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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

PG

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It'll be interesting to see if the characteristic squeaks and rattles are eliminated from Alexanders bodywork with the absence of a diesel engine or if the vibrations inherent with an ICE have not been the cause.

I can see this gaining a respectable market share being as it is from a major player in the domestic market. Can't see many operators risking ordering from Switch due to delivery dates being elastic, and Mellor still seen as primarily a supplier of throwaway minibuses to local authorities.
 
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Snow1964

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Clearly the E100EV is a rival to the short Metrocity and apart from the claimed greater range has the advantages of not being Switch and being narrower. One thing about the design though is that rural operators tend to like generous ground clearance on the rear overhang for obvious reasons, but this doesn't appear to have a lot.

It is also to some extent an upto date electric replacement for Optare Solo and Wrightbus Streetlite

I get the reasoning for the small wheels, to minimise saloon incursion, but I do wonder if these will cause problems on rough country roads. It looks more like a minibus that has been stretched to a box shape like a shipping container, then a row of windows added.

I do wonder about the TfL version, there are only handful of routes that need slim short buses, something like 10 buses for whole of London. I do wonder if they are doing it for ego reasons rather than commercial reasons.

Oddly I see more of a market for it as a shuttle in narrow old city centres, a service for those with mobility problems rather than operating quiet rural routes where emissions are not a big worry.
 

Goldfish62

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I do wonder about the TfL version, there are only handful of routes that need slim short buses, something like 10 buses for whole of London. I do wonder if they are doing it for ego reasons rather than commercial reasons.
Actually, there's a lot of routes in London which require this size of bus, some of them high frequency, eg route 192, and currently it's only the electric Metrocity which fits the bill. The 322 uses the Metrocity because there was no choice given the size restrictions.
 

scosutsut

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I think a "pure" AD Enviro EV200 is inevitable as the announced Enviro EV400 steps on the toes of the existing BYD 400 and restores the usual position for AD where they get 100% of an order, not just bodywork only.
 

Snow1964

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Actually, there's a lot of routes in London which require this size of bus, some of them high frequency, eg route 192, and currently it's only the electric Metrocity which fits the bill. The 322 uses the Metrocity because there was no choice given the size restrictions.
No TfL puts it in categories by capacity and length.
The 322 is officially 45 capacity 8.8-9m, even though the Metrocity are only 8.74m

I admit I got it wrong guessing 10 buses, just checked the most recent TfL fleet audit and it is 13 buses in smallest category (see table 7), although 13 includes spares, so is about 10 in service.

 

Goldfish62

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No TfL puts it in categories by capacity and length.
The 322 is officially 45 capacity 8.8-9m, even though the Metrocity are only 8.74m

I admit I got it wrong guessing 10 buses, just checked the most recent TfL fleet audit and it is 13 buses in smallest category (see table 7), although 13 includes spares, so is about 10 in service.

Sorry, but the E100EV is firmly the same category at the route 322 requirement. In fact a TfL operator recently said to me that they were very interested in the arrival of the E100 as it gives a viable alternative to the Metrocity.

The smallest E200EV available is the 9.8m version so currently ADL has nothing to satisfy the substantial "single door 45 capacity" London market. The E100EV addresses that.

PS TfL does not specify buses by size, but by minimum capacity and number of doors. Size is only specified by route, namely the maximum size vehicle that has been successfully route tested.

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I think a "pure" AD Enviro EV200 is inevitable as the announced Enviro EV400 steps on the toes of the existing BYD 400 and restores the usual position for AD where they get 100% of an order, not just bodywork only.
I tend to agree. Wouldn't be surprised if it's announced at the NEC in October.
 
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ChrisPJ

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BBC Guernsey are tweeting today that a Yutong E9 is being tested out, is that the first one?
 

MotCO

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The 322 uses the Metrocity because there was no choice given the size restrictions.
That's a ringing endorsement for the Metrocity! Is it that bad?

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BBC Guernsey are tweeting today that a Yutong E9 is being tested out, is that the first one?
Wasn't a AD400 EV tried in Guernsey previously (or maybe Jersey)?
 

Mikey C

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Surely BYD won't just let their sales dwindle as ADL move towards their integral products? I assume they'll either find a new local partner or start selling integral buses themselves.
 

Russel

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Likewise London orders caused ADL to modify their E400MMMC body to fit the Volvo B5LH, and before that producing some E400 bodied B9TLs for Dublin Bus. One curio was the unique E400 bodied B7TL SN56AWX which recently entered preservation.

