Strikes - Who's driving and staffing?

[dk1]

12 to be precise. The majority were main line.

I could only see a single through service from Leeds to Kings X & vice versa.

 

[Bald Rick]

I could only see a single through service from Leeds to Kings X & vice versa.

For Leeds, yes. but on the main line there were many more services, running London - York / Newcastle / Edinburgh.

 

[dk1]

For Leeds, yes. but on the main line there were many more services, running London - York / Newcastle / Edinburgh.

Oh yes I saw those.

 

[JackTheLad]

I noticed on Saturday on the quarter hourly Sevenoaks/Orpington to London Bridge Shuttles which was the only limited route operating on Southeastern that every train I saw had 2 people in the cab. I also noticed for some reason none of the PIS & destionaton screens were active on any of the trains either. Do driver managers not know how to work them? Interestingly too all the 465s operating were in a 12 car formation instead of the usual 4/8/10 which in combination with a 15 minute service on a strike day surprised me. I can't remember the last time SE ever ran a 12 car Networker outside the peak, I don't even think 12 car Networkers have been in any diagrams since before CoVid but could be wrong?

 

[Bald Rick]

I noticed on Saturday on the quarter hourly Sevenoaks/Orpington to London Bridge Shuttles which was the only limited route operating on Southeastern that every train I saw had 2 people in the cab. I also noticed for some reason none of the PIS & destionaton screens were active on any of the trains either. Do driver managers not know how to work them? Interestingly too all the 465s operating were in a 12 car formation instead of the usual 4/8/10 which in combination with a 15 minute service on a strike day surprised me. I can't remember the last time SE ever ran a 12 car Networker outside the peak, I don't even think 12 car Networkers have been in any diagrams since before CoVid but could be wrong?

Saturday was not an ASLEF strike, they would have been regular drivers.

 

[43066]

I noticed on Saturday on the quarter hourly Sevenoaks/Orpington to London Bridge Shuttles which was the only limited route operating on Southeastern that every train I saw had 2 people in the cab. I also noticed for some reason none of the PIS & destionaton screens were active on any of the trains either. Do driver managers not know how to work them? Interestingly too all the 465s operating were in a 12 car formation instead of the usual 4/8/10 which in combination with a 15 minute service on a strike day surprised me. I can't remember the last time SE ever ran a 12 car Networker outside the peak, I don't even think 12 car Networkers have been in any diagrams since before CoVid but could be wrong?

I noticed the two drivers per cab on services I used. Possibly due to trains being doubled manned due to short turnarounds, so drivers choosing to travel with colleagues, and/or DIs with trainees.

The PIS displays not working likely to have been down to no codes due to terminating at LBG.

 

[800301]

I noticed on Saturday on the quarter hourly Sevenoaks/Orpington to London Bridge Shuttles which was the only limited route operating on Southeastern that every train I saw had 2 people in the cab. I also noticed for some reason none of the PIS & destionaton screens were active on any of the trains either. Do driver managers not know how to work them? Interestingly too all the 465s operating were in a 12 car formation instead of the usual 4/8/10 which in combination with a 15 minute service on a strike day surprised me. I can't remember the last time SE ever ran a 12 car Networker outside the peak, I don't even think 12 car Networkers have been in any diagrams since before CoVid but could be wrong?

I know a few trainees were doing front end turns (basically observing a driver) strike week, while there was limited services running, you could still see how it was operated and I’m sure it beats doing a lesson over Zoom.

 

[Rich1974]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there's recently been a change to rules regarding approach speeds to Red Signals, we now have to go no higher than 10mph over the magnets on approach.....it can be painful at certain locations where the magnet is a greater distance than most, in some cases requiring us to take power which isn't ideal.

 

[dk1]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there's recently been a change to rules regarding approach speeds to Red Signals, we now have to go no higher than 10mph over the magnets on approach.....it can be painful at certain locations where the magnet is a greater distance than most, in some cases requiring us to take power which isn't ideal.

But that was only during leaf fall. Should all be back to the 20/20 rule now.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but there's recently been a change to rules regarding approach speeds to Red Signals, we now have to go no higher than 10mph over the magnets on approach.....it can be painful at certain locations where the magnet is a greater distance than most, in some cases requiring us to take power which isn't ideal.

Which company has instituted these rules?

It’s things like this that destroy performance.

 

[whoosh]

Which company has instituted these rules?

Somewhere with a 'ladder climber' who's working really hard in that office!

 

[Haywain]

Which company has instituted these rules?

It’s things like this that destroy performance.

Sliding past a signal due to wet leaves doesn't do much for performance either. During the leaf fall season precautionary driving is quite normal.

 

[Bald Rick]

Sliding past a signal due to wet leaves doesn't do much for performance either. During the leaf fall season precautionary driving is quite normal.

I quite agree. But it is situation and location specific, and doesn’t need a 10mph ‘restriction‘ at every red signal.

 

[43066]

Which company has instituted these rules?

It’s things like this that destroy performance.

I’d also be interested to know that. A freight operator, possibly? That seems ludicrously restrictive otherwise.

