How much has through running pushed up Elizabeth Line Ridership?

[cambsy]

In lat couple months, have ridden Elizabeth Line couple of times, since through running, once on a weekday and once on a strike day Saturday, in both cases trains were crush loaded or standing and very busy.

So what affect has through running had?and is Elizabeth line running at or near capacity in peak? And Saturdays etc? And could it soon need the maximum 11 coaches it can run?

I have been on some some crush loaded trains in both peaks, and when travelled weekday, was happy to see it busy all day, no quiet trains once beyond very early morning.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I'm a regular commuter on the Elizabeth line. I've seen a big increase in people travelling to / from Southall, Hanwell areas through to destinations east of Paddington

 

[JonathanH]

I suspect the OP's definition of crush loading and the design level of crush loading are different. A 345 is built to carry 1500 passengers at actual crush load. Clearly some people have to stand on busy trains.

 

[357]

Used it many times off peak and while you will need to walk through the train to find two seats next to each other, or occasionally stand, I'd say the line has very healthy loadings but is nowhere near crush loaded.

 

[Snow1964]

I suspect the OP's definition of crush loading and the design level of crush loading are different. A 345 is built to carry 1500 passengers at actual crush load. Clearly some people have to stand on busy trains.

It was either 4 or 5 people per square metre of floor space, that capacity is calculated from.

The Op would find his answer on the purple graph headed EL on page 3 of the TfL Finance report, has peaked over 200%, but is averaging 186% of pre-covid levels

Journeys on the Elizabeth line (EL) have been above expectations since the opening of full services on 24 May. Journeys are 20 million better than Budget in the year to date, with income £29m higher than expected. Some of this upside is offset in other modes as customers switch services.

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s19012/Finance%20Rreport%20Presentation.pdf

 

[JonathanH]

With such long trains and entry / exit at platform ends in many cases I think there are some issues with passenger distribution. For example, I travelled from Tottenham Court Road to Stratford around 0840 on Thursday towards the front of the train and noted that the platform at Farringdon was decidedly busier at the west end than the east end as we went through, as would be expected given the entry point.

 

[43066]

I suspect the OP's definition of crush loading and the design level of crush loading are different. A 345 is built to carry 1500 passengers at actual crush load. Clearly some people have to stand on busy trains.

I’ve been on some EL trains that are definitely approaching crush loading in the design level sense!

 

[Western 52]

I've done some off peak journeys between Whitechapel and Heathrow this month and found the trains were very busy, but nowhere near capacity. The issue for airport passengers is where to put luggage! It's a good service though.

 

[aw1972]

I regularly catch the 0739 from Slough and it's noticeably busier than before through running.
I wonder if the commuter flow is now more condensed with through running?
If you start work at 9 then the 0739 will get you to the West End, City and Canary Wharf on time. That flow used to be spread out given the need to continue your journey from Paddington by Tube.
If you throw in the fact that there's currently a gap in Elizabeth Line trains between 0719 and 0739 it's no wonder it's busier.

 

[Benjwri]

And could it soon need the maximum 11 coaches it can run?

One would hope not, it would take years to get 11 car trains into operation, with gaining funding, restarting production lines, software development, testing and extension of each train.

 

[setdown]

At first I thought that ridership had increased, and it may well have, but then I remembered that there's a twelve minute gap for westbound trains from Paddington from 17:48-18:00. That probably makes the 18:00 appear a lot busier than it would be otherwise.

 

[ELfan]

Ridership has definitely increased since through running. Morning trains to Paddington are now standing room only from before Ealing Broadway and pretty full by Paddington (though I've not been on any which I'd describe as crush loaded). I think it's taken people off both the central line and the piccadilly line but also generated some additional journeys (I've done additional leisure journeys as well as being less reluctant to make the commute to work).

 

[Taunton]

The differential loading in the trains, busier at the ends than in the middle, seems an issue from consecutive stations in the core being all designed to bridge between two entrances at either end, increasing as regular users get to know the positions. If I recall correctly, the Victoria Line design deliberately set the platform entrances in different positions at different stations to overcome this issue.

It is stated that passengers can readily distribute along the train when inside, but also that the trains have substantial standing capacity. Unfortunately that's the same floorspace being described twice, for it's not practical to get along the train when there are plenty of standees. The standing capacity is also stated as if passengers distribute equally along all the square metres, where in practice they concentrate around the doors, especially groups talking to one another. This is a universal issue, it's always been so, it's not going to go away, and designers need to understand and handle it.

A new one I notice is standees who are fixated on some video game on their phones, who take up position often against the door screens, slouched at 30 degrees or so so they have the dexterity with their hands, obstructing the passenger flow and completely oblivious to the world and to any inconvenience to those around. Having presented this trip hazard with their feet, they then look daggers if anyone then has the temerity to inadvertently trip over them.

