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Well, it's on journey planners for next Friday/Saturday too. Hourly western departures from Bracknell from 21.20 to 00.20, then two more half hourly departures until 01.20.
Apologies. Not sure why I said that. Wrong of course!
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Anyway, moving swiftly on.
The 2021 census records the total population of Wokingham and Bracknell boroughs to be over 300,000 and both have grown at a far greater rate than the national average population growth.
A bizarre time to reduce public transport supporting the night-time economy between both locations, especially as SWR has stated that off peak travel has returned to 100% of pre-Covid levels.
I don't think the issue is whether the 8 carriage trains fill up west of Bracknell - I imagine very few London commuter services are full at the outer end.
It's more the issue of maintaining a decent interval service of the sort that attracts walk-on travel.
Good point. Guildford New Line services via Cobahm are certainly not full in the evenings, as far as I can tell and they run every half hour. That is probably done for operational convenience though.
Not that I would want the services to become hourly.
Good point. Guildford New Line services via Cobahm are certainly not full in the evenings, as far as I can tell and they run every half hour. That is probably done for operational convenience though.
Not that I would want the services to become hourly.
Apologies. Not sure why I said that. Wrong of course!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Anyway, moving swiftly on.
The 2021 census records the total population of Wokingham and Bracknell boroughs to be over 300,000 and both have grown at a far greater rate than the national average population growth.
A bizarre time to reduce public transport supporting the night-time economy between both locations, especially as SWR has stated that off peak travel has returned to 100% of pre-Covid levels.
Running an hourly service connecting such a densely populated area is poor. Of course, it has nothing to do with usage. It's been done to enable reinstatement of the 2050 and 2350 from Waterloo at no significant change to cost. No way to run a railway, but then that can be said for the whole network currently.
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Good point. Guildford New Line services via Cobahm are certainly not full in the evenings, as far as I can tell and they run every half hour. That is probably done for operational convenience though.
Not that I would want the services to become hourly.
If every train service that didn't run full was withdrawn there wouldn't be much of a network left.
Successful public transport networks are not based on running everything full all the time. They provide a convenient, frequent, easy to use service running when people want it to run.
Hourly anywhere in the London suburban area is unacceptable.
At the outer end of the line the offpeak traffic is not dominated by journeys to/from London, except for those who double back to Reading to get a faster and better journey on GWR. Reading is the main draw. It's an education to see the really large numbers coming off the line at the Reading end on a Saturday morning. I always thought of the line as a "Berkshire S-Bahn" anyway. The same issue dictated the logic of extending Crossrail to Reading. That would pick up extra passengers travelling in the reverse directions from the main London flows.
It's disappointing to see any service reductions, but it still provides good transport far later than most places could ever hope for.
At the outer end of the line the offpeak traffic is not dominated by journeys to/from London, except for those who double back to Reading to get a faster and better journey on GWR. Reading is the main draw. It's an education to see the really large numbers coming off the line at the Reading end on a Saturday morning. I always thought of the line as a "Berkshire S-Bahn" anyway. The same issue dictated the logic of extending Crossrail to Reading. That would pick up extra passengers travelling in the reverse directions from the main London flows.
It's disappointing to see any service reductions, but it still provides good transport far later than most places could ever hope for.
Remembering that the 2017 Franchise specification had a requirement for the introduction of 4tph Waterloo - Reading from first train to last train seven days a week. So as you say, an S-Bahn style service.
And you're right about the flows to and from Reading. In fact the whole Windsor Lines network is / was characterised by very strong contra-peak flows, far more than anywhere else on the SW network.
And you're right about the flows to and from Reading. In fact the whole Windsor Lines network is / was characterised by very strong contra-peak flows, far more than anywhere else on the SW network.
Remembering that the 2017 Franchise specification had a requirement for the introduction of 4tph Waterloo - Reading from first train to last train seven days a week. So as you say, an S-Bahn style service.
