What is your opinion on the USA?

[nw1]

Yep. A friend who is in US tech pretty much says the same. In fact it got so extreme that you were almost frowned upon if you didn't turn up for work at 630am and do an hour or so in the on site gym before you sat at your desk.

6.30am? Around 2.5 hours before what is typical over here!

And doubtless they have to stay until around 8pm in the evening too. People must go absolutely crazy with hours like that.

 

[GS250]

That's the thing. Unless your job is truly amazing, it makes you wonder what the point of living is..

Hear hear!

Something of which has become apparent across the workforce in general I'd say.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

6.30am? Around 2.5 hours before what is typical over here!

And doubtless they have to stay until around 8pm in the evening too. People must go absolutely crazy with hours like that.

That's no exaggeration either. Most fairly senior roles are 8-6pm. As you pointed out...with the cultural expectation that you stay later too.

 

[nw1]

That's no exaggeration either. Most fairly senior roles are 8-6pm. As you pointed out...with the cultural expectation that you stay later too.

Potentially