 

[A0]

I'm a regular commuter on the Elizabeth line. I've seen a big increase in people travelling to / from Southall, Hanwell areas through to destinations east of Paddington

However, whether that's 'new' business or simply people who previously changed to the Met / Circle / Bakerloo at Paddington or even the Central / District at Ealing Broadway is not clear.

 

[Horizon22]

Much busier on the Western end, or its encouraged to get people to spread out more! Trains from Paddington to Heathrow used to be really lightly loaded at the front, but now there is regularly no or just a few seats available. Services from Shenfield into Paddington are normally much more lightly loaded after Farringdon; much of the demand still gets off at Liverpool St.

I suspect the OP's definition of crush loading and the design level of crush loading are different. A 345 is built to carry 1500 passengers at actual crush load. Clearly some people have to stand on busy trains.

Indeed. The whole stock is built around an expectation of standing and in fact that's where 70% of the capacity comes from.

 

[DC1989]

Many people have probably gotten so used to be able to get a seat on the 9 car trains, especially when they were introduced during the pandemic. It can seem odd to have to stand

Though I do think people make less room than they would do on the other tube lines. I feel like on the central line people anticipate that more people will get on a proactively move into a tiny gap to allow more room, whereas people are not doing that so much on these trains. Could be in my head though!

 

[Horizon22]

Many people have probably gotten so used to be able to get a seat on the 9 car trains, especially when they were introduced during the pandemic. It can seem odd to have to stand

Though I do think people make less room than they would do on the other tube lines. I feel like on the central line people anticipate that more people will get on a proactively move into a tiny gap to allow more room, whereas people are not doing that so much on these trains. Could be in my head though!

It's still relatively early days - it has only been just over 1 month of through running (interspersed with strikes). Give it until maybe February or March next year and the on-board trends will start to settle.

 

[Joliver]

Elizabeth Line, the second highest TOC for journeys made in the last quarter.

https://twitter.com/railandroad/status/1603399915815796741?t=dIJkvsuWvCwh-qKG6Bq-8w&s=08

 

[Snow1964]

Appears from graph in section 6.2 of this TfL report that journeys are upto about 3.9m per week

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s19339/elc-20230124-pt1-elizabeth-line-operations-and-programme-completion-update.pdf

 

[Taunton]

Its already noticeable among my contacts just how they have now refocused on the Elizabeth Line stations. It's taken a while to understand that the east entrance to Bond Street is just behind Oxford Circus. Tottenham Court Road seems to have become the station of choice for places right down through Covent Garden and Soho to The Strand.

 

[bicbasher]

Like I've done with the tube, I'm aware of where to walk to on the platforms to get the best chance of a seat or to position myself closer to the escalator or lift exits.

Also as mentioned in the above post, I now use Bond Street for Oxford Circus at the Hanover Square entrance which is a pleasure to use compared to the latter and Liverpool Street to change for Moorgate, while all my West End rail journeys are now via Whitechapel. A real revolution in making rail easier to use in London.

 

[Thirteen]

The new entrance for Bond Street is fantastic because of its location.

 

[185143]

Many people have probably gotten so used to be able to get a seat on the 9 car trains, especially when they were introduced during the pandemic. It can seem odd to have to stand

Though I do think people make less room than they would do on the other tube lines. I feel like on the central line people anticipate that more people will get on a proactively move into a tiny gap to allow more room, whereas people are not doing that so much on these trains. Could be in my head though!

Despite the stupid name, it's not a tube line.

 

[KGX]

I was surprised at how busy it was in the morning and evening rush hours last week. Can't imagine how busy it would have been had Covid not happened.

 

[DC1989]

Despite the stupid name, it's not a tube line.

It hardly matters does it?

 

[FuzzyDuck]

Last week I needed to get from Reading to Tottenham Court Road, the ability to just use the same train from Reading never ever came into the question. Took a fast train to Paddington and changed. Same on the way back.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Last week I needed to get from Reading to Tottenham Court Road, the ability to just use the same train from Reading never ever came into the question. Took a fast train to Paddington and changed. Same on the way back.

With times like these (google maps) I doubt many people are doing the whole journey,
I think through running probably benefits people for Heathrow and closer towns than from Reading

 

[Taunton]

Like others I have paid attention to the loadings. One to note is that with the two services alternating, GWML to Abbey Wood trains seem to drop off loads as they go east through the core, while Paddington to Shenfield services pick up along the same stretch.

Whitechapel seems surprisingly busy, while Canary Wharf always seems surprisingly quiet. The retail units in Canary Wharf station, open for some years, tell me they have not seen much of an uptick since the trains started running. Having waited for ever for the station to open, they are now resigned to waiting further until the big commercial development on the north side of the station, where construction work has now started, is finished. It is however a lot easier to get into Jubilee Line trains on the east end now, where various routing combinations are now handled better. From Canary Wharf, unless going to Waterloo itself, we never seem to use it much any more.

