Are mobile virtual network operators as good as major carriers?

[johncrossley]

Are mobile virtual network operators (MVNOs) as good as major carriers? We know they are generally cheaper, often a lot cheaper, and customer service is often better as well. But what are the downsides, if any?

 

[[.n]]

One downside would be that they can (and do) switch the underlying network they use, so if you chose randomMVNO based on the fact it ran on the EE network (for coverage that suited you) then that isn't guaranteed.

Another one is that they do often close down, and that process of moving to another provider isn't always smooth, so there is a risk of losing your number/credit

 

[GusB]

One downside would be that they can (and do) switch the underlying network they use, so if you chose randomMVNO based on the fact it ran on the EE network (for coverage that suited you) then that isn't guaranteed.

That's about the only thing I can think of that would be a drawback.

Of the two SIMs in my phone, both are on MVNO carriers. My main number is with iD mobile, which runs on the Three network, and I have my second SIM from Tesco, which runs on O2.

I've no complaints with either, and the deal I get from iD is very good - 100GB data, unlimited calls and texts for £12.

 

[Flying Snail]

One downside would be that they can (and do) switch the underlying network they use, so if you chose randomMVNO based on the fact it ran on the EE network (for coverage that suited you) then that isn't guaranteed.

Another one is that they do often close down, and that process of moving to another provider isn't always smooth, so there is a risk of losing your number/credit

When has either of these scenarios happened?

And with the latter has any operator ever folded overnight leaving people unable to port their number?

 

[GusB]

When has either of these scenarios happened?

And with the latter has any operator ever folded overnight leaving people unable to port their number?

Virgin Mobile was originally on one2one, latterly T-Mobile and then EE (same network, different names), but apparently there were plans to switch customers over to the Vodafone network. Their merger with o2 has put and end to these plans.

 

[DelayRepay]

Virgin Mobile was originally on one2one, latterly T-Mobile and then EE (same network, different names), but apparently there were plans to switch customers over to the Vodafone network. Their merger with o2 has put and end to these plans.

Also Asda Mobile moved from EE to Vodafone a couple of years ago.

If your EE coverage was good but your Vodafone coverage poor, this would be quite annoying. Although probably less of an issue than it used to be as coverage has improved over the years and things like public wifi become more common meaning gaps aren't as much of an issue as they used to be.

 

[pdq]

I have used giffgaff in the past which runs on O2. I am how on O2 as their deal for a new phone plus airtime was better value while I'm paying for the phone.

Coverage is, of course, identical. The downsides of GG are that they don't support WiFi calling and their roaming charges are higher. The lack of WiFi calling is a biggie, as it means using a mobile regularly in the house is still a no no, as our signal is just not up to it.

 

[johncrossley]

Coverage is, of course, identical. The downsides of GG are that they don't support WiFi calling and their roaming charges are higher. The lack of WiFi calling is a biggie, as it means using a mobile regularly in the house is still a no no, as our signal is just not up to it.

Many of the MVNOs have Wi-Fi calling, and most of them still don't have surcharges when using in the EU, other than the fair use limit.

 

[themeone]

I've used a number of MVNO's on the Vodafone network over the years and yet I've always found coverage and line quality better on Vodafone itself. I know MVNO's always deny there's any difference so of course it could just be my perception. I now use Voxi which I understand actually is Vodafone, just using a different brand name, and coverage and quality do indeed seem the same as Vodafone.

 

[najaB]

I've used a number of MVNO's on the Vodafone network over the years and yet I've always found coverage and line quality better on Vodafone itself. I know MVNO's always deny there's any difference so of course it could just be my perception

It's probably 95% perception, but where line quality is concerned the MVNO will have paid for reserved bandwidth - it's not inconceivable that when the network is busy there could be contention for the main network operator's customers while the MVNO has capacity going spare.

 

[Richardr]

Virgin Mobile was originally on one2one, latterly T-Mobile and then EE (same network, different names), but apparently there were plans to switch customers over to the Vodafone network. Their merger with o2 has put and end to these plans.

They certainly moved some customers from the EE network to the Vodafone network - I was one - but as you say have moved now to their owned O2 network. Only the latter required a new SIM card, the first was seamless.

I guess they are no longer a mobile virtual network, and I understand they will wholly align the brands shortly.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Many of the MVNOs have Wi-Fi calling, and most of them still don't have surcharges when using in the EU, other than the fair use limit.

The cost of providing data roaming is next to nothing nowadays. It's truly amazing that the UK didn't include mobile roaming as part of the Withdrawal Agreement.

