renders. However it's quite apparent that this is just a significantly facelifted version of the current Enviro range rather than a new bus from the ground up like the MMC was. One notably change however is that the skirt panels are now once piece rather than being split 1/3rd of the way up.
 

Goldfish62

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On the Enviro500EV thats currently in build its just black paint.
Yes OK, but which customer? Not Hong Kong certainly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It looks as though the E200EV has reverted back to the smaller wheels like on the MMC.
But ADL haven't (yet) announced an E200EV of their own. So either BYD have redesigned the chassis with smaller wheels or it's an error with the renders.
 
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Snow1964

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42 Mellor Sigma 7 electric buses have been ordered by Connect Bus which will join 4 already in Sweden

Connect Bus has ordered 42 all-electric Mellor Sigma 7 buses to be used for on-call services on Västraffik’s Flex line. The buses will be operated by Connect Bus under a contract with Vastraffik, the agency responsible for public transportation in Sweden’s Vastra Gotaland region. The order follows 2022 Sigma 7 deliveries already in service in Gothenburg.

The new buses will add to Connect Bus’ existing fleet of Mellor flatbed Orion E minibuses, introduced in March 2020. Deliveries of the new buses will begin in the second quarter of 2023 and will be made by BK invest, Mellor’s Scandinavian distribution partner.

With this latest order, Mellor strengthens its position in the Nordic market. The brand recently delivered the first of four Sigma 7s to Nobina, Sweden’s largest public transport operator, for its services in Gothenburg.

 

Hullian111

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It is also to some extent an upto date electric replacement for Optare Solo and Wrightbus Streetlite
Now there's a thought. ADL have the E100EV and Switch have the MetroCity, but what do Wright have besides the full-length GB Kite Electroliner? If smaller ops start getting the infrastructure to go electric in the next few years, I'm seeing a gap in the midibus market Wrightbus could lose out on unless they can pull out a shorter Kite Electroliner or equivalent.
 

Hullian111

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Would Wright develop an electric Streetlite?
Not sure, honestly. StreetLite orders have dropped off considerably (if BLotW is correct) since Bamford bought Wright out, with only Rotala, Arriva Merseyside and First Hampshire/West Yorks making up the 'big' orders, so if those groups want an electric bus shorter than the conventional Kite, maybe Wright could pick up the StreetLite again. Or, more likely, they'll just make a shorter Kite.

I'm no industry expert, but I believe the StreetLite might be dropped from the Wright range unless some significant orders/changes bring it back to how popular it used to be around 2014 or so.
 

M803UYA

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Not sure, honestly. StreetLite orders have dropped off considerably (if BLotW is correct) since Bamford bought Wright out, with only Rotala, Arriva Merseyside and First Hampshire/West Yorks making up the 'big' orders, so if those groups want an electric bus shorter than the conventional Kite, maybe Wright could pick up the StreetLite again. Or, more likely, they'll just make a shorter Kite.

I'm no industry expert, but I believe the StreetLite might be dropped from the Wright range unless some significant orders/changes bring it back to how popular it used to be around 2014 or so.
Was Streetlite really that popular? A lot of customers were forced onto them and didn't return for seconds...... they just went elsewhere to have their Volvo chassis bodied.

Bamford is big on hydrogen as a fuel source - which accounts for their market share of zero emission vehicles.
 

Volvodart

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What are Rotala ordering for Manchester? They have bought Streetlites in the past.
 
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After getting curious about what buses and chassis Volvo are still offering in the UK, I had a quick look at MCV website which has had a refresh since the last time I looked. Despite Volvo taking the B5TL chassis off their own website, it appears that MCV are still offering this in the UK.

Are MCV buses constructed in the UK on chassis or are they built in Egypt?

Also I see that Plaxton now offers the Elite on a B8R chassis, surely that would feel a little underpowered given the weight it could carry.

Additionally, the 10.8m MCV Evora on Volvo B8RLE seems to be quite a popular choice for some; Lothian buses have 12.9m models including Stagecoach in Orkney, I guess for capacity reasons.
 
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GusB

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Also I see that Plaxton now offers the Elite on a B8R chassis, surely that would feel a little underpowered given the weight it could carry.
Not necessarily. The power outputs from smaller engines is much greater than it used to be, so this isn't necessarily a handicap.
 

Eyersey468

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After getting curious about what buses and chassis Volvo are still offering in the UK, I had a quick look at MCV website which has had a refresh since the last time I looked. Despite Volvo taking the B5TL chassis off their own website, it appears that MCV are still offering this in the UK.

