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Leaving car in gear yes or no?
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I was always told you should never leave the cat in gear just handbrake as it puts a strain on the transmission & clutch which could be the opposite of that from driving.
If on a slope aim to park close to the curb then turn the wheels so if the car did move it should not be much. If no curb set the whells so it rolls off the road.
I have never had a car with a poor handbrake.
Back to mid 1980's and cold I recall dad finding handbrake frozen on, suspicion was cable rather than drum/shoes, so had to leave running until thawed by heat from exhaust. After then left off and car in gear when very cold. At home the parking was level.
My current car will only start with the clutch pedal pressed. Stop-start can fail to restart if the clutch pedal is not pressed quite far enough ... turn key right back, start and go in reality only a couple of seconds but seems longer.
My first car did not easily go into 1st gear too often hence the habit of putting into first just before coming to a stop. Once I started this habit started it has been hard to break unless a long wait.
If on a slope aim to park close to the curb then turn the wheels so if the car did move it should not be much. If no curb set the whells so it rolls off the road.
I have never had a car with a poor handbrake.
Back to mid 1980's and cold I recall dad finding handbrake frozen on, suspicion was cable rather than drum/shoes, so had to leave running until thawed by heat from exhaust. After then left off and car in gear when very cold. At home the parking was level.
My current car will only start with the clutch pedal pressed. Stop-start can fail to restart if the clutch pedal is not pressed quite far enough ... turn key right back, start and go in reality only a couple of seconds but seems longer.
My first car did not easily go into 1st gear too often hence the habit of putting into first just before coming to a stop. Once I started this habit started it has been hard to break unless a long wait.
adamskiodp
Member
Our current car won’t move in neutral. I only discovered it when on holiday and our rental property had a steep slope on the driveway. As it was a very quiet cul de sac in a quiet village, I let the handbrake off expecting to gently roll down the drive and reverse onto the road. The car wouldn’t move (backwards at least)until, I had turned the engine on and put it into reverse.
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gabrielhj07
Established Member
That's a funny sounding neutral.
PG
Established Member
Sounds more like an electric handbrake that won't release without the engine running?
adamskiodp
Member
It may just be a fancy sensor that knows when the car is on an incline as opposed to the flat. What I should check is whether it moves if you just put it into reverse with the engine off.
Like a lot of ‘improvements’, they often have unintended consequences.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Doesn’t explain how you would push start the car or tow it with the engine off?
I'm puzzled as to What strain is put on the transmission and clutch by leaving a parked car in gear.
Probably nothing too much if the car doesn’t move. If it does creep slightly though then you’ve got the various gear wheels in the gearbox (and other metallic complicated bits) holding and pushing against the weight of car as it tries to move which means metal pushing against metal. It probably wouldn’t cause a problem in reality but there is a chance that it might do I suppose.
In all honesty gearboxes are something that rarely go wrong these days, but it wasn’t that long ago that they were a bit more fragile.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It doesn't. What it can do is damage them if someone crashes into you when parked in gear, which is one reason not to do it. Personally I think the low risk of that is outweighed by it making it less likely my car will roll away and hit someone else's.
I’ve just read this whole thread, initially I started off intrigued which quickly gave way to morbid fascination, and ended with mild horror. Many people clearly talking a load of old cobblers, and possibly in need of some refresher training.
I genuinely can’t believe some of the things that’ve been posted - the suggestions made by some that systems like auto-stop are terrible, and the number of posters who admit to not using handbrake and prefer to ride their clutch at traffic lights. All utter, utter madness. Sadly it’s only a small minority of posters who I would trust to drive alongside, although I see people using the techniques described above daily, and it genuinely concerns me that so few people bother to take an interest in their driving, prolonging the life of the car or being considerate to others, and ignoring the guidance given in documents like the Highway Code.
And while I’m inadvertently choosing violence by insulting as many earlier posters as possible in this reply (
), I might as well also question the poster who suggested if a car is parked in a car park on ice, it could slide a few feet forwards if not left in gear…shurely the friction (or lack of) on an icy surface is between the rubber and the tarmac, so leaving the car in gear would have absolutely zero impact - it’s not like the wheels are rolling!! And to the poster suggesting not leaving a car in gear might invalidate warranty and insurance, thank you for proving you don’t read your insurance documents. I also have a bridge to sell you…
Given that posters on this forum are often the type of people who like to understand a given topic in lots of detail, and will often spend hours arguing the facts no matter how obscure (look at how many rivet-counting posts there are!), I genuinely expected to read a greater number of more enlightened replies, possibly with a sprinkling of ROSPA / IAM etc members posting and sharing their insight so we can all get some more perspective. I don’t think anyone else mentioned the Highway Code before me…for shame!!!
