Weekend engineering works East Croydon-London Victoria.

[Ivor]

Could anyone who is in the know please advise when the nigh on constant weekend closure of East Croydon to London Victoria (also means can’t get to Clapham Junction) most weekends will ever be completed?

I’m not sure how long it’s now gone on but well over a year if not two but with work & social I’m fed up having to book hotels at my cost to compensate or find long winded journeys to find my way to CJ or VIC

Yes I have tried bus replacement from ECR which can take with traffic jams on a Saturday up to 1.5 hours

I’ve contacted Southern twice with the question to get first time “there are no engineering works 4th & 5th Feb” (fantastic) & then asking the question again to be sent the link to the engineering planner which I refer to when travelling.

I assume they don’t want to give an answer or indication!

 

[PGAT]

There have been signalling works taking place at Victoria for a couple of years now, spread out this long to minimise day-to-day disruption.

The last confirmed dates of the route are the 18 and 19 of February, but there may be new ones announced in the future

 

[Ivor]

There have been signalling works taking place at Victoria for a couple of years now, spread out this long to minimise day-to-day disruption.

The last confirmed dates of the route are the 18 and 19 of February, but there may be new ones announced in the future

Thank you for the info, appreciated, shame Southern Customer Services couldn’t give me a straight answer.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have encountered this a bit. I have no idea when if ever it will end.

Mostly for me the Thameslink Route is an alternative that is really quite good and runs all night.

For central London and beyond it is whatever tube line I need from Thameslink or the Elizabeth line (via Farringdon).

If I have to get to Victoria (e.g. coach station) then its Thameslink from East Croydon to Blackfriars then the Circle/District line to Victoria.

If I have to get to Clapham Junction then its Tram to Wimbledon or Thameslink to London Bridge then change for a service to Waterloo East.

 

[Ivor]

I have encountered this a bit. I have no idea when if ever it will end.

Mostly for me the Thameslink Route is an alternative that is really quite good and runs all night.

For central London and beyond it is whatever tube line I need from Thameslink or the Elizabeth line (via Farringdon).

If I have to get to Victoria (e.g. coach station) then its Thameslink from East Croydon to Blackfriars then the Circle/District line to Victoria.

If I have to get to Clapham Junction then its Tram to Wimbledon or Thameslink to London Bridge then change for a service to Waterloo East.

Yeah it’s a ‘round the houses job’ the bus replacement from ECR do not put yourself through the torture

 

[JonathanH]

Yeah it’s a ‘round the houses job’ the bus replacement from ECR do not put yourself through the torture

The bus replacement really isn't intended for journeys between East Croydon and Clapham Junction since there are multiple ways of making the journey more quickly by other means.

That is one obvious reason why it doesn't continue into Victoria.

 

[WizCastro197]

Practically none of the Three Bridges slows had any seats at London Bridge and the ill passenger on an overcrowded Brighton train didn’t help. In the end, it probably dealt everything better than a 377 ever could.

I suppose that would have to be dealt with everyday if the Victoria-Reigate service is cut, as sort of hinted at in another thread.

Don’t worry all, Victoria remains open for the next few weekends until the 18th February I think.

Last year’s work didn’t continue this far into the year, despite that massive mess up on Southern’s part where it took until May to restore all services to Victoria.

I can only hope the gateline works have been taking place as well, but I read somewhere, perhaps on here, that the works didn’t commence during the closure?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There have been signalling works taking place at Victoria for a couple of years now, spread out this long to minimise day-to-day disruption.

The last confirmed dates of the route are the 18 and 19 of February, but there may be new ones announced in the future

Indeed there has been but the whole lot was shut for 10 days over Xmas and to have not completed all the works then is just atypical of the modern railway that is taking vastly more access to deliver engineering outcomes than it ever did.

 

[LA50041]

Could anyone who is in the know please advise when the nigh on constant weekend closure of East Croydon to London Victoria (also means can’t get to Clapham Junction) most weekends will ever be completed?