Are MCV buses constructed in the UK on chassis or are they built in Egypt?

Also I see that Plaxton now offers the Elite on a B8R chassis, surely that would feel a little underpowered given the weight it could carry.

Additionally, the 10.8m MCV Evora on Volvo B8RLE seems to be quite a popular choice for some; Lothian buses have 12.9m models including Stagecoach in Orkney, I guess for capacity reasons.
They are built in Egypt
 

Mikey C

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The new electric Volvo BZL is being bodied by MCV (both single and double decker variants).

I'm still unconvinced that dumping this business and producing their own integral vehicles was a good move by the likes of Wright and Switch/Optare/East Lancs. The MetroDecker in particular has flopped.
 

Jordan Adam

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After getting curious about what buses and chassis Volvo are still offering in the UK, I had a quick look at MCV website which has had a refresh since the last time I looked. Despite Volvo taking the B5TL chassis off their own website, it appears that MCV are still offering this in the UK.
Even if they are still offered, it has been quite a number of years since any were built. It's fair to say the Streetdeck has eaten in to a lot of the Volvo decker market. Although i can see the new Volvo BZL chassis proving popular, especially since it's probably the only decker on the market that could be suited to interurban style routes thanks to it's 60mph top speed.
Also I see that Plaxton now offers the Elite on a B8R chassis, surely that would feel a little underpowered given the weight it could carry.
This has been offered for a while, the B8R with I-Shift is okay in the shorter Elites. It's the larger Panther LEs which have the ZF Ecolife gearbox that are underpowered.
Additionally, the 10.8m MCV Evora on Volvo B8RLE seems to be quite a popular choice for some; Lothian buses have 12.9m models including Stagecoach in Orkney, I guess for capacity reasons.
Stagecoach Highlands have 37 in total split between Orkney and Skye with a further 20 on order for Inverness/Aviemore. The total fleet of 57 will consist of 46 12.9M examples and 11 10.8M examples. The 12.9M examples have tracking in the wheelchair area which allows for an extra row of seats to be fitted bringing the total seat capacity to 49 therefore allowing them to be used on the school contracts.
 
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Even if they are still offered, it has been quite a number of years since any were built. It's fair to say the Streetdeck has eaten in to a lot of the Volvo decker market. Although i can see the new Volvo BZL chassis proving popular, especially since it's probably the only decker on the market that could be suited to interurban style routes thanks to it's 60mph top speed.
Presumably the total ownership cost of integrals such as the Streetdecks & 400MMC is of a lesser amount.

Having driven 200EV models from ADL limited to 42mph on motorways is poor, I’ve been reading that the Volvo BZL actually has the 12speed iShift it’s simply locked to only using 2 of those ratios given the electric motor mass torque.

This has been offered for a while, the B8R with I-Shift is okay in the shorter Elites. It's the larger Panther LEs which have the ZF Ecolife gearbox that are underpowered.
Having never driven it was why I was asking, however, previous B7R models with ZF Ecomats moved well enough, I presume that the Elite models may be heavier than previous B7R models despite this the B8K engine has more power & torque.

Stagecoach Highlands have 37 in total split between Orkney and Skye with a further 20 on order for Inverness/Aviemore. The total fleet of 57 will consist of 46 12.9M examples and 11 10.8M examples. The 12.9M examples have tracking in the wheelchair area which allows for an extra row of seats to be fitted bringing the total seat capacity to 49 therefore allowing them to be used on the school contracts.
I thought that Orkney & Skye would be very quiet indeed, not requiring such vehicles.
 

Jordan Adam

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Presumptively the total ownership cost of integrals such as the Streetdecks & 400MMC is of a lesser amount.
Additionally the B5TL doesn't fall under the bus service operator grant LCEB (Low Carbon Emission Bus) incentive, whereas the Streetdeck does.
Having driven 200EV models from ADL limited to 42mph on motorways is poor, I’ve been reading that the Volvo BZL actually has the 12speed iShift it’s simply locked to only using 2 of those ratios given the electric motor mass torque.
Indeed, hence the higher top speed. Although the Yutongs depending how set up are capable of 60MPH using only one gear. In fairness given most electric buses thus far have been designed for city operation i wouldn't say the 40-45mph top speed is that big of an issue, but i agree if EVs are going to be the norm there does need to be products which offer a 60mph top speed.
Having never driven it was why I was asking, however, previous B7R models with ZF Ecomats moved well enough, I presume that the Elite models may be heavier than previous B7R models despite this the B8K engine has more power & torque.
I think the issue with the B7Rs was also more endurance rather than performance itself; somewhat similar to the B5TL when used on faster routes, that's part of the reason why Stagecoach had so many thermal incidents with them. Especially on the B-Road type routes the B7Rs would always be hunting between 4th, 5th and 6th gear whereas a coach with a more powerful engine wouldn't need to.