For what it’s worth (and to make sure I stay on topic!) - when parking I use my handbrake, and don’t leave in gear unless the situation requires it - eg on a steep hill. If on a hill I might also take other precautions as necessary, such as pointing front wheels towards the kerb (ie near side if parked with traffic) and / or using gears. I don’t think anyone else has mentioned using chocks either (for when parking off road, eg on a steep drive). I maintain my brakes and handbrake in good order, and I am confident to rely on them - I live in one of the more hilly parts of the U.K., so proper functioning is even more critical.
At traffic lights, the only answer is it should be *situationally dependant* - I.e. if first in line, pre-selecting gear and making early pre-start checks (especially when city driving) can be sensible whereas if further back in a queue, handbrake on and out of gear - in that order. Very few posters mentioned the dazzling effect of people sitting on brake lights when in stationary traffic - which is expressly mentioned in the Highway Code.
Another point worth making is that by using the handbrake, a driver can use their brake lights while stationary to give additional information / a warning to approaching road users. How often have you been stopped in a queue and seen someone approaching too quickly / not paying attention? Being able to give a couple of quick “flashes” by applying the brakes has certainly helped me to avoid over a dozen potential rear-end collisions over the last 5 years. Perhaps another situation where remaining with a foot on the brakes (with handbrake on) is if you’re at the back of a queue and traffic approaches you from a bend, where they might have less time to react - I will often show my brake light continually until another car arrives behind me, to help them see on their approach that traffic is stationary.
One other quick point. Several people have highlighted that handbrake and / nor gear when stationary could be of benefit / or not if rear ended in stationary traffic. I’ve unfortunately been rear ended in both situations, and can report that even with handbrake on, I was pushed a good 6’ forwards by the impact at about 20-30 mph. But on neither occasion did I hit the vehicle in front, as I’d left enough room in front of me. This is often referred to as being able to see “tyres and tarmac”, and not only provides space at the front in case of being shunted forwards, but also gives some protection in case the car in front rolls backwards, or if you need to manoeuvre (eg to make space for an emergency vehicle, or if the vehicle in front breaks down).
Of course, all of my comments and critiques are meant in a friendly way. If anyone feels hurt or insulted I apologise in advance - but I would also suggest some open minded and honest reflection might be helpful. Nobody is perfect…but a well known phenomenon with car drivers is that almost all will self-assess their abilities as “above average”. This is explained by the Dunning-Kruger effect (lots of info available by google) and I strongly recommend reading if you’re interested in human factors.
As a final thought (and not to be too much of an arsonist on this thread, honest!) this is a rail forum, and so it’s likely that many posters will be used to having regular routine assessments of their driving / workplace activities to make sure training is followed, standards are being maintained, good techniques used and all accomplished in a safe and efficient manner. Perhaps all road users should have some form of mandatory assessment too - imagine the rapid impact on road safety…
I genuinely can’t believe some of the things that’ve been posted - the suggestions made by some that systems like auto-stop are terrible, and the number of posters who admit to not using handbrake and prefer to ride their clutch at traffic lights. All utter, utter madness. Sadly it’s only a small minority of posters who I would trust to drive alongside, although I see people using the techniques described above daily, and it genuinely concerns me that so few people bother to take an interest in their driving, prolonging the life of the car or being considerate to others, and ignoring the guidance given in documents like the Highway Code.
And while I’m inadvertently choosing violence by insulting as many earlier posters as possible in this reply (
), I might as well also question the poster who suggested if a car is parked in a car park on ice, it could slide a few feet forwards if not left in gear…shurely the friction (or lack of) on an icy surface is between the rubber and the tarmac, so leaving the car in gear would have absolutely zero impact - it’s not like the wheels are rolling!! And to the poster suggesting not leaving a car in gear might invalidate warranty and insurance, thank you for proving you don’t read your insurance documents. I also have a bridge to sell you…Given that posters on this forum are often the type of people who like to understand a given topic in lots of detail, and will often spend hours arguing the facts no matter how obscure (look at how many rivet-counting posts there are!), I genuinely expected to read a greater number of more enlightened replies, possibly with a sprinkling of ROSPA / IAM etc members posting and sharing their insight so we can all get some more perspective. I don’t think anyone else mentioned the Highway Code before me…for shame!!!
For what it’s worth (and to make sure I stay on topic!) - when parking I use my handbrake, and don’t leave in gear unless the situation requires it - eg on a steep hill. If on a hill I might also take other precautions as necessary, such as pointing front wheels towards the kerb (ie near side if parked with traffic) and / or using gears. I don’t think anyone else has mentioned using chocks either (for when parking off road, eg on a steep drive). I maintain my brakes and handbrake in good order, and I am confident to rely on them - I live in one of the more hilly parts of the U.K., so proper functioning is even more critical.