I’m not sure how long it’s now gone on but well over a year if not two but with work & social I’m fed up having to book hotels at my cost to compensate or find long winded journeys to find my way to CJ or VIC

Yes I have tried bus replacement from ECR which can take with traffic jams on a Saturday up to 1.5 hours

I’ve contacted Southern twice with the question to get first time “there are no engineering works 4th & 5th Feb” (fantastic) & then asking the question again to be sent the link to the engineering planner which I refer to when travelling.

I assume they don’t want to give an answer or indication!

I suspect that the social media/customer services just wouldn't have that information as the train planning teams will not have fully confirmed timetables by then.

Network Rail probably would have had the answer as it's part of a major re-signalling project.

As has been noted up thread 18/19 February is the next weekend with this block. After that there is the following dates when Victoria is closed
Good Friday-Easter Monday
15/16 April
7 May

After that there are no planned works until at least August

 

[43066]

I’m not sure how long it’s now gone on but well over a year if not two but with work & social I’m fed up having to book hotels at my cost to compensate or find long winded journeys to find my way to CJ or VIC

Did I read this right - you live in east Croydon and you’re booking hotels in London when the Clapham junction - ECR section is closed?

Surely it’s far easier and cheaper to take an alternative route eg vic - Beckenham junction and tram, or LBG - Elmers End and tram? Even taking an Uber for the whole journey (circa. £50) will be cheaper than most if not all hotels!

 

[Ivor]

Did I read this right - you live in east Croydon and you’re booking hotels in London when the Clapham junction - ECR section is closed?

Surely it’s far easier and cheaper to take an alternative route eg vic - Beckenham junction and tram, or LBG - Elmers End and tram? Even taking an Uber for the whole journey (circa. £50) will be cheaper than most if not all hotels!

I live on the West Sussex Coast.

 

[Deepgreen]

The bus replacement really isn't intended for journeys between East Croydon and Clapham Junction since there are multiple ways of making the journey more quickly by other means.

That is one obvious reason why it doesn't continue into Victoria.

If you mean other than by rail, what are these?

 

[PGAT]

There are none

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I suspect that the social media/customer services just wouldn't have that information as the train planning teams will not have fully confirmed timetables by then.

Network Rail probably would have had the answer as it's part of a major re-signalling project.

As has been noted up thread 18/19 February is the next weekend with this block. After that there is the following dates when Victoria is closed
Good Friday-Easter Monday
15/16 April
7 May

After that there are no planned works until at least August

With that amount of access on this stretch it ought to be major possession free for years not a few months

 

[JonathanH]

If you mean other than by rail, what are these?

I mean other than by replacement bus when the railway is shut. In some cases a different ticket may be needed.

As an example, travelling East Croydon - London Bridge - Waterloo East - Waterloo - Clapham Junction by rail is quicker than using the direct replacement bus. Travelling East Croydon - Streatham - Wimbledon is quicker than using the replacement bus and changing at Clapham Junction.

With that amount of access on this stretch it ought to be major possession free for years not a few months

Are there not routine access closures as well as the resignalling work?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Are there not routine access closures as well as the resignalling work?

The resignalling was roughly Pourparts to country side of Balham Jcn so that leaves plenty of the route with very generous access to do heavy maintenance. Should have been an ideal opportunity to give the whole of Victoria throat a heavy refurb for example so that it would only need weekend nights to deal with routine items for several years but the industry think like that and make the link with less possessions means more opportunity to earn fare revenue.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

There is a 4 day Easter closure which wasn't initially planned but has been brought forward for the complete S and C renewal of Streatham North Junction. After that, that should be all the major work done at Victoria.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==

Practically none of the Three Bridges slows had any seats at London Bridge and the ill passenger on an overcrowded Brighton train didn’t help. In the end, it probably dealt everything better than a 377 ever could.