I wonder - did UK operators also introduce roaming fees when visiting Gibraltar too? My Polish contract still treats Gibraltar as part of the UK for roaming purposes, and I have the same allowance in the UK as in the EU.

 

[johncrossley]

I wonder - did UK operators also introduce roaming fees when visiting Gibraltar too? My Polish contract still treats Gibraltar as part of the UK for roaming purposes, and I have the same allowance in the UK as in the EU.

I checked Lebara, EE (pay as you go) and 1p and none of them have roaming fees for Gibraltar. 1p and EE (pay as you go) don't have roaming fees for Switzerland and Jersey either, but Lebara does. That is the same situation as before Brexit. Jersey and Switzerland have never been part of the EU roaming deal but some networks include them voluntarily.

 

[telstarbox]

I have used giffgaff in the past which runs on O2. I am how on O2 as their deal for a new phone plus airtime was better value while I'm paying for the phone.

Coverage is, of course, identical. The downsides of GG are that they don't support WiFi calling and their roaming charges are higher. The lack of WiFi calling is a biggie, as it means using a mobile regularly in the house is still a no no, as our signal is just not up to it.

I'm on giffgaff and had free EU roaming across various countries last year - is this a difference between giffgaff tarriffs?

 

[[.n]]

When has either of these scenarios happened?

And with the latter has any operator ever folded overnight leaving people unable to port their number?

there have been loads of examples of these scenarios, including difficulty with porting - a quick web search will show some of these

 

[pdq]

I'm on giffgaff and had free EU roaming across various countries last year - is this a difference between giffgaff tarriffs?

Sorry my mistake.

 

[Jimini]

Sky mobile user here (employee discount so why not eh) -- the only gripe I have is the lack of wi-fi on the tube, but otherwise no difference to service levels encountered on the primary networks.

 

[Flying Snail]

there have been loads of examples of these scenarios, including difficulty with porting - a quick web search will show some of these

You are the one making the claim, you ought to be able to back it up. This wouldn't be much of a discussion board if the stock answer was to google it.

I asked because I am not overly familiar with UK virtual networks and although it sounded rather unlikely that any would go bust taking customers numbers with them, I couldn't say it hadn't happened. Your response makes me even more sceptical.

 

[jon0844]

Virgin Mobile was originally on one2one, latterly T-Mobile and then EE (same network, different names), but apparently there were plans to switch customers over to the Vodafone network. Their merger with o2 has put and end to these plans.

There are Virgin customers who are on different networks depending on their SIM, although ultimately everyone will end up on O2 at some stage.

First it was T-Mobile, then EE, then Vodafone and now O2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2023 ==

I have used giffgaff in the past which runs on O2. I am how on O2 as their deal for a new phone plus airtime was better value while I'm paying for the phone.

Coverage is, of course, identical. The downsides of GG are that they don't support WiFi calling and their roaming charges are higher. The lack of WiFi calling is a biggie, as it means using a mobile regularly in the house is still a no no, as our signal is just not up to it.

Giffgaff can run slower than O2, and is due to a lower network priority. It will only really be an issue in heavily congested areas.

The plus is that you can get 5G on Giffgaff without having to sign up to a contract, although you get a discount for auto-renewing Goody bags, whereas O2 is still to fix its ancient PAYG system to allow 5G, Wi-Fi Calling or Voice over LTE.. all reasons it can't shut down its 3G network yet, when all the others will do so this year at some point, or very early 2024 at the latest.

 

[danm14]

You are the one making the claim, you ought to be able to back it up. This wouldn't be much of a discussion board if the stock answer was to google it.

I asked because I am not overly familiar with UK virtual networks and although it sounded rather unlikely that any would go bust taking customers numbers with them, I couldn't say it hadn't happened. Your response makes me even more sceptical.

The porting system in the UK is an absolute disaster.

In order to port your number, you are required to obtain a Porting Authorisation Code from your current provider, and this cannot be bypassed - so I would have no hesitation to believe that your provider failing would make it either impossible or very difficult and time-consuming to get your number back

In my own experience, six months ago, porting my number from Lebara to Asda Mobile failed. My Lebara SIM was fully disabled and the account closed, outbound calls and texts from my Asda Mobile SIM still showed the Asda Mobile number, I couldn't receive calls or texts at all to either my own number or the Asda Mobile number, and callers to my own number were told "the number you have dialled has been disconnected". It took over three weeks, and somewhere in the region of 20-25 hours of my time contacting Lebara, Asda Mobile and Vodafone (whose network both Lebara and Asda Mobile use) to get the issues resolved such that I could receive calls and texts again - and even then it took a further week before Lebara customers could call or text my number.

