Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[Jez]

231004 was also on test, as spotted from a 769.
I’ve come to prefer the 769s to 150s, as much as I value armrests and tables, I often travel in the morning and the 150s are exceptionally bright, which isn’t pleasant. The 769s are darker inside and less noisy.

Last week when I went on a 150 I was surprised how awful the 150's have become! And this is after they have recently been refurbished.

Saying that I had literally just got off a 231 and crossed the bridge straight onto a 150!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Last week when I went on a 150 I was surprised how awful the 150's have become! And this is after they have recently been refurbished.

Saying that I had literally just got off a 231 and crossed the bridge straight onto a 150!

Yes, as my local station is on the Pontypridd route I’m quite jealous of the Bargoed route for its variety - the 153s have no mid doors opening into the cold, some 769s have declassified first class which is rather nice, and now 231s also. All I get is 150s, and today’s was a Northern one. Having said that, we do get 153s in the late evening or during engineering works on services running only as far as north as Radyr via Llandaf, obviously they’re not allowed to go further north.

 

[Jez]

Yes, as my local station is on the Pontypridd route I’m quite jealous of the Bargoed route for its variety - the 153s have no mid doors opening into the cold, some 769s have declassified first class which is rather nice, and now 231s also. All I get is 150s, and today’s was a Northern one. Having said that, we do get 153s in the late evening or during engineering works on services running only as far as north as Radyr via Llandaf, obviously they’re not allowed to go further north.

So the 150s likely to be around for a while yet then if they are the only ones cleared for the Merthyr Aberdare and Treherbert routes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So the 150s likely to be around for a while yet then if they are the only ones cleared for the Merthyr Aberdare and Treherbert routes.

Unfortunately so, although I believe FLIRTS have been up that way for testing. Also, the wires are gathering pace on the routes, and it’s worth remembering that the full route won’t be wired, and that 398s will switch between batteries and wires for power, so it might not be that long before they can enter service.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I am going to Cardiff next week and I am going to sample the 231 for the first time so I will appreciate it if someone could find/share the diagrams for me please so I know where they run and what times they run.

 

[AdamWW]

Unfortunately so, although I believe FLIRTS have been up that way for testing. Also, the wires are gathering pace on the routes, and it’s worth remembering that the full route won’t be wired, and that 398s will switch between batteries and wires for power, so it might not be that long before they can enter service.

FLIRTS certainly have been up that way. I'm not sure how far.

So far I know they don't have any 398's yet...or a finished depot for them. So they'll need more than just the wires putting up.

 

[Western 52]

Has the new depot at Taff's Well been allocated a depot code yet?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I am going to Cardiff next week and I am going to sample the 231 for the first time so I will appreciate it if someone could find/share the diagrams for me please so I know where they run and what times they run.

RTT today had it running as follows. I've included Cardiff Central times as that is where most people not living on the line would pick it up)
Entered service at Cardiff Central
2P00 0546 Cardiff Central to Penarth
2D00 0602 Penarth to Bargoed (Cardiff central 0616)
2P09 0702 bargoed to Penarth (Cardiff central 0744)
2R02 0803 Penarth to Rhymney (CC 0816)
2P31 0927 Rhynmney to penarth (CC 1032)
2D26 1048 Penarth to Bargoed (CC 1101) (because of late running this terminated at Caerphilly today)
2P47 1200 Bargoed to Penarth (CC 1246) (today started at Caerphilly)
2R12 1303 Penarth to Rhymney (CC1316)
2P67 1427 Rhymney to Penarth (CC 1532)
2F55 1548 Penarth to Cardiff Central (arr 1600)

As far as I can tell 231007 ran the same diagram yesterday and all last week

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am going to Cardiff next week and I am going to sample the 231 for the first time so I will appreciate it if someone could find/share the diagrams for me please so I know where they run and what times they run.