I suppose that would have to be dealt with everyday if the Victoria-Reigate service is cut, as sort of hinted at in another thread.

Don’t worry all, Victoria remains open for the next few weekends until the 18th February I think.

Last year’s work didn’t continue this far into the year, despite that massive mess up on Southern’s part where it took until May to restore all services to Victoria.

I can only hope the gateline works have been taking place as well, but I read somewhere, perhaps on here, that the works didn’t commence during the closure?

Where is that being hinted?

 

[WizCastro197]

I live on the West Sussex Coast.

Why can't you take the train to London Bridge, and commute on the tube from there? Even if it means paying the extra for the tube, it will certainly be cheaper than paying for hotels. One thing to note, that Network Rail are pushing, is that this is taking place to help future-proof the station and reduce the delays in the long term.

You can also go: London Bridge -> Waterloo East -> Waterloo -> Clapham Junction? I don't see the requirement in paying for the hotels, did you not think to save any money by finishing your journey in Clapham?

If you need Victoria, you can go London Bridge -> Jubilee Westbound to Westminster -> Circle/District to Victoria.

(I also could've sworn your location listed yesterday, was London?)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2023 ==

Where is that being hinted?

Sorry, I didn't specify very well, it was just some speculation in this thread, I am not saying it will get cut, it would be utter turmoil for the Redhill line if it was!

Should London overground take over the Clapham Junction to Watford Junction service instead of Southern?

Moderator note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/may-2023-changes.239045/ I wish london overground could take over the Clapham Junction to Watford Junction instead of Southern?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Ivor]

(I also could’ve sworn your location listed yesterday, was London?)

An oversight on my part, since moving I hadn’t amended my RF profile.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There is a 4 day Easter closure which wasn't initially planned but has been brought forward for the complete S and C renewal of Streatham North Junction. After that, that should be all the major work done at Victoria.

That should have been done at Xmas not take even more access.

I guess its the Jcn on the slow lines not the Fast Lines

 

[WizCastro197]

An oversight on my part, since moving I hadn’t amended my RF profile.

Surely, it is also an oversight that you seem to have not been able to complete your journeys to either Clapham Junction or Victoria, despite there being easy ways of passage, yet instead spending perhaps up to £100 pounds per night on hotels (perhaps even more)?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

That should have been done at Xmas not take even more access.

I guess its the Jcn on the slow lines not the Fast Lines

It was only brought forward at really quite late notice in terms of timescales for these major possessions. So I doubt there was the time to do it over Christmas.

I think it might be the full junction on bith slows and fasts but I'm not sure.

 

[Ivor]

Surely, it is also an oversight that you seem to have not been able to complete your journeys to either Clapham Junction or Victoria, despite there being easy ways of passage, yet instead spending perhaps up to £100 pounds per night on hotels (perhaps even more)?

I’m not sure why you’re fixated on this. The fact is I do mainly at weekends 12 hour shifts @ CJ, to route via LB then onto Waterloo East with a 20 min walk to Waterloo before onward to CJ (subject to trains/tubes running ok) is approx another hour on the journey either end of the day rather than stepping on my train back at shift end @ CJ, they start & finish @ ECR & the bus replacement is a disgrace.

My work is on my feet out in all weathers not sat at a desk so the last thing I need is another walk a couple of times a day plus walking accessing tube stations etc

I’m knocking on the door of 70 & yes I’ll hold my hands up & say I don’t find it easy as I used to physically.

I originally only asked did anyone in the know have info when the said engineering work would end? that’s all, @PGAT answered immediately backed with other helpful members feedback.

It was I thought a simple request for info but other than posting my role, personal details I’m not sure I can respond further to you.

 

[WizCastro197]

I’m not sure why you’re fixated on this. The fact is I do mainly at weekends 12 hour shifts @ CJ, to route via LB then onto Waterloo East with a 20 min walk to Waterloo before onward to CJ (subject to trains/tubes running ok) is approx another hour on the journey either end of the day rather than stepping on my train back at shift end @ CJ, they start & finish @ ECR & the bus replacement is a disgrace.