East Yorkshire also have a small batch of B9TL bodied E400s.

Surprised to learn an E400 was built on a B7TL chassis!
 

scosutsut

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Surely BYD won't just let their sales dwindle as ADL move towards their integral products? I assume they'll either find a new local partner or start selling integral buses themselves.
They are getting ready to launch their cars in the UK as I understand it, so I wouldn't count them out yet.

However I can't think of anyone with significant UK marketplace experience they could team up with that doesn't already have their own electric product (ADL, Wright, Optare/Switch) or are in bed with someone else (MCV with Volvo)

So going solo seems in my mind their only option.
 

Goldfish62

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Surely BYD won't just let their sales dwindle as ADL move towards their integral products? I assume they'll either find a new local partner or start selling integral buses themselves.
Given the enormous volumes that BYD produce (they supplied 16000 electric buses to Schenzen, China, for example), the UK market is relatively small fry, especially with fresh competition from Volvo and Wrightbus.

I don't think BYD will lose too much sleep.
 

Snow1964

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Alexander Dennis has received order for 55 enviro400EV for Oxford from Stagecoach

NFI Group Inc. (“NFI” or the “Company”), a leading independent bus and coach manufacturer and a leader in electric mass mobility solutions, subsidiary Alexander Dennis Limited (“Alexander Dennis”) today announced that transport group Stagecoach has placed the first order for the manufacturer’s next-generation battery-electric buses, taking 55 Enviro400EV double-deck buses for its operation in Oxfordshire as part of the UK Government’s Zero-Emission Bus Regional Areas (“ZEBRA”) scheme.

Stagecoach is working with Oxfordshire County Council to decarbonize buses in and around Oxford thanks to funding from the UK Department of Transport as part of the Government’s ZEBRA scheme.

Britain’s largest bus operator will introduce 55 electric Enviro400EV on its Oxford city and Oxfordshire networks from late 2023, becoming the first customer to place a firm order for the new battery-electric double decker fully designed and built by Alexander Dennis.

Part of the next generation of Alexander Dennis zero-emission buses, the Enviro400EV is a battery-electric double decker to move large numbers of people on busy urban corridors and interurban expresses with an operational range of up to 260 miles on a single charge. Passengers will benefit from smooth rides and an improved lower deck seating layout.

The Enviro400EV uses a Voith Electrical Drive System next-generation electric driveline as well as the future-proof Alexander Dennis battery system, which ensures continuity of supply throughout vehicle life and will allow Stagecoach to benefit from technology advancements at a mid-life refresh without the need for vehicle modifications.​


Also appears Go Ahead has placed order for 104 buses from Wrightbus comprising 5 single deck, 91 double deck and 8 open top double deck

The order will comprise 5 single and 99 double-decker buses, to be manufactured in Northern Ireland by Wrightbus, and all vehicles will be fitted with free customer WiFi, at-seat USB chargers and audio-visual next stop announcement systems as standard.

8 of the double-decker buses will be open-topped, to support the company’s popular City Sightseeing tour route, and once all buses are in service all local bus routes wholly within the Oxford urban area will be converted to zero-emission operation.

Go-Ahead is investing more than £30 million in the buses, alongside funding from Oxfordshire County Council and from the Department for Transport’s Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) scheme. This is part of a total package of £82.5 million of funding for 159 buses for operators in Oxford, which will become one of Britain’s leading electric bus cities.


159 buses electric buses for Oxford were part of the zero emission ZEBRA award
 
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Volvodart

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Go Ahead are from Wrightbus, a few single deckers and open tops but mostly double deckers

https://newsroom.go-ahead.com/news/...ord-bus-company-orders-104-all-electric-buses

Zero emission transport for the Dreaming Spires: Oxford Bus Company orders 104 all-electric buses
Buses to be part of a 159-strong zero emission fleet on Oxford’s streets from late 2023
Go-Ahead’s largest electric bus order to date accelerates the group’s green transition
Environmental impact will be equivalent to taking 6,000 cars off the road
Co-funded by Go-Ahead, Oxfordshire County Council and the Department for Transport
Passengers in Oxford will benefit from a brand new fleet of zero emission buses on the city’s streets later this year, following an order placed by The Go-Ahead Group for 104 electric vehicles.

The deal is Go-Ahead’s biggest electric bus order to date, adding to the group’s 350-strong fleet of plug-in buses across Britain, and is a further step towards a goal of a zero-emission fleet nationwide by 2035.