At traffic lights, the only answer is it should be *situationally dependant* - I.e. if first in line, pre-selecting gear and making early pre-start checks (especially when city driving) can be sensible whereas if further back in a queue, handbrake on and out of gear - in that order. Very few posters mentioned the dazzling effect of people sitting on brake lights when in stationary traffic - which is expressly mentioned in the Highway Code.
Another point worth making is that by using the handbrake, a driver can use their brake lights while stationary to give additional information / a warning to approaching road users. How often have you been stopped in a queue and seen someone approaching too quickly / not paying attention? Being able to give a couple of quick “flashes” by applying the brakes has certainly helped me to avoid over a dozen potential rear-end collisions over the last 5 years. Perhaps another situation where remaining with a foot on the brakes (with handbrake on) is if you’re at the back of a queue and traffic approaches you from a bend, where they might have less time to react - I will often show my brake light continually until another car arrives behind me, to help them see on their approach that traffic is stationary.
One other quick point. Several people have highlighted that handbrake and / nor gear when stationary could be of benefit / or not if rear ended in stationary traffic. I’ve unfortunately been rear ended in both situations, and can report that even with handbrake on, I was pushed a good 6’ forwards by the impact at about 20-30 mph. But on neither occasion did I hit the vehicle in front, as I’d left enough room in front of me. This is often referred to as being able to see “tyres and tarmac”, and not only provides space at the front in case of being shunted forwards, but also gives some protection in case the car in front rolls backwards, or if you need to manoeuvre (eg to make space for an emergency vehicle, or if the vehicle in front breaks down).
Of course, all of my comments and critiques are meant in a friendly way. If anyone feels hurt or insulted I apologise in advance - but I would also suggest some open minded and honest reflection might be helpful. Nobody is perfect…but a well known phenomenon with car drivers is that almost all will self-assess their abilities as “above average”. This is explained by the Dunning-Kruger effect (lots of info available by google) and I strongly recommend reading if you’re interested in human factors.
As a final thought (and not to be too much of an arsonist on this thread, honest!) this is a rail forum, and so it’s likely that many posters will be used to having regular routine assessments of their driving / workplace activities to make sure training is followed, standards are being maintained, good techniques used and all accomplished in a safe and efficient manner. Perhaps all road users should have some form of mandatory assessment too - imagine the rapid impact on road safety…
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DelW
Established Member
- Joined
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I think the logic of that was that leaving a front-wheel drive car in gear would additionally stop the front wheels from rolling freely - in a RWD car it would make no difference.And while I’m inadvertently choosing violence by insulting as many earlier posters as possible in this reply (
Maybe one issue is the increasing use of electronic parking brakes. When I drove manual cars with mechanical handbrakes, I always used neutral and handbrake at traffic lights, and couldn't understand why so many cars around me had brake lights on. However, now driving an automatic with electronic parking brake, sadly I've joined the footbrake brigade, as that leaves me ready to move immediately. The EPB will only release with footbrake on and in park*, which makes the move-off sequence too slow if at the front of the queue with someone impatient behind (i.e. usually!).
*At least I think that's the case, maybe I ought to try it out somewhere quiet to see if that's actually correct.
As often happens on this forum, two things are being mixed up here: leaving a car in gear when parked and the use of the handbrake v footbrake at lights.
In relation to the former
On this the highway code is clear (rule 252) that you should leave a car in gear on a hill. It is silent on whether you should do so on a level surface, but I can see no reason not to do so on a level surface.
In relation to the former
On this the highway code is clear (rule 252) that you should leave a car in gear on a hill. It is silent on whether you should do so on a level surface, but I can see no reason not to do so on a level surface.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Cars can roll on even the slightest hill.
Hence the final part of my comment
birchesgreen
Established Member
Yes i was agreeing with you
Eyersey468
Established Member
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At lights I leave it in neutral however when parked I generally put it in 1st gear unless its facing downhill in which case reverse
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Wasn't there a problem with Citroen BX and/or Xantia handbrake where if they weren't applied properly the car would roll away once it cooled down?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Wasn't there a problem with Citroen BX and/or Xantia handbrake where if they weren't applied properly the car would roll away once it cooled down?
GusB
Established Member
My car won't start without the clutch pedal being depressed. It resulted in some initial head scratching and then a few choice words the first time I ever drove it!Same here except that it wasn't your Gran
Press brake pedal, depress clutch, shake gear lever to check it is in neutral before activating the starter and releasing the clutch. Isn't everyone taught that?
Was watching a video from HubNut about his 2CV where the handbrake does not act directly on the wheels so there is always some movement when you take the foot brake off, disconcerting but then again I believe my step-mum's 3008 or Juke ended up also doing something similar.
I was told this 40 if not more years ago and by someone then older so could easily go back to 1950 if not pre 1939.
