Over run a platform at Stevenage this morning? (25/01/2023)

[Lee_Again]

Did 1A09 (07.15 ex Leeds to Kings Cross) over run Stevenage this morning? RTT shows it passing Stevenage at 09.05, and OTT shows it stopped at the next block (is that what they're called?). It's now back in the platform, presumably having reversed. I hope it was a mistake and not an incident - they are far too frequent at Stevenage.

 

[43066]

I hope it was a mistake and not an incident - they are far too frequent at Stevenage.

If it was a station overrun (I have no idea if it was) it will most likely be both a mistake and an operational incident!

 

[Elecman]

The train can’t have overrun too much or he wouldn’t be allowed to,set back into the platform

 

[Surreytraveller]

Indeed. An operational incident will be a mistake

 

[jon0844]

LNER was asked to stop more trains at Stevenage earlier this week due to the problems (bridge repair) near Harringay, which reduced the number of trains able to go into King's Cross. I wonder if the driver forgot about the extra stop on what would normally not be a calling point for that diagram?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hope all was OK and everyone got to where they needed to be. This does make me worry about the risk of a similar situation but with signals or buffers though, as the consequences would be much worse there!. Edit: I’ve been told the circumstances would be very different for this type of scenario, so forget that!

 

[66701GBRF]

deleted,

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Sorry if you misunderstood, I only meant mistakes like this are unsettling to hear of, as consequences could be severe if it happens in front of a buffer, points or a changing/red signal - a number of buffer strikes have occurred over the decades, causing damage. Also causes major inconvenience to passengers, the same passengers who would be fined or prosecuted if they made a mistake with a ticket. As I said though, I hope all was OK and that everyone got to where they needed to be.

LNER was asked to stop more trains at Stevenage earlier this week due to the problems (bridge repair) near Harringay, which reduced the number of trains able to go into King's Cross. I wonder if the driver forgot about the extra stop on what would normally not be a calling point for that diagram?

What measures are put in place when a High Speed driver has to make an additional call? Are they sufficient? I would hope no driver is made to feel bad for missing a stop if they hadn’t been given enough notice and reminders.

 

[Mattyblob]

Abrupt defensiveness isn't really necessary. While my post was partially tongue-in-cheek, mistakes like this are unsettling to hear of, as consequences could be severe if it happens in front of a buffer, points or a changing/red signal - a number of buffer strikes have occurred over the decades, causing damage. Also causes major inconvenience to passengers, the same passengers who would be fined or prosecuted if they made a mistake with a ticket. As I said though, I hope all was OK and that everyone got to where they needed to be.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2023 ==


What measures are put in place when a High Speed driver has to make an additional call? Are they sufficient?

Overrunning a through station on a line with a variable stopping pattern is in no way comparable to a buffer stop collision. Why defend a silly comment with another silly comment?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Overrunning a through station on a line with a variable stopping pattern is in no way comparable to a buffer stop collision. Why defend a silly comment with another silly comment?

It wasn’t meant to be silly, but I’m sorry if it went down the wrong way. I just assumed that the overrun was due to late braking, hence my worry for alternative situations. I’ve edited my original post to remove anything that might be taken as silly.

 

[AlterEgo]

While my post was partially tongue-in-cheek, mistakes like this are unsettling to hear of, as consequences could be severe if it happens in front of a buffer, points or a changing/red signal - a number of buffer strikes have occurred over the decades, causing damage.

If I drive from London to Dover and forget I was asked that morning to stop in at a corner shop to pick up a parcel for my spouse on the way, this is an error. But it isn’t the same sort of error as failing to stop at a red light or for a brick wall.

I don’t think you’d question a car driver’s ability to recognise red lights or when the road is coming to an end if they made a simple “whoops failed to stop at the shops” mistake!

 

[jon0844]

Overrunning a through station on a line with a variable stopping pattern is in no way comparable to a buffer stop collision. Why defend a silly comment with another silly comment?

Indeed, while it is still an operational incident, forgetting an additional stop isn't the same as forgetting to stop for a signal!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed, while it is still an operational incident, forgetting an additional stop isn't the same as forgetting to stop for a signal!

I had assumed the signals would have been amber to approach the station where a train is booked. Forgive my ignorance in that respect!

The 07:15 from Leeds always calls at Stevenage though??? I don’t believe this is one of the additional call trains?

 

[jon0844]

I had assumed the signals would have been amber to approach the station where a train is booked. Forgive my ignorance in that respect!

The 07:15 from Leeds always calls at Stevenage though??? I don’t believe this is one of the additional call trains?

Not necessarily. But even if there was a yellow, if the driver forgets then they're still going to go through. If it was red, they'd stop but not release the doors because, well, they forgot!

Now let me make clear as we discuss this, I was only suggesting this as a possible reason. I have absolutely no idea what happened here!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are there any drivers that can confirm if TOCs usually provide enough notice and reminders to them when trains do have to call additionally? As I said, it seems very unfair if a driver is ticked off for missing an additional stop if someone at the TOC merely quickly told them as they were booking on. If not, no wonder they sometimes get missed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2023 ==

The train can’t have overrun too much or he wouldn’t be allowed to,set back into the platform

I hope this doesn’t sound like a silly question, but what determines whether they can roll back into the platform or not? Is it whether or not signals have been passed?

 

[800301]

I hope this doesn’t sound like a silly question, but what determines whether they can roll back into the platform or not? Is it whether or not signals have been passed?

400m from the platform depending on the situation and only with permission and a clear understanding for the wrong direction move from the signaller, Driver to change ends for move because we don’t reverse trains unless uncoupling

 

[dk1]

400m from the platform depending on the situation and only with permission and a clear understanding for the wrong direction move from the signaller, Driver to change ends for move because we don’t reverse trains unless uncoupling

And as long as there isn’t an AHB in that 400m

I do feel for the poor driver. Can happen to any of us & it’s that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach when you just know it’s too late & that you ain’t going to stop fully in the platform.

 

[800301]

And as long as there isn’t an AHB in that 400m

You’d hope the signaller would notice that before authorising or that’s 2 people that will have that horrible feeling.

It can happen to anyone and normally is more likely to be when it’s a special stop order on a route you drive and a place you very rarely stop

 

[dk1]

You’d hope the signaller would notice that before authorising or that’s 2 people that will have that horrible feeling.

Oh yes, but I was just quoting the rule book.

 

[357]

I was on a train recently at Southend Central that moved to the next block on OTT despite still being in the platform with the doors open. The train was delayed, and after a while OTT moved the train back where it should be.

This could be simply a cancelled train due to any other reason. Let's not jump to conclusions.

 

[BigB]

I recall reading in Railnews in the 80s that when they opened the new Sandwell and Dudley station, with the BR Chairman Sir Peter Parker, the mayor and all the great and good waiting, the driver of the inter city train they were to board was either not told or forgot that he was to stop, and sailed by.
They got the next one....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do feel for the poor driver. Can happen to any of us & it’s that awful feeling in the pit of your stomach when you just know it’s too late & that you ain’t going to stop fully in the platform.

So do I, that must feel terribly worrying. I feel for the customers too, but at least they probably won’t be criticised for it. Are TOC bigwigs generally quite understanding when this happens, or do they come down quite harshly?

 

[ComUtoR]

Are TOC bigwigs generally quite understanding when this happens, or do they come down quite harshly?

During any incident investigation, everything wil be taken into account. If there are any mitigating circumstances then everything will be done to exonerate the Driver.

Sadly, this is also career ending for some. Drivers incident history, reasons for overrun, med screens, etc.

Then there is any learning to be had post incident.

 

[dk1]

So do I, that must feel terribly worrying. I feel for the customers too, but at least they probably won’t be criticised for it. Are TOC bigwigs generally quite understanding when this happens, or do they come down quite harshly?

No driver is treated harshly. It just depends if you learn from your mistakes & what your previous career record looks like. Will certainly be put on some sort of plan & monitored for a set period of time.

 

[357]

No driver is treated harshly. It just depends if you learn from your mistakes & what your previous career record looks like. Will certainly be put on some sort of plan & monitored for a set period of time.

Wish I worked for your TOC.

 

[43066]

Are there any drivers that can confirm if TOCs usually provide enough notice and reminders to them when trains do have to call additionally? As I said, it seems very unfair if a driver is ticked off for missing an additional stop if someone at the TOC merely quickly told them as they were booking on. If not, no wonder they sometimes get missed.

You will generally be be given a special stop order referencing your train’s headcode specifying where you are to stop in addition to what’s on your diagram. The only other situations where you’d do it would be if you were given an instruction via the signaller or (as I have done a couple of times when passengers have been over carried/boarded the wrong train) making the decision yourself to stop additionally to let them off, but clearing this with the signaller in advance.

It is treated very seriously and, as others have said, will be on your record for the rest of your career and could result in the loss of your key, depending on past history.

 

[Efini92]

You’d hope the signaller would notice that before authorising or that’s 2 people that will have that horrible feeling.

It can happen to anyone and normally is more likely to be when it’s a special stop order on a route you drive and a place you very rarely stop

There was an incident a few years ago near Leeds where a driver was allowed to set back into a station. The signal on the platform was an automatic and the train had gone beyond the overlap. The train behind got quite the fright.

 

[12LDA28C]

I had assumed the signals would have been amber to approach the station where a train is booked. Forgive my ignorance in that respect!

The 07:15 from Leeds always calls at Stevenage though??? I don’t believe this is one of the additional call trains?

Signals are not 'amber' on the railways, they are yellow. You're thinking of traffic lights.

There is no requirement to check trains down with restrictive signals just because they are stopping at a station, an exception might be if there is a speed-restricted turnout from a through road into a platform loop although even then this might be done with flashing yellows on the approach to the junction and then greens thereafter, depending on location.

 

[LAX54]

No driver is treated harshly. It just depends if you learn from your mistakes & what your previous career record looks like. Will certainly be put on some sort of plan & monitored for a set period of time.

Guess it also happens with some of the bizzare stopping patterns of some trains, and of course Romford on the G.E was a regular missed stop, resulting in the, what Signallers will regard as the 'misuse' of Class 1 / 2 headcodes lol

 

[High Dyke]

Train in question (07:15 Leeds - King's Cross) is booked to call at Stevenage. The incident was a station overshoot. The incident was managed correctly. Nothing more to see here.