Running an hourly service connecting such a densely populated area is poor. Of course, it has nothing to do with usage. It's been done to enable reinstatement of the 2050 and 2350 from Waterloo at no significant change to cost. No way to run a railway, but then that can be said for the whole network currently.
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If every train service that didn't run full was withdrawn there wouldn't be much of a network left.
Successful public transport networks are not based on running everything full all the time. They provide a convenient, frequent, easy to use service running when people want it to run.
Hourly anywhere in the London suburban area is unacceptable.
Well metro services from Guildford to London Waterloo via Bookham are hourly, except during the morning and evening park, so it does happen and I'm sure that isn't unique.
Well metro services from Guildford to London Waterloo via Bookham are hourly, except during the morning and evening park, so it does happen and I'm sure that isn't unique.
The GWML may get much more attractive for Bracknell/Wokingham commuters from May when the GWR Didcot stopper will be non-stop from Slough to Paddington, especially if tickets are cheaper.
Ideally there should be a quicker service from Reading to Waterloo via Bracknell, but I’m not sure if there’s sufficient capacity to do so (By adding a limited stop service).
Not sure many Bracknell chaps would drive to Slough to catch the train....
We haven't had a very good service today, buses Ascot to Reading and after signalling issues in the Whitton area everything at a stand still for most of the afternoon. Certainly a rubbish service in Mr Sutherland's eye!
Absolutely no way. If I have to use a car to drive 30 min north to catch a train to travel eastwards into London I may as well drive to a tube station such as Hatton Cross or Osterley.
The GWML may get much more attractive for Bracknell/Wokingham commuters from May when the GWR Didcot stopper will be non-stop from Slough to Paddington, especially if tickets are cheaper.
Ideally there should be a quicker service from Reading to Waterloo via Bracknell, but I’m not sure if there’s sufficient capacity to do so (By adding a limited stop service).
At various times in history there has been a limited stop service, for example from 1988 to 1991 there was an hourly off-peak service on the hour which called only at Clapham, Richmond and Ascot, then all stations: perhaps the fastest ever off-peak service to Bracknell and Wokingham. The other service (xx33) made the same calls as today, bar Twickenham, and there was also a through Waterloo-Guildford via Ascot service (xx03) which made the same calls as today (including Twickenham) to Ascot. The xx00 was 40 mins ahead of the xx33 by Ascot, but an even-interval 20-min Ascot-Reading service was provided by a Guildford-Reading via Ascot filling the gap, headcode 35. This connected at Ascot with the xx03 Waterloo-Guildford, so seemed to be a quite intricately-planned timetable!
Going back a bit further in the 80s (e.g. 1981 or 1982) there were faster services in the peaks, with the standard off-peak being Clapham, Richmond, Feltham, Staines and all except Longcross. I think that's more or less as today, except Twickenham was missed out. In the shoulder-peaks there were 4tph, two Reading, two Guildford, with the fasts (alternating Reading and Guildford) overtaking the slows (going to the other destination) at Ascot, allowing connection. In high peaks there were further services on top of those, with 7 trains between 1700-1800 from Waterloo to Ascot or beyond in 1982. The early 80s peak pattern was quite complex, though by the late 80s had simplified to a 6tph 00,20,40 to Reading and 10,30,50 to Aldershot or Guildford, but with no shoulder-peak extras. The 1982 timetable is on Timetable World.
I think there is no longer capacity to run these fast services (it has come up before) though one would presumably hope that the move to 701s won't introduce additional stops for the Reading services, to make them comparable with the Windsors. (I have no evidence of this, but you just never know these days...)
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I guess the implication (I don't know the area well enough to know if this is realistic) is they might drive to Twyford or Maidenhead, as discussed above. I think the new pattern of these GW services is Twyford-Maidenhead-Slough-Paddington.
I think there is no longer capacity to run these fast services (it has come up before) though one would presumably hope that the move to 701s won't introduce additional stops for the Reading services, to make them comparable with the Windsors. (I have no evidence of this, but you just never know these days...)