 

[jon0844]

The cost of providing data roaming is next to nothing nowadays. It's truly amazing that the UK didn't include mobile roaming as part of the Withdrawal Agreement.

I wonder - did UK operators also introduce roaming fees when visiting Gibraltar too? My Polish contract still treats Gibraltar as part of the UK for roaming purposes, and I have the same allowance in the UK as in the EU.

Once we left the EU roaming charges did become a thing as the wholesale charges kick in. Inside the EU, there is no such issue and so roaming is effectively free (obviously networks find ways to cover the losses elsewhere, but the UK still can't get around such fees).

Networks, such as O2, believe they can take the hit for a vastly reduced allowance of data usable in the EU - but most have decided enough is enough and opted to charge. This might be as little as £10 a month, but even then the data allowance is hugely reduced and you might find that on a two week beach holiday where the kids want to watch Netflix or iPlayer (oh, wait, the latter is probably not possible anymore, or Sky Sports etc) you run out of data and then have to pay a small fortune. But, hey, we got Brexit done!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2023 ==

The porting system in the UK is an absolute disaster.

I have only ported numbers a couple of times and neither time did it go as planned. Getting the code was quick and easy though, which is better than the days of phoning up and having to speak to retentions for about 6 hours as they keep refusing to give the code until they've tried one more time to get you to stay...

 

[danm14]

where the kids want to watch Netflix or iPlayer (oh, wait, the latter is probably not possible anymore, or Sky Sports etc)

On most networks you will still appear to be in the UK even if you are roaming - data is still routed through your own providers' servers regardless of where you are in the world - so accessing BBC iPlayer, or any other UK-only service for that matter, would not be an issue (but accessing services that are only available in the country you're visiting would not be possible). This often causes issues while roaming far away from the UK, especially in Australia and New Zealand, as routing all data via the UK introduces very significant latency. I understand the actual reason for this is to ensure that age filtering and parental controls, which all UK providers are required to provide, continue to function while abroad.

It was never possible to watch BBC iPlayer from a non-UK internet connection - compliance with EU regulations requiring streaming providers to allow customers access to their services while on temporary visits to other EU/EEA countries was only mandatory for paid-for services. Free services could choose to opt-in, but BBC chose not to.

 

[Hadders]

The porting system in the UK is an absolute disaster.

In order to port your number, you are required to obtain a Porting Authorisation Code from your current provider, and this cannot be bypassed - so I would have no hesitation to believe that your provider failing would make it either impossible or very difficult and time-consuming to get your number back

In my own experience, six months ago, porting my number from Lebara to Asda Mobile failed. My Lebara SIM was fully disabled and the account closed, outbound calls and texts from my Asda Mobile SIM still showed the Asda Mobile number, I couldn't receive calls or texts at all to either my own number or the Asda Mobile number, and callers to my own number were told "the number you have dialled has been disconnected". It took over three weeks, and somewhere in the region of 20-25 hours of my time contacting Lebara, Asda Mobile and Vodafone (whose network both Lebara and Asda Mobile use) to get the issues resolved such that I could receive calls and texts again - and even then it took a further week before Lebara customers could call or text my number.

I've ported my number several times. Much easier nowadays as you simply send a text to your current operator and the code comes back by return.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I just ported our two numbers, both from 3 to Lebara and in both cases it was painless. Just pending a final bill from 3 to confirm that.

There is a way to avoid ever* having to port a number which involves
- a monthly cost currently £1.44/month (over and above your network tariff)
- a one-time new number at the outset, which you can run in parallel with your existing for as long as it takes to get all your correspondents updated
- using DATA as distinct from a call tariff

which
- will work anywhere in the world, as long as you have some internet access - so, free of any roaming charges if/when you are on eg a hotel WiFi etc.
- is not affected by (eg) the switch off of anything below 4g and the need for a VOLTE approved handset (is the case already in much of the USA)
- is, for all intents and purposes a landline number, meaning that any correspondent who uses a landline to call you isn't facing the surcharges many such providers apply to mobile calls
- is independent from any specific mobile network

and that is to rent a virtual landline number from a suitable provider (of which there are several) and give that out to your correspondents. And set your handset up to receive calls on that number.

If you want to make outgoing calls from the same "line" then there is a nominal per-minute charge. Depending on which number provider you choose, they may offer a call bundle. Or, using a different internet-based service, you can get unlimited outgoing calls for around £30 per year to any UK 01/02/03 landline, and many, many other countries inc. USA, and low per-minute rates to other destinations.


==================
* ever: similarly assumes the provider stays in business and/or hands their business over to a successor if not.

