GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[Anonymous10]

Yesterday, was a 3car 158, today a 3car 166
Likely to be very busy in Bath area

Some Cardiff - Portsmouth trains unfortunately get reduced to 2car due to GWRs lack of serviceable rolling stock (should be 5car)

It should be a 5 car turbo, but it will almost definitely be short formed to a 3 car, although you have a good chance of it still being a turbo.

Expect it to be pretty packed especially around Bristol and Bath

Thanks both I did Bristol to Weymouth on Glastonbury weekend so can't be that bad. When do they release what's planned for the route?

 

[Class172]

Some Cardiff - Portsmouth trains unfortunately get reduced to 2car due to GWRs lack of serviceable rolling stock (should be 5car)

At the station earlier I heard a cancellation announcement with a reason I’ve never heard before: “this is due to a greater number of trains being out of service than normal.”

 

[Benjwri]

At the station earlier I heard a cancellation announcement with a reason I’ve never heard before: “this is due to a greater number of trains being out of service than normal.”

It's a common reason used by GWR for short forming, that would be the first time I've heard it stretching to cancellations, it's fair to say that's not a good sign about the current situation.

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Thanks both I did Bristol to Weymouth on Glastonbury weekend so can't be that bad. When do they release what's planned for the route?

In all honesty I wouldn't be so sure about that, they make a concerted effort that weekend. Rush hour sees passengers held back from the local services at Bath most days.

It will be on RTT at some point early the morning of the service most likely.

 

[Anonymous10]

It's a common reason used by GWR for short forming, that would be the first time I've heard it stretching to cancellations, it's fair to say that's not a good sign about the current situation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==


In all honesty I wouldn't be so sure about that, they make a concerted effort that weekend. Rush hour sees passengers held back from the local services at Bath most days.

It will be on RTT at some point early the morning of the service most likely.

True however it was a 2 carriage train on the only non strike day and the train was the half hourly service from Parkway to temple meads if its as packed it'll be interesting

 

[Benjwri]

True however it was a 2 carriage train on the only non strike day and the train was the half hourly service from Parkway to temple meads if its as packed it'll be interesting

You're probably just about late enough that it won't, if you were travelling a few hours earlier it might. Photos have been posted upthread, and whenever I have travelled through Bath Spa at that time these trains have had staff packing as many people as they possibly can on and having to tell the rest bad luck.

 

[Snow1964]

Just heard on the news as part of the £2bn Government levelling up projects there is enhanced trains in South West.

• A £50 million grant will help create a new direct train service, linking 4 of Cornwall’s largest urban areas: Newquay, St Austell, Truro, and Falmouth/Penryn. This will level up access to jobs, skills, education, and amenities in one of the most economically disadvantaged areas in the UK.

Will stretch the wests train fleet which is already short of serviceable stock

Landmark Levelling Up Fund to spark transformational change across the UK

More than 100 projects awarded share of £2.1 billion from Round 2 of government’s flagship Levelling Up Fund to create jobs and boost the economy

www.gov.uk

 

[Benjwri]

Will stretch the wests train fleet which is already short of serviceable stock

As mentioned upthread recently trains were cancelled due to a lack of stock, it simply isn’t possible to do this without either a frequency decrease elsewhere or new units.

There is also obviously still MetroWest technically happening, which will require even more units and hasn’t been cancelled yet.

There is either some imminent announcement of extra rolling stock from elsewhere in the country, or more likely I fear no communication and this hasn’t been thought through.

 

[FGW_DID]

As mentioned upthread recently trains were cancelled due to a lack of stock

Lack of serviceable stock, there's a difference. There's never more working diagrams than units in a fleet.

Eg There are 33 diagrams for 33 Class 387 EMU, M-F 27 of those diagrams have workings leaving 6 units available for spares / maintenance requirements.

 

[Benjwri]

Lack of serviceable stock, there's a difference. There's never more working diagrams than units in a fleet.

Eg There are 33 diagrams for 33 Class 387 EMU, M-F 27 of those diagrams have workings leaving 6 units available for spares / maintenance requirements.

Yes, sorry, was typing on a phone in a rush. My point was the fact there are not enough serviceable units to even run all services, let alone run all diagrams with workings, is a further worrying development in the situation in the west.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems GWR are getting extra stock from May

Extract of yesterdays Parliamentary debate

Now for the news my hon. Friend has been waiting for: I am happy to confirm that, subject to the provision of the necessary funding by the West of England Combined Authority, services between Bristol and Gloucester will be doubled to two trains per hour from the May 2023 timetable change as part of the wider MetroWest scheme. I thank my hon. Friend for helping make this happen and the West of England Combined Authority, which has worked in partnership with officials in my Department and the operator, Great Western Railway, to make this possible. GWR has identified all the rolling stock that it will need for the extra trains and is confident that it will have all the staff training completed in time to introduce the additional services from May. I hope that that provides the assurance my hon. Friend was looking for, but as always—and in answer to his request—I am happy to meet him to understand any further concerns, and to help him make this happen.

West of England Combined Authority meets 27th Jan to confirm funding

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-01-18/debates/4414182C-7053-4A4A-A2A3-54489D1BC647/TrainServicesSouthGloucestershire

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2023 ==

As mentioned upthread recently trains were cancelled due to a lack of stock, it simply isn’t possible to do this without either a frequency decrease elsewhere or new units.

There is also obviously still MetroWest technically happening, which will require even more units and hasn’t been cancelled yet.

There is either some imminent announcement of extra rolling stock from elsewhere in the country, or more likely I fear no communication and this hasn’t been thought through.

Confirmed yesterday evening in Parliament, subject to WECA funding ratification 27th Jan.