The order will comprise 5 single and 99 double-decker buses, to be manufactured in Northern Ireland by Wrightbus, and all vehicles will be fitted with free customer WiFi, at-seat USB chargers and audio-visual next stop announcement systems as standard.

8 of the double-decker buses will be open-topped, to support the company’s popular City Sightseeing tour route, and once all buses are in service all local bus routes wholly within the Oxford urban area will be converted to zero-emission operation.

Go-Ahead is investing more than £30 million in the buses, alongside funding from Oxfordshire County Council and from the Department for Transport’s Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) scheme. This is part of a total package of £82.5 million of funding for 159 buses for operators in Oxford, which will become one of Britain’s leading electric bus cities.

The buses are part of a package of improvements for bus travellers in Oxford. Passengers will also benefit from speedier journeys with the installation of several new traffic filters in the city, an expanded zero emission zone and through additional bus priority schemes implemented by Oxfordshire County Council.

The buses will save an estimated 6,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions each year – the equivalent of taking more than 3,900 cars off the road.

Luke Marion, Managing Director of the Oxford Bus Company, said: “This is a fantastic day for bus passengers in Oxford. We’re proud to be ordering a fleet of state-of-the-art, UK-made electric buses which will be cleaner and healthier for local residents, and offer a quieter, more comfortable ride for customers.”

The mobilisation of these buses will see Oxford Bus Company become the second largest bus operator of zero emission buses within the Go-Ahead Group, behind Go Ahead London. Once on the road in late 2023, it will bring the total number of zero emission buses within the Go-Ahead Group to 456.

Ben Werth, Chief Commercial Officer at Wrightbus, said: “We are, through this significant order, delighted to be working with Go-Ahead to further demonstrate their commitment to offering zero-emission public transport. It has been a real team effort between Wrightbus and the Oxford Bus Company to deliver this exciting project. All of the buses will be manufactured and assembled at our Ballymena factory, which means support for jobs in Northern Ireland, and wider across the UK through our domestic supply chain."

Christian Schreyer, Group Chief Executive, The Go-Ahead Group, said: “This is a step towards our goal of a zero-emission bus fleet nationwide by 2035. It’s important to remember that decarbonising vehicles is only part of the challenge – we also need to encourage more people out of their cars and onto public transport. It’s great to see Oxford taking progressive measures to prioritise buses over private cars.”

In December, Go-Ahead opened a Zero Emission Centre of Excellence aimed at developing best practice in operating electric and hydrogen buses. The group already operates electric buses in London, Newcastle, Manchester, and Salisbury, and has ordered a fleet of hydrogen buses for the Crawley and Gatwick Airport area.
 

Mikey C

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Interesting that this is the launch order for the E400EV, and that nearly all the buses between the two orders are for double deckers

5 Wright single deckers
8 Wright open toppers
55 E400EVs
91 Wright double deckers
 

Russel

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Assume the Go Ahead order will create a lot of stock to cascade to other operations, given the Oxford fleet is fairly modern already?
 

Snow1964

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Assume the Go Ahead order will create a lot of stock to cascade to other operations, given the Oxford fleet is fairly modern already?
Logically yes for both Go Ahead and Stagecoach fleet, although Stagecoach have 200 diesel double decks on order (announced few weeks ago)

But seeing as the first buses for Oxford are not due until late 2023, and I suspect will take most of 2024 too. The cascades around the country of displaced buses are not really for the manufacturer thread though.
 
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We’ve had a Mellor test bus in York this past weekend. On show at the Hilton whilst York Council consult on a town service. Can’t attach a photo right now but will later on

Had a little chat to the staff and they said it’s getting 170 miles/charge and is doing Scarbs - York at 8am, in York all day on display and back to Scarbados at 5pm with no worries
 

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Surreyman

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Alexander Dennis has received order for 55 enviro400EV for Oxford from Stagecoach




Also appears Go Ahead has placed order for 104 buses from Wrightbus comprising 5 single deck, 91 double deck and 8 open top double deck




159 buses electric buses for Oxford were part of the zero emission ZEBRA award
Will the double deckers be 'full height' given that the bridge next to Oxford station is due to be raised?
 

fgwrich

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Interesting that this is the launch order for the E400EV

While it isn't too dissimilar (thankfully) from the current MMC body, I do still find that little triangular upper deck window or piece of glass a little odd. There's no need for them to copy Wrights (keep the awful angular stuff to them!).
 