If on a significant slope rather than nominally level then I always aim the wheels so the car would roll off road and leave in gear. Otherwise just handbrake and wheels straight(ish). While parking I try not to turn steering when stationary rather than slowly moving.
Mine come up on the dash but the annoyance is having to turn the key back again then through ignition to start. The 'choice words' come when stop / start fails if the clutch pedal is not down far enough when dash come up with 'Start the engine manually' including of course again turning the key right back. The same if it stalls which I did a few times when 'new to me' as back to petrol from diesel and less inertia in the flywheel.
When facing uphill yes I'll put in first gear and also turn the steering wheel away from the kerb, when parked facing downhill I'll put it in reverse and turn the wheels towards the kerb. Never owned an automatic but then I'd make sure the steering wheel is turned accordingly to how I've parked.
antharro
Member
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- 20 Dec 2006
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- 712
Parking:
Manual: wheels towards kerb, hand brake on, steering lock engaged, in gear if I remember.
Auto: wheels towards kerb, hand brake on, steering lock engaged, in Park.
At traffic lights:
Manual: gear stick in whatever gear I want to pull away in, clutch on floor, hand brake on... unless it's a LONG wait, in which case neutral + hand brake.
Auto: neutral + hand brake.
Drivers of certain modern cars should be made to stand behind their car in the dark and see just how blindingly bright their brake lights are. Then they'd be less inclined to just sit on them at traffic lights.
Manual: wheels towards kerb, hand brake on, steering lock engaged, in gear if I remember.
Auto: wheels towards kerb, hand brake on, steering lock engaged, in Park.
At traffic lights:
Manual: gear stick in whatever gear I want to pull away in, clutch on floor, hand brake on... unless it's a LONG wait, in which case neutral + hand brake.
Auto: neutral + hand brake.
Drivers of certain modern cars should be made to stand behind their car in the dark and see just how blindingly bright their brake lights are. Then they'd be less inclined to just sit on them at traffic lights.
class68fan
Member
Riding the crutch is madness. The peddle should be either fully up or down except when getting biting point on pulling away.
Rhinojerry
Member
My VW Up handbook advise first gear for flat ground and uphill,reverse for downhill.
Also turning wheels to kerb on downhill and turn wheels to centre of road when facing uphill.
Also turning wheels to kerb on downhill and turn wheels to centre of road when facing uphill.
PeterY
Established Member
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- 1,363
I drive, by modern standards, an old car. I was always taught back in the 70's to always leave a car in gear and handbrake on when parked. I still do this, old habits die hard. If I'm not using my car, I park it in a council garage. It's flat. I leave the car in gear and handbrake off.
If leaving your car for a while, best to leave the handbrake off. You dont want it binding the brakes while you are gone.
.... and a step further put on axle stands to keep the weight off one point of the tyres.
I wonder if discs and pads bind like shoes and drums ?
They can start to seize up definitely.
mine do if it’s left for more than a few days and I last drove in the wet.
... Unlike stuck drums and shoes you can't go around tapping discs with a mallet or soft faced hammer.
When I've washed my car plus if I remember when very wet weather or snow I only put the handbrake on lightly. This is in a level garage. Instead if I thought I could leave the handbrake off but instead leave in gear. As the clutch pedal has to be depressed to start no risk of shooting backward or forward.
315801
Member
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I do when parked on hills, I leave it in reverse if facing down but leave it in 1st if facing up the hill.
My dad suggested it several years ago because a chap he knew had a C reg Montego estate. The owner of the vehicle lived in a cul-de-sac that was on a hill, the handbrake came off and the car rolled down the road and hit another vehicle.
The funny thing about it was that the car the Montego hit had been condemned at its last MOT and the owner was greatful to my dad's mate for what the Montego had done. It was also fortunate because the owner of the condemned vehicle did not file an insurance claim against the owner of the Montego.
When the owner of the Montego got the handbrake fixed, the chap who did the job gave the tip regarding parking on hills that I mentioned at the top of this post, ever since then I now do that myself as it ensures that the car will stay in place even if the handbrake fails.
I should also point out that I DO NOT advise trying this with auto gearbox vehicles.
My dad suggested it several years ago because a chap he knew had a C reg Montego estate. The owner of the vehicle lived in a cul-de-sac that was on a hill, the handbrake came off and the car rolled down the road and hit another vehicle.
The funny thing about it was that the car the Montego hit had been condemned at its last MOT and the owner was greatful to my dad's mate for what the Montego had done. It was also fortunate because the owner of the condemned vehicle did not file an insurance claim against the owner of the Montego.
When the owner of the Montego got the handbrake fixed, the chap who did the job gave the tip regarding parking on hills that I mentioned at the top of this post, ever since then I now do that myself as it ensures that the car will stay in place even if the handbrake fails.
I should also point out that I DO NOT advise trying this with auto gearbox vehicles.
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