Missing poster

[island]

I have seen a couple of PF stations where the PF warning posters are not displayed at the entrance to some of the platforms. Should I tell the TOC?

 

[142094]

The TOC should check for themselves, as they run the risk of people using it as a (valid) excuse for not buying before they board. You could send them off an email but I'd expect a standard "thank you for letting us know" response.

 

[RPI]

I dont believe that the DFT spec is that precise about where the signs should be, it says "warning notices should be displayed near to entrances and on platforms".

 

[sheff1]

The DfT are more specific than that:
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Warning notices
4.21 Penalty fares warning notices must be displayed at every entrance to a CTA and at every penalty fares station so that at least one notice can be easily seen by anyone joining a penalty fares train (rule 4 of the Penalty Fares Rules). The best way to do this is to place a warning notice at every entrance to the station platforms. The notices must be prominent, easy to read, and easy to distinguish from other notices and the general surroundings. The notices must give the name of the operator, the circumstances in which a penalty fare may be charged and the amount of a penalty fare. To make sure that warning notices are consistent between different operators, they must be in line with a code of practice approved by the SRA. The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) has produced a code of practice which we have approved for this purpose

4.22 The warning notices must be in place when the scheme is introduced, and must stay in place for as long as the scheme continues. If the notices at a particular station are covered up, damaged or removed for any reason, passengers who join a train at that station cannot be charged a penalty fare (rule 7). For this reason, the notices must be checked regularly and operators should include a check in their routine station audits.

4.23 As well as the fixed notices required by the rules, penalty fares warnings should be shown in the departure information for each penalty fares train shown on customer information screens and indicator boards at stations. For example, 'Please buy your ticket before boarding as penalty fares apply to this train'. This is especially important at larger stations, where penalty fares apply to certain trains but not others.

4.24 Another best practice is to display warning notices on trains, although this may not be possible if rolling stock is also used on routes where penalty fares do not apply.
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At Sheffield, EMT do not comply with the bits I have highlighted

 

[WestCoast]

There is no excuse really for not putting up posters, South West Trains even have automated announcements on their trains..

 

[MikeWh]

4.23 As well as the fixed notices required by the rules, penalty fares warnings should be shown in the departure information for each penalty fares train shown on customer information screens and indicator boards at stations. For example, 'Please buy your ticket before boarding as penalty fares apply to this train'. This is especially important at larger stations, where penalty fares apply to certain trains but not others.

Is this a requirement where all trains from a station are operated by the same TOC and are thus all penalty fare trains?

 

[jon0844]

Hatfield can't comply either when the main building is closed. There is no poster by the side gate and no warnings on the CIS.

There is a poster near the bike shed, on a wall full of a combination of timetables and ads. It is not obvious at all.

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[island]

Is this a requirement where all trains from a station are operated by the same TOC and are thus all penalty fare trains?

Yes it is. And "All trains from a station are operated by the same TOC" does not imply "all trains from that station are penalty fares trains"

 

[button_boxer]

penalty fares warnings should be shown in the departure information for each penalty fares train shown on customer information screens and indicator boards at stations

That's a "should", not a "must"...

 

[MikeWh]

Yes it is. And "All trains from a station are operated by the same TOC" does not imply "all trains from that station are penalty fares trains"

I realise that, but what I was asking was if all trains are penalty fare trains and operated by the same TOC, do they have to add a warning to customer information screens?

 

[island]

That is a good question. I am aware that SET does not do this.

 

[bb21]

Yes it is. And "All trains from a station are operated by the same TOC" does not imply "all trains from that station are penalty fares trains"

How is the average passenger going to know in that case which ones are penalty fare trains? I'm not sure even many on here would know without asking a member of staff.

 

[island]

How is the average passenger going to know in that case which ones are penalty fare trains? I'm not sure even many on here would know without asking a member of staff.

Damned if I know. But penalty fares or not, you're still meant to buy before boarding if you can.

 

[bb21]

Damned if I know. But penalty fares or not, you're still meant to buy before boarding if you can.

... which I agree.

However how is someone who, for example "inadvertently" over-rides, is going to know whether he'll be PF'ed when he comes off a train and is gripped at the gateline?

Come to think about it, it could be a quite good deterrent to fare-evaders. "You can chance it but you might end up on an expensive PF train however we are not going to tell you which ones they are."

 

[island]

Well, that's not really different to a situation where all trains are PF trains but you probably won't get gripped on the train and if your destination station is barriered, the gateline staff might be clueless...

 

[moonrakerz]

If you read the DfT "rules" on PF stations and how they should actually be "advertised", you will see that many/most stations fall well short of what is required.

On a large station near me (4 operating platforms) there are two notices. Most passengers entering the platforms would see neither !

Just to confuse things even further, there are two TOCs operating from this station, one of which doesn't operate a PF system from here anyway.

AND - "the icing on the cake" - when I spoke to DfT about this station they informed me that it actually wasn't a PF zone !