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Goldfish62

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While it isn't too dissimilar (thankfully) from the current MMC body, I do still find that little triangular upper deck window or piece of glass a little odd. There's no need for them to copy Wrights (keep the awful angular stuff to them!).
I wasn't sure about the MMC design at first, but came to love it. I think this will be the same.
 

GusB

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While it isn't too dissimilar (thankfully) from the current MMC body, I do still find that little triangular upper deck window or piece of glass a little odd. There's no need for them to copy Wrights (keep the awful angular stuff to them!).
Is it actually glass, or just a bit of black paint? It's difficult to tell from the illustration, but I tend to agree with you that it's odd.

I quite like the new style.
 

M803UYA

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I wasn't sure about the MMC design at first, but came to love it. I think this will be the same.
I liked the MMC design from the moment I saw it. ADL took a pre-production bus to my employers back in 2014 and they were quite happy for us to look around it. I'm not so sure about this new iteration of the MMC, though.
 

DickWolf

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aca99ae2-4c87-49bf-b4a4-8a3e32dc812e


When a transport authority requirements shapes the look of a bus. Still. I quite like the new look Enviro 400 and it looks fantastic in the Stagecoach livery. Though I like the all new E500 variety better as it looks meaner and I had hoped the E400 front end would look the same. And the lower window profile variety would be solely for the streets of London. Like the bug-eyed Wrights. Looks like the southeast Asian countries and the Americas will get the better of the new look design.
 

scosutsut

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We’ve had a Mellor test bus in York this past weekend. On show at the Hilton whilst York Council consult on a town service. Can’t attach a photo right now but will later on

Had a little chat to the staff and they said it’s getting 170 miles/charge and is doing Scarbs - York at 8am, in York all day on display and back to Scarbados at 5pm with no worries
It's a shame it looks like something a child drew though!

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aca99ae2-4c87-49bf-b4a4-8a3e32dc812e


When a transport authority requirements shapes the look of a bus. Still. I quite like the new look Enviro 400 and it looks fantastic in the Stagecoach livery. Though I like the all new E500 variety better as it looks meaner and I had hoped the E400 front end would look the same. And the lower window profile variety would be solely for the streets of London. Like the bug-eyed Wrights. Looks like the southeast Asian countries and the Americas will get the better of the new look design.
What is the logic of the giant front windscreen? It's not improving visibility for anyone being set that low is it?

I'm still coming to terms with the overall design. It's going to look really messy with the AD badge, Stagey fleetname and the reg plate all stacked on top of each other. I don't get the obsession with gloss black panels on the front reducing real estate for things that need to be there.

Overall a retrograde step over the MMC but I'll reserve full judgement till I see one in the flesh.
 
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PG

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What is the logic of the giant front windscreen? It's not improving visibility for anyone being set that low is it?
Surely it improves the drivers visability? e.g. small child running out stands a better chance of being seen than with a higher bottom edge of the windscreen.

EDIT
I'm also curious where the driver is now looking to view the road each side of the bus? Presumably a couple of small monitors in the instrument binnacle?
Genuine question as I've only driven a bus with a reversing camera in addition to side mirrors and I found it a distraction from looking in the mirrors to check down below my eye line for the reversing monitor as well. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned :o
 
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DickWolf

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It's a shame it looks like something a child drew though!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


What is the logic of the giant front windscreen? It's not improving visibility for anyone being set that low is it?

I'm still coming to terms with the overall design. It's going to look really messy with the AD badge, Stagey fleetname and the reg plate all stacked on top of each other. I don't get the obsession with gloss black panels on the front reducing real estate for things that need to be there.

Overall a retrograde step over the MMC but I'll reserve full judgement till I see one in the flesh.

As highlighted a couple of pages back here it's to comply with TfL requirements for 2024.

And if you skip to 3 minutes 25, it tells you it's for enhanced passive safety.


But that does not apply to the E500 model.

ADL-Enviro100EV-boxout-text-1-654x420.jpg
 

Eyersey468

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Surely it improves the drivers visability? e.g. small child running out stands a better chance of being seen than with a higher bottom edge of the windscreen.

EDIT
I'm also curious where the driver is now looking to view the road each side of the bus? Presumably a couple of small monitors in the instrument binnacle?
Genuine question as I've only driven a bus with a reversing camera in addition to side mirrors and I found it a distraction from looking in the mirrors to check down below my eye line for the reversing monitor as well. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned :o
Yes there are a couple of monitors in the cab, it does take a bit of getting used to as instinctively you look for the mirrors
 

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