 

[najaB]

I just ported our two numbers, both from 3 to Lebara and in both cases it was painless. Just pending a final bill from 3 to confirm that.

There is a way to avoid ever* having to port a number which involves
- a monthly cost currently £1.44/month (over and above your network tariff)
- a one-time new number at the outset, which you can run in parallel with your existing for as long as it takes to get all your correspondents updated
- using DATA as distinct from a call tariff

which
- will work anywhere in the world, as long as you have some internet access - so, free of any roaming charges if/when you are on eg a hotel WiFi etc.
- is not affected by (eg) the switch off of anything below 4g and the need for a VOLTE approved handset (is the case already in much of the USA)
- is, for all intents and purposes a landline number, meaning that any correspondent who uses a landline to call you isn't facing the surcharges many such providers apply to mobile calls
- is independent from any specific mobile network

and that is to rent a virtual landline number from a suitable provider (of which there are several) and give that out to your correspondents. And set your handset up to receive calls on that number.

If you want to make outgoing calls from the same "line" then there is a nominal per-minute charge. Depending on which number provider you choose, they may offer a call bundle. Or, using a different internet-based service, you can get unlimited outgoing calls for around £30 per year to any UK 01/02/03 landline, and many, many other countries inc. USA, and low per-minute rates to other destinations.


==================
* ever: similarly assumes the provider stays in business and/or hands their business over to a successor if not.

The only downside of that is being unable to receive calls when you don't have an Internet connection.

 

[mikeg]

Some are better than others. I believe Plusnot still doesn't support short code messaging and most come with premium calls and roaming disabled as default. THAT said, I'm with TalkMobile, who I believe are actually owned by Vodafone (certainly judging by the address on the bottom of their website) and have no plans to change. I still get free roaming in many European locations (though oddly enough not the isle of man), and where I don't the charges seem more reasonable than most MVNOs. I was paying £8/month for 8GB but shortly after my contract ended I got an automatic offer for 20GB for £7.95, which I am very impressed with. You don't get any of the 'perks' you would with Vodafone but I'm happy without them as they'd probably go unused or not be worth the money.

 

[lachlan]

Once we left the EU roaming charges did become a thing as the wholesale charges kick in. Inside the EU, there is no such issue and so roaming is effectively free (obviously networks find ways to cover the losses elsewhere, but the UK still can't get around such fees).

Networks, such as O2, believe they can take the hit for a vastly reduced allowance of data usable in the EU - but most have decided enough is enough and opted to charge. This might be as little as £10 a month, but even then the data allowance is hugely reduced and you might find that on a two week beach holiday where the kids want to watch Netflix or iPlayer (oh, wait, the latter is probably not possible anymore, or Sky Sports etc) you run out of data and then have to pay a small fortune. But, hey, we got Brexit done!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2023 ==



I have only ported numbers a couple of times and neither time did it go as planned. Getting the code was quick and easy though, which is better than the days of phoning up and having to speak to retentions for about 6 hours as they keep refusing to give the code until they've tried one more time to get you to stay...

I would be interested to know what networks still allow free roaming for new customers. I had both an id mobile SIM and a Giffgaff SIM and both severely limited the amount of data you could use abroad (to something like 5Gb iirc)

 

[johncrossley]

I would be interested to know what networks still allow free roaming for new customers. I had both an id mobile SIM and a Giffgaff SIM and both severely limited the amount of data you could use abroad (to something like 5Gb iirc)

Lebara allow you to use up to 30 GB free roaming per month in the EU.

 

[[.n]]

You are the one making the claim, you ought to be able to back it up. This wouldn't be much of a discussion board if the stock answer was to google it.

I asked because I am not overly familiar with UK virtual networks and although it sounded rather unlikely that any would go bust taking customers numbers with them, I couldn't say it hadn't happened. Your response makes me even more sceptical.

My claim was that the process wasn't smooth and there was a risk of losing numbers/credit

A couple of OFCOM documents about difficulties https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/50663/name_withheld_4.pdf and https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/24324/mnp.pdf

MVNO where number porting / credit transfer hasn't been easy (includes some big names)
Blyk
LycaMobile
Ovivo
Sainsbury Mobile
TalkTalk Mobile

 

[DelayRepay]

My claim was that the process wasn't smooth and there was a risk of losing numbers/credit

A couple of OFCOM documents about difficulties https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/50663/name_withheld_4.pdf and https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/24324/mnp.pdf

Those documents are over 10 years old, and appear to be OFCOM consultations about how to improve the process. So would be interesting to know if this is still a problem in 2023.