It'll be interesting to see how the B8R Elites and B8RLE Panther LEs cope further down the line.
I thought that Orkney & Skye would be very quiet indeed, not requiring such vehicles.
The 12.9M ones are mainly for school contracts, otherwise they would probably have been 12M or more 10.8M examples. As mentioned the ability to get 49 seaters in the 12.9M Evora was probably the main selling point (aside from the Volvo chassis). A number of the longer Evoras (21xxx) up on Orkney are permanently set up as 49 seaters and as such don't tend to see full front line service. Some of the routes can be quite busy especially in the summer, Orkney had a number of Tridents on loan a few years back for capacity on the X1.
 
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Presumably that is somewhat of a stopgap as it sounds like simplification is in order to reduce weight - why lug 10 extra gears around if they're not needed?
I do admit this is an educated guess!!

Much information can be pulled from items of news around the Volvo empire including some technology that are used from Trucks into Buses etc, if you search Carwow on YouTube for Volvo Truck reviews for there latest models it’s stated in the video that there Electric Cab has the 12 speed iShift but only utilises 2 of its ratios.

In hindsight however this may be incorrect for the BZL chassis given that it naturally carries less weight than a truck potentially weighing 44tons, You can find a diagram of the current BZL Electric chassis, specifically it’s electric motor and gearbox on Volvos own website which is fact looks like the same as found on Volvo Trucks lighter FL truck range(Photos Attached).

And in fact if it is a purpose built 2-speed automated manual that can be used across different builds and save weight then it more likely is physically a 2-speed only transmission.

Additionally the B5TL doesn't fall under the bus service operator grant LCEB (Low Carbon Emission Bus) incentive, whereas the Streetdeck does.
Every pennies a prisoner.

Indeed, hence the higher top speed. Although the Yutongs depending how set up are capable of 60MPH using only one gear. In fairness given most electric buses thus far have been designed for city operation i wouldn't say the 40-45mph top speed is that big of an issue, but i agree if EVs are going to be the norm there does need to be products which offer a 60mph top speed.
it’s not a big issue until such vehicles frequent dual-carriageways and motorways, even if only occasionally.

I think the issue with the B7Rs was also more endurance rather than performance itself; somewhat similar to the B5TL when used on faster routes, that's part of the reason why Stagecoach had so many thermal incidents with them. Especially on the B-Road type routes the B7Rs would always be hunting between 4th, 5th and 6th gear whereas a coach with a more powerful engine wouldn't need to.

It'll be interesting to see how the B8R Elites and B8RLE Panther LEs cope further down the line.
I guess that B8 models are rated for 62mph even when specified with the Full Auto ZF?
 

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Hullian111

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First Bus has ordered 117 more battery-electric vehicles from Wrightbus for four fleets in England. It comes after the Department for Transport (DfT) allocated £25.3 million of extra funding to existing successful Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) bids in Hampshire and Portsmouth, Norfolk, West Yorkshire, and York.
The order takes to 310 the number of battery-electric buses due from Wrightbus for First Bus. It will enable the group’s operation in York and one of its depots in Norwich to become fully battery-electric by March 2024,
Er, hang on... didn't York just get eleven diesel StreetDecks delivered?
 
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Hullian111

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They'll be moved elsewhere, similar to what has happened in Glasgow where the arrival of EVs has allowed 4 year old E400MMCs to transfer south.
If that's the plan, no wonder no news mags made any fuss about the StreetDecks...

Not even a year old now and in for cascade next year? Crazy. Wonder where they'll go.
 

JumpinTrainz

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If that's the plan, no wonder no news mags made any fuss about the StreetDecks...

Not even a year old now and in for cascade next year? Crazy. Wonder where they'll go.
It’s pretty normal for this to happen. I think it balances out the fleet age profile.

Glasgow’s 38 and 75 routes saw new branded E400MMC and a few years later are now seeing E400EVs. It happened a lot in the Overground days - Parkhead depot saw a rotation of new buses over the space of about 4 years at one stage.
 

ChrisPJ

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Firstbus buying new vehicles then transferring them to another opco a year or two later is far from normal.
 

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