The planned - now seemingly forever deferred - SWR timetable had a Vauxhall stop added to the Readings. The service is slow enough as it is without adding more stops and performance is rubbish. Anything on time at Clapham Jct going up is now a rarity.
Going back a bit further in the 80s (e.g. 1981 or 1982) there were faster services in the peaks, with the standard off-peak being Clapham, Richmond, Feltham, Staines and all except Longcross. I think that's more or less as today, except Twickenham was missed out.
I think there is no longer capacity to run these fast services (it has come up before) though one would presumably hope that the move to 701s won't introduce additional stops for the Reading services, to make them comparable with the Windsors. (I have no evidence of this, but you just never know these days...)
The current resignalling scheme increases line capacity, and with the Hounslow loop services now only running in the peaks I would be surprised if there wasn't sufficient capacity once the resignalling is complete. However, it'll never happen. Any talk of improving journey times seems to involve skipping stations at the west end of the route.
Also the December 2022 timetable consultation proposed adding Vauxhall as a calling point for all services.
The limited stop services were all at times when the London area services were less intensive, although those improvements have now largely been reversed.
The late nineties also saw faster off peak services calling Clapham, Brentford, Hounslow, Ashford then principal stations to Reading. Short lived because it couldn't be operated reliably. At that time there were only 2 Windsor line platforms at Reading, the new service was 4 car only and had to platform share with North Downs trains so delays were imported from one route to the other.
I'm inclined towards the view that a 15 minute service with the current calling pattern would probably be the ideal. The big problem with trying to speed anything up on the Windsor lines is that it's 2 track until Barnes so there's nowhere to overtake. (Possible exception at Twickenham but that's still only 3 track for a small section) Even if you can theoretically squeeze in a slightly faster run it all tends to fall apart with late or out of course running quickly catching up other trains.
The late nineties also saw faster off peak services calling Clapham, Brentford, Hounslow, Ashford then principal stations to Reading. Short lived because it couldn't be operated reliably.
The via Hounslow service was slower, but then missed out stations between Wokingham and Reading - the down services were only six or seven minutes apart between Feltham and Wokingham. They got diverted to Weybridge as the standalone Staines to Weybridge service was a nuisance for reliability.
Waterloo to Reading was incredibly unreliable in that era, as you note, particularly when the path through Mortlake was missed.
Yes, as I said earlier using frequency instead of speed to make the service more attractive, which is what the now defunct franchise was awarded in.
The current service pattern but at 4tph was essentially what ran across extended peaks on Mon-Fri prior to Covid, plus 2tph via Camberley in the high peak giving a very respectable 6tph between Ascot and Waterloo.
The via Hounslow service was slower, but then missed out stations between Wokingham and Reading - the down services were only six or seven minutes apart between Feltham and Wokingham. They got diverted to Weybridge as the standalone Staines to Weybridge service was a nuisance for reliability.
I think the Hounslow service also called at Vauxhall and Putney, so actually stopped more than the Richmond service in addition to taking a longer route. Maybe it 'looked' faster on the timetable because there were more stations on the Hounslow line that it ran straight through, compared to the main route!
xx27 and xx57 off Waterloo I think, with xx12 and xx42 for the Richmond services. Introduced 1997, I believe.
Some time later I seem to recall Ascot-Reading shorts, giving a 15-min interval "Berkshire metro" type service. Interworked with the Waterloo services, so it would be Waterloo-Reading-Ascot-Reading-Waterloo. I can't for the life of me remember exactly when this was though.
I think the Hounslow service also called at Vauxhall and Putney, so actually stopped more than the Richmond service in addition to taking a longer route. Maybe it 'looked' faster on the timetable because there were more stations on the Hounslow line that it ran straight through, compared to the main route!
xx27 and xx57 off Waterloo I think, with xx12 and xx42 for the Richmond services. Introduced 1997, I believe.