No idea how much extra stock, or where it is coming from, although if I was speculating, probably some units replaced by class 196, 197, as don't think any are yet surplus in Wales.

 

[fgwrich]

Seems GWR are getting extra stock from May

Extract of yesterdays Parliamentary debate

West of England Combined Authority meets 27th Jan to confirm funding

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-01-18/debates/4414182C-7053-4A4A-A2A3-54489D1BC647/TrainServicesSouthGloucestershire

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2023 ==


Confirmed yesterday evening in Parliament, subject to WECA funding ratification 27th Jan.

No idea how much extra stock, or where it is coming from, although if I was speculating, probably some units replaced by class 196, 197, as don't think any are yet surplus in Wales.

It will be interesting to see from where, as aside from internal cascading I can’t see what else will be coming on to the market by then - 180s from EMR? 150s released by Stadlers from TfW? Unwanted 156s from EMR?

 

[Benjwri]

as aside from internal cascading I can’t see what else will be coming on to the market by then

Even internal cascading can't really happen unless they are planning on cutting entire branch lines.

 

[RPI]

I won't hold my breath!

 

[Class172]

No idea how much extra stock, or where it is coming from, although if I was speculating, probably some units replaced by class 196, 197, as don't think any are yet surplus in Wales.

If stock is coming from elsewhere my guess would be it would be something from the sprinter family; preferably something GWR already has to minimise crew training, which would lead to 150s or 158s. I'm not sure what the state is in Wales atm but I believe the first Stadler 231 went into service this week, so we may find some units available as they and the 197s are introduced.

There won't be anything becoming available as a result of the 196 introduction. All the 170s released at WMR are already spoken for at EMT.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

If stock is coming from elsewhere my guess would be it would be something from the sprinter family; preferably something GWR already has to minimise crew training, which would lead to 150s or 158s. I'm not sure what the state is in Wales atm but I believe the first Stadler 231 went into service this week, so we may find some units available as they and the 197s are introduced.

There won't be anything becoming available as a result of the 196 introduction. All the 170s released at WMR are already spoken for at EMT.

The 231s are there to replace 769s until the 756s come in. 150s and 158s won't be free for a while, the latter due to the Cambrian. 175s are the most likely in my eyes as they're slowly going off lease now.

 

[Dai Corner]

The 231s are there to replace 769s until the 756s come in. 150s and 158s won't be free for a while, the latter due to the Cambrian. 175s are the most likely in my eyes as they're slowly going off lease now.

I'd use the 175s to replace 150s & 158s and in turn release those for GWR. No additional clearance or training needs.

 

[Snow1964]

The 231s are there to replace 769s until the 756s come in. 150s and 158s won't be free for a while, the latter due to the Cambrian. 175s are the most likely in my eyes as they're slowly going off lease now.

Could it be 158s from East Midlands, released by 170s, released by new 196s in West Midlands. Perhaps formed 4 car (or 5car) fixed sets releasing the GWR 158s currently operating as single sets. Would avoid any compatibility issues.

The 175s would need more staff training as type is effectively new.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I'd use the 175s to replace 150s & 158s and in turn release those for GWR. No additional clearance or training needs.

Can't replace 158s as 175s can't work the Cambrian.

 

[Dai Corner]

Can't replace 158s as 175s can't work the Cambrian.

Not all the 158s, obviously.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Not all the 158s, obviously.

Realistically then you'd only get 2 or 3 due to needing hot spares / maintenance and probably at least 18 for service.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not all the 158s, obviously.

175s can’t do the 150’s main job of north of Pontypridd - south of Grangetown routes either due to their long carriages.

 

[Dai Corner]

175s can’t do the 150’s main job of north of Pontypridd - south of Grangetown routes either due to their long carriages.

No, but they can do Maesteg, Ebbw Vale, Cardiff-Swansea-West Wales, Cheltenham (I think).

 

[Anonymous10]

No, but they can do Maesteg, Ebbw Vale, Cardiff-Swansea-West Wales, Cheltenham (I think).

Yes they can and 153s can work Rhymney and all the above so could see some 150s move to gwr

 

[Express380]

175s can’t do the 150’s main job of north of Pontypridd - south of Grangetown routes either due to their long carriages.

I thought they could do Bridgend Via Rhoose I'm sure I saw them divert that way

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I thought they could do Bridgend Via Rhoose I'm sure I saw them divert that way

Sure but those services come from Merthyr Tydfil and return to Aberdare

 

[Express380]

Sure but those services come from Merthyr Tydfil and return to Aberdare

Very good point

 

[fgwrich]

The 231s are there to replace 769s until the 756s come in. 150s and 158s won't be free for a while, the latter due to the Cambrian. 175s are the most likely in my eyes as they're slowly going off lease now.

As we've seen in the past though, nothing stopping say Porterbrook offering TfW in effect a peppercorn lease for the 769s allowing some of the 150s to be released first. That way, 150s go to GWR (a guaranteed home), 769s stay for a little longer (no guaranteed home), and Stadler works it's magic to get it's stock into service as rapidly as the can do. After all the 170s were supposed to be on a long lease and look what's happened to them!

 

[QSK19]

Could it be 158s from East Midlands.

Highly doubt it given that they’re staying at EMR so that there is enough stock to cover Liverpool-Norwich. 170s alone can’t fulfil all the Regional services.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Interesting! Some GWR Oxford to London Paddington fasts diagrams are being run by a 6-car Turbo instead of a 5-car IET!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Interesting! Some GWR Oxford to London Paddington fasts diagrams are being run by a 6-car Turbo instead of a 5-car IET!

One diagram was a 6 car Turbo, finishing at Reading after attaching with the Greenford 2 car and running ECS. I believe this was due to 802114 being swapped with 165101 on 1A01 from Bristol Temple Meads.