People working in the major financial offices along the north side of Canary Wharf, North Colonnade, who live along the east end of the Central Line (quite a number) say it's quicker now to take the Elizabeth to Whitechapel, change, and change again at Stratford, rather than take the Jubilee or the DLR.

Amusingly, passengers at Canary Wharf (only) have taken it on themselves to queue nicely at the platform doors, as was long marked out at the Jubilee Line station there. Old habits die hard.

Paddington still seems the busiest core station. I thought it would fall off when through running started, but no.

 

[Horizon22]

Like others I have paid attention to the loadings. One to note is that with the two services alternating, GWML to Abbey Wood trains seem to drop off loads as they go east through the core, while Paddington to Shenfield services pick up along the same stretch.

Whitechapel seems surprisingly busy, while Canary Wharf always seems surprisingly quiet. The retail units in Canary Wharf station, open for some years, tell me they have not seen much of an uptick since the trains started running. Having waited for ever for the station to open, they are now resigned to waiting further until the big commercial development on the north side of the station, where construction work has now started, is finished. It is however a lot easier to get into Jubilee Line trains on the east end now, where various routing combinations are now handled better. From Canary Wharf, unless going to Waterloo itself, we never seem to use it much any more.

People working in the major financial offices along the north side of Canary Wharf, North Colonnade, who live along the east end of the Central Line (quite a number) say it's quicker now to take the Elizabeth to Whitechapel, change, and change again at Stratford, rather than take the Jubilee or the DLR.

Amusingly, passengers at Canary Wharf (only) have taken it on themselves to queue nicely at the platform doors, as was long marked out at the Jubilee Line station there. Old habits die hard.

Paddington still seems the busiest core station. I thought it would fall off when through running started, but no.

There's still a lot less demand going towards or from Eastern stations which isn't that surprising, considering that people have never really gone that way and also that Liverpool Street / The City is more of a hub than Paddington is. A lot of people who were previously going towards Paddington were changing for the tube anyway to get deeper into Central London and/or Canary Wharf the City which I think explains some of that.

Canary Wharf seems pretty "peaky" to me and dies down significantly after 09:30. That being said its becoming a lot more of a destination in its own right, so I think give it 18-24 months and off-peak will increase more. I'm not sure whether the double change at Stratford/Whitechapel is a bit off-putting still. As for Whitechapel I only think its busier because a) that's the agreed interchange point and b) more shifting of the Overground interchange further north rather than Canada Water (which is a bit of a nightmare).

I'd disagree on the busiest core station - would suggest it is probably TCR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2023 ==

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With times like these (google maps) I doubt many people are doing the whole journey,
I think through running probably benefits people for Heathrow and closer towns than from Reading

Yeah Reading & Slough are obvious trains to catch a fast (or semi-fast) GWR and change, Maidenhead is more marginal and then anything inner isn't served by GWR very frequently anyway so makes sense to just remain on the train.

Might be interesting if the GWR semi-fast train to Didcot Parkway goes fast to Slough in May '23 as has been mooted as to whether that changes anything.

 

[bicbasher]

Like others I have paid attention to the loadings. One to note is that with the two services alternating, GWML to Abbey Wood trains seem to drop off loads as they go east through the core, while Paddington to Shenfield services pick up along the same stretch.

Whitechapel seems surprisingly busy, while Canary Wharf always seems surprisingly quiet. The retail units in Canary Wharf station, open for some years, tell me they have not seen much of an uptick since the trains started running. Having waited for ever for the station to open, they are now resigned to waiting further until the big commercial development on the north side of the station, where construction work has now started, is finished. It is however a lot easier to get into Jubilee Line trains on the east end now, where various routing combinations are now handled better. From Canary Wharf, unless going to Waterloo itself, we never seem to use it much any more.

People working in the major financial offices along the north side of Canary Wharf, North Colonnade, who live along the east end of the Central Line (quite a number) say it's quicker now to take the Elizabeth to Whitechapel, change, and change again at Stratford, rather than take the Jubilee or the DLR.

Amusingly, passengers at Canary Wharf (only) have taken it on themselves to queue nicely at the platform doors, as was long marked out at the Jubilee Line station there. Old habits die hard.

Paddington still seems the busiest core station. I thought it would fall off when through running started, but no.

That explains why TfL have recommended Whitechapel rather than Paddington to use as the interchange station to transfer to a Shenfield or Abbey Wood service.

Whitechapel also doesn't have two exits at each end of the platforms, so of course passengers are using the one set of escalators to exit or interchange between the Overground and District/H&C.