My work is on my feet out in all weathers not sat at a desk so the last thing I need is another walk a couple of times a day plus walking accessing tube stations etc

I’m knocking on the door of 70 & yes I’ll hold my hands up & say I don’t find it easy as I used to physically.

I originally only asked did anyone in the know have info when the said engineering work would end? that’s all, @PGAT answered immediately backed with other helpful members feedback.

It was I thought a simple request for info but other than posting my role, personal details I’m not sure I can respond further to you.

Apologies, I was just very confused, but I didn’t know the full details, so that was my fault.

 

[Bald Rick]

That should have been done at Xmas not take even more access.

I guess its the Jcn on the slow lines not the Fast Lines

Some of the work planned to take place over Christmas in the main block was lost due to the strikes, and the work has had to be replanned (and resequenced).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Some of the work planned to take place over Christmas in the main block was lost due to the strikes, and the work has had to be replanned (and resequenced).

despite services were withdrawn very early!

The industry is running at a reduced level of demand with train miles looking like they will drop further from May its about time NR was charged with realigning its renewal and maintenance volumes commensurate with that and making the railway more available for trains to be run to boost fare income.

 

[Bald Rick]

despite services were withdrawn very early!

yes, because of that.

 

[Brubulus]

despite services were withdrawn very early!

The industry is running at a reduced level of demand with train miles looking like they will drop further from May its about time NR was charged with realigning its renewal and maintenance volumes commensurate with that and making the railway more available for trains to be run to boost fare income.

I understand this is already happening but NR could run even more 7-9 day blockades instead of weekend closures for months. Would presume to be far more efficent and a lot cheaper, especially on routes where weekday commuting is now lower, also balances out equipment use better I'd assume as lots is only used on weekends.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I understand this is already happening but NR could run even more 7-9 day blockades instead of weekend closures for months. Would presume to be far more efficent and a lot cheaper, especially on routes where weekday commuting is now lower, also balances out equipment use better I'd assume as lots is only used on weekends.

Im totally for blockades by far and away the most effective way of delivering renewals and heavy maintenance. However, in this case we got a blockade to commission the Balham and Clapham Jcn electronic interlockings ( i wont go there that were done originally in 52hr blocks nearly 40 years ago!!). This required Windmill Bridge Jcn to Victoria (c) being closed for 10 days and if these are to be used effectively the likes of Streatham Nth Jcn renewal need to be planned in as well and as much heavy maintenance that you can fit in. You then walk away from the route for abnormals for several years but that isn't what will happen. So as i see it currently all we are doing is NR taking even more access and denying passengers trains and more importantly fare income. Of course operators aren't bothered anymore as they dont have to concern themselves with farebox income.

 

[Brubulus]

Im totally for blockades by far and away the most effective way of delivering renewals and heavy maintenance. However, in this case we got a blockade to commission the Balham and Clapham Jcn electronic interlockings ( i wont go there that were done originally in 52hr blocks nearly 40 years ago!!). This required Windmill Bridge Jcn to Victoria (c) being closed for 10 days and if these are to be used effectively the likes of Streatham Nth Jcn renewal need to be planned in as well and as much heavy maintenance that you can fit in. You then walk away from the route for abnormals for several years but that isn't what will happen. So as i see it currently all we are doing is NR taking even more access and denying passengers trains and more importantly fare income. Of course operators aren't bothered anymore as they dont have to concern themselves with farebox income.

Agree - it's more the near endless weekend closures I'm against than anything else but lines should be kept open whenever possible with major works being done in less, but longer possessions with as much done else in the area at that time but even then time lines are shut for should always be minimised with things like single line working considered first. There seem to be have been a lot more blockades in the last 5-10 years - is this due to H&S rules requiring line closure when it wasn't before - or NR just taking more time.