The Hounslow loop isn't really longer than via Richmond. It's within a minute or two of the other route.
The trains via Hounslow stopped at Vauxhall, Putney and Ashford, adding about 5-6 minutes.
One of the problems the services via Hounslow had was level crossing operation. It seemed to be problematic for Feltham signalling centre to deal with non-stopping trains, resulting in delays and often unscheduled stops at Chiswick, Syon Lane and Isleworth because level crossing gates were lowered too late.
Some time later I seem to recall Ascot-Reading shorts, giving a 15-min interval "Berkshire metro" type service. Interworked with the Waterloo services, so it would be Waterloo-Reading-Ascot-Reading-Waterloo. I can't for the life of me remember exactly when this was though.
That service was running when I first moved to the area in 1995. I think it was effectively merged into the Hounslow loop service when that started running through to Reading.
That service was running when I first moved to the area in 1995. I think it was effectively merged into the Hounslow loop service when that started running through to Reading.
That service was running when I first moved to the area in 1995. I think it was effectively merged into the Hounslow loop service when that started running through to Reading.
I guess the implication (I don't know the area well enough to know if this is realistic) is they might drive to Twyford or Maidenhead, as discussed above. I think the new pattern of these GW services is Twyford-Maidenhead-Slough-Paddington.
The road network in parts of Wokingham and esp. Bracknell is very good - fast, grade separated arterials in the latter, but going over to either of Twyford or Maidenhead requires going on the Berks country A/B road network.
Slow and congested, Twyford is a particularly long way round from Bracknell. Wokingham town centre is always bunged up if you're coming from Woky or the vicinity.
Not to mention the limited parking available at Twyford; Maidenhead a little better, but steep.
Even north Bracknell (Wick Hill) to Farnborough is only 19 mins, parking cheaper and 37 mins into London.
Twyford/Maidenhead 14 mins from the same spot, but trying to find parking can be difficult - slightly shorter into London though.
Reading about a 20 min drive too, if time is a necessity and you want a GWR fast, but, as a native Redingensian, parking prices are absurd and congestion is legendary.
The road network in parts of Wokingham and esp. Bracknell is very good - fast, grade separated arterials in the latter, but going over to either of Twyford or Maidenhead requires going on the Berks country A/B road network.
Slow and congested, Twyford is a particularly long way round from Bracknell. Wokingham town centre is always bunged up if you're coming from Woky or the vicinity.
Not to mention the limited parking available at Twyford; Maidenhead a little better, but steep.
Even north Bracknell (Wick Hill) to Farnborough is only 19 mins, parking cheaper and 37 mins into London.
Twyford/Maidenhead 14 mins from the same spot, but trying to find parking can be difficult - slightly shorter into London though.
Reading about a 20 min drive too, if time is a necessity and you want a GWR fast, but, as a native Redingensian, parking prices are absurd and congestion is legendary.
A lot of these journeys look easy on a map but if you don't know the area it's hard to appreciate how bad, and unpredictable, the traffic can be. More journey time added in consequence to allow a buffer if you need to be on a particular train. So the time savings from driving to somewhere with a quicker train can often be an illusion.
There's also the walk from the car park to station which in places like Maidenhead is not insignificant.
A lot of these journeys look easy on a map but if you don't know the area it's hard to appreciate how bad, and unpredictable, the traffic can be. More journey time added in consequence to allow a buffer if you need to be on a particular train. So the time savings from driving to somewhere with a quicker train can often be an illusion.
There's also the walk from the car park to station which in places like Maidenhead is not insignificant.
Yes, traffic is solid in the area in the peaks. The roads to Maidenhead and Slough are poor and the inference that it's only a 20 min drive to Reading Station is laughable. Train beats that journey every time.
Anyway, the whole notion that in a town of 114k inhabitants that is 25 miles from the centre of London and is directly linked by a train service should *drive* to another town to catch a train could only be dreamt up on these forums.
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