 

[66701GBRF]

I’d also be interested to know that. A freight operator, possibly? That seems ludicrously restrictive otherwise.

10mph at the magnet has been part of our policy for as long as I can remember. And you will be pulled up on it if they do a download and see you are above 10mph.

 

[LowLevel]

On a heavy freight train 10mph at the magnet seems sensible, perhaps, though I've always heard 20 quoted before on passenger trains.

It is however true that defensive driving policies and sectional running times often seem to clash, particularly when someone decides to make the former more restrictive without giving consideration to altering the latter.

 

[Horizon22]

Nobody said anything was the same.

Well you previously said:

Are there such things?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

It's splitting hairs though. Also ultimately, a person's union membership is a private matter although of course reps may well know.

There's certainly more contingency guards and dispatchers about than there are drivers, for obvious reasons which is why more services can run. Many TOCs have run a contingency training operation for many years for the exact purpose of potential industrial action.

 

[dctraindriver]

Which company has instituted these rules?

It’s things like this that destroy performance.

Mine for a start, 10/20 during leaf fall. 15/20 rest of the year.

 

[43066]

10mph at the magnet has been part of our policy for as long as I can remember. And you will be pulled up on it if they do a download and see you are above 10mph.

Given what you will be driving based on your username, that makes sense. Less so for unit jockeys, though!

 

[12LDA28C]

I quite agree. But it is situation and location specific, and doesn’t need a 10mph ‘restriction‘ at every red signal.

More than one TOC has a blanket policy during leaf-fall season of 10mph maximum at the AWS magnet for a red signal during low adhesion, which seems sensible enough.

Now that we are out of RHTT season, TOCs still often have rules in place regarding maximum speeds over AWS magnets for red signals, in line with Professional Driving Policies.

 

[Bald Rick]

Mine for a start, 10/20 during leaf fall. 15/20 rest of the year.

Which is yours?

 

[dctraindriver]

Which is yours?

SWR

 

[12LDA28C]

Are there such things?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2023 ==

Some (admittedly very few indeed) drivers I know are RMT and some are in no union at all, having left ASLEF. Whether or not those drivers would cross a picket line is another matter. I don't believe that a TOC would necessarily know who is or isn't in a particular union and be able (and willing) to roster a non-unionised driver to work trains on an ASLEF strike day, for example. That would seem to be a rather foolish approach even though it would appear to be possible, on paper.

 

[Haywain]

Some (admittedly very few indeed) drivers I know are RMT and some are in no union at all, having left ASLEF. Whether or not those drivers would cross a picket line is another matter. I don't believe that a TOC would necessarily know who is or isn't in a particular union and be able (and willing) to roster a non-unionised driver to work trains on an ASLEF strike day, for example. That would seem to be a rather foolish approach even though it would appear to be possible, on paper.

A driver who is not a member of a striking union and who refuses to cross a picket line would render themselves liable to action under attendance procedures, as well as losing the day's pay.

 

[12LDA28C]

A driver who is not a member of a striking union and who refuses to cross a picket line would render themselves liable to action under attendance procedures, as well as losing the day's pay.

Indeed. But if they crossed the picket line and booked on for duty, the chances are that the TOC has cancelled all trains anyway so they would just get paid for sitting spare and doing nothing - the passengers would still get no service.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed. But if they crossed the picket line and booked on for duty, the chances are that the TOC has cancelled all trains anyway so they would just get paid for sitting spare and doing nothing - the passengers would still get no service.

Absolutely, their shift hours may well be incompatible with the service the TOC can run, and agreements (with unions, ironically) may prevent the shift hours being altered. Of course, some may choose to be more flexible than required but that would be entirely a personal choice.

 

[ComUtoR]

It’s things like this that destroy performance.

I also quite agree. Getting those pesky red signals certainly cause delays.

 

[43066]

I also quite agree. Getting those pesky red signals certainly cause delays.

I’m sure we all understand the need to drive defensively but, for modern passenger trains, 10mph at every magnet is too slow, especially on higher speed lines where the magnet is often a long way back. For one thing, if you’re up an upslope, you’re likely to have to take power to get close enough to the signal to read the plate which then increases risk.

By increasing the time it takes to reach the appropriate stopping point you also start to increase the risk of the driver getting distracted and spadding at low speed.

 

[JamesT]

A driver who is not a member of a striking union and who refuses to cross a picket line would render themselves liable to action under attendance procedures, as well as losing the day's pay.

I was under the impression that refusing to cross a picket line makes you part of the industrial action even if you're not a member of the union. Therefore they would receive the same protection from disciplinary action as those on strike. (And obviously wouldn't be paid just like other people on strike)

 

[Facing Back]

A driver who is not a member of a striking union and who refuses to cross a picket line would render themselves liable to action under attendance procedures, as well as losing the day's pay.

I'm quite sure that isn't true. Firstly the employer doesn't (officially) know who is in the union, and secondly if there industrial action and you refuse to cross a picket line, you are simply deemed to taking part in it. As such you are have the normal protections against disciplinary action.