RTT today had it running as follows. I've included Cardiff Central times as that is where most people not living on the line would pick it up)
Entered service at Cardiff Central
2P00 0546 Cardiff Central to Penarth
2D00 0602 Penarth to Bargoed (Cardiff central 0616)
2P09 0702 bargoed to Penarth (Cardiff central 0744)
2R02 0803 Penarth to Rhymney (CC 0816)
2P31 0927 Rhynmney to penarth (CC 1032)
2D26 1048 Penarth to Bargoed (CC 1101) (because of late running this terminated at Caerphilly today)
2P47 1200 Bargoed to Penarth (CC 1246) (today started at Caerphilly)
2R12 1303 Penarth to Rhymney (CC1316)
2P67 1427 Rhymney to Penarth (CC 1532)
2F55 1548 Penarth to Cardiff Central (arr 1600)

As far as I can tell 231007 ran the same diagram yesterday and all last week

Quoted diagram is repeated several times throughout this chat…
Just so you know, 007 has been out most of last week but it was 001 today.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Being delivered by postman round Cardiff

Do the 769s have air conditioning? The 150s and 153s certainly don't, so unless the 769s have it I don't see how the new Metro fleet brings 'improved' air-conditioning.

Struggling to think of a good wording for the advert though - "introducing air-conditioning for the first time" wouldn't be correct either since the mark 2s used with the class 50s, 37s etc. were presumably air-con examples (mark 2d/2e/2f)

 

[Anonymous10]

Do the 769s have air conditioning? The 150s and 153s certainly don't, so unless the 769s have it I don't see how the new Metro fleet brings 'improved' air-conditioning.

Struggling to think of a good wording for the advert though - "introducing air-conditioning for the first time" wouldn't be correct either since the mark 2s used with the class 50s, 37s etc. were presumably air-con examples (mark 2d/2e/2f)

No they don't have aircon just windows to my knowledge

 

[Jamesrob637]

Come on GWR, get some of these on the Cornish branch lines. Foreign tourists who have just taken a shiny Azuma esque train from London must be ashamed to board clapped-out rolling stock for the coastal towns.

 

[TRAX]

Has the new depot at Taff's Well been allocated a depot code yet?

TFW would be funny

 

[Anonymous10]

TFW would be funny

But would be logical

 

[norbitonflyer]

Do the 769s have air conditioning?

No they don't. Had a ride on one today (Cardiff to Penarth, and a 231 back again).

Very weird having the diesel sound in one car and the electric motors in the next. Reminded me of the old Hasting DEMUs, which had the same effect (although the motors in those were under the (non-driving) end of the power car)

 

[Razorblades]

But would be logical

Logical for the old GWR, maybe, as they used three letter codes as well as some two-letter ones. But presumably the code will be TW assuming it follows present day conventions.

 

[Rhydgaled]

No they don't have aircon just windows to my knowledge

No they don't. Had a ride on one today (Cardiff to Penarth, and a 231 back again).

Thanks both for the answers. So, the class 231s are the only units on the Metro with air-conditioning at the moment then? So TfW are wrong to suggest that the new Metro trains have better aircon than the aircon on the existing Metro units - because there isn't any aircon on those units.

 

[Western 52]

Logical for the old GWR, maybe, as they used three letter codes as well as some two-letter ones. But presumably the code will be TW assuming it follows present day conventions.

TW was Tunbridge Wells, but not sure if that code is still in use.

 

[43096]

No they don't. Had a ride on one today (Cardiff to Penarth, and a 231 back again).

Very weird having the diesel sound in one car and the electric motors in the next. Reminded me of the old Hasting DEMUs, which had the same effect (although the motors in those were under the (non-driving) end of the power car)

I'm not sure which you're referring to, as both the 231 and the 769 have the traction motors in a separate car (driving cars for 231, one of the middle cars in the 769) to the diesel engines (centre car for 231, driving cars for 769).

 

[Razorblades]

TW was Tunbridge Wells, but not sure if that code is still in use.

No, it was defunct when the Spa Valley line closed in 1985 along with the DEMU depot.

 

[Western 52]

No, it was defunct when the Spa Valley line closed in 1985 along with the DEMU depot.

No worries, long time since I've been there! TW for Taff's Well is available then, assuming codes can be reused.

 

[sefyllian]

Thanks both for the answers. So, the class 231s are the only units on the Metro with air-conditioning at the moment then? So TfW are wrong to suggest that the new Metro trains have better aircon than the aircon on the existing Metro units - because there isn't any aircon on those units.

The Metro branding is often used to cover all local/regional journeys, not just the Valley lines. Cardiff–Abergavenny counts as Metro, which will often be Class 175s. Would be difficult not to improve on the 175 air conditioning so I’m sure the claim is correct!

 

[Express380]

Anyone know why the 231 diagram finishes early each day at 16:00 rather than continuing on as seen in the timetable a few weeks ahead from today it seems odd as there is a return to Bargoed and back missing and then a run up to Ystrad Mynach then the non stop service to Cardiff Central at 18:53 any info weather this is permanent would be great many thanks!

 

[Bob Price]

I'm not sure which you're referring to, as both the 231 and the 769 have the traction motors in a separate car (driving cars for 231, one of the middle cars in the 769) to the diesel engines (centre car for 231, driving cars for 769).

The 769 have the diesel engines at either end and an electric traction motor in the middle. If you haven't heard one depart watch this. I have ridden one and I get what is being said here.

 

[AlexNL]

TW for Taff's Well is available then

They could also go for TC, as in Trafnidiaeth Cymru

 

[Rhydgaled]

The Metro branding is often used to cover all local/regional journeys, not just the Valley lines. Cardiff–Abergavenny counts as Metro, which will often be Class 175s. Would be difficult not to improve on the 175 air conditioning so I’m sure the claim is correct!

View attachment 127715

I thought 'Metro' being wider than the Core Valley Lines was talked about (and largely very sensible in my view with the exception of the proposed hourly (or better) Cardiff–Abergavenny stopping services which in my view should be Cardiff-Hereford) but never actually came about. In terms of rolling stock I think the 'Metro' branding is only found on the class 756s and class 398s. The class 231s, as far as I'm aware, don't have it - presumably reflecting their future planned use outside the Core Valley Lines but certainly within the wider Metro.

In any case, even if 'Metro' is officially wider than the domain of the class 756s/398s, would anyone think of a class 175 as a 'Metro' train - even if they do/did have booked work to/from Maesteg (due to a Metro service being formed of a extended Cardiff-Holyhead service for operational convience)?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Metro refers more to the turn-up-and-go frequency of the majority of a route. Four an hour to Cardiff from Bargoed, yes. Six an hour from Pontypridd, yes. Eight an hour from Grangetown, yes.

One per hour to Maesteg, no. Two per three hours to Abergavenny, no.

It’s about the route not the stock.

 

[43096]

The 769 have the diesel engines at either end and an electric traction motor in the middle.

Errrr, that’s what I said!

 

[sefyllian]

In any case, even if 'Metro' is officially wider than the domain of the class 756s/398s, would anyone think of a class 175 as a 'Metro' train - even if they do/did have booked work to/from Maesteg (due to a Metro service being formed of a extended Cardiff-Holyhead service for operational convience)?

Metro refers more to the turn-up-and-go frequency of the majority of a route. […] It’s about the route not the stock.

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with either of you, but whatever we personally may believe the Metro to be, the official definition does cover Maesteg and Abergavenny, as shown by TfW’s route map above.

The Metro is more than just electrification and new rolling stock. It’s the wider project to create a cohesive public transport system in south east Wales, including buses and active travel, together with integrated ticketing.

So rather than stock, or routes, or frequencies, I think it makes more sense to think of Metro as the geographical area it will cover, a bit like the Oyster area. (There are plenty of 2tph stations in Zone 6, which is what Abergavenny is supposed to get).

I agree someone boarding at Maesteg today probably doesn’t think they’re on the Metro but that’s because it doesn’t really exist yet. If in future they could tap on in Maesteg and tap off in Cardiff Bay and be charged appropriately, then I think they probably will think they’re part of the Metro, regardless of the rolling stock/method of transport they’re on. (Or however the ticketing will work, not saying it will definitely be tap on and off.)

(Edit: apols, off topic for 231/756s, this can be moved/continued under the South Wales Metro thread if needs be)

 

[Anonymous10]

Thanks both for the answers. So, the class 231s are the only units on the Metro with air-conditioning at the moment then? So TfW are wrong to suggest that the new Metro trains have better aircon than the aircon on the existing Metro units - because there isn't any aircon on those units.

Do the 170s count as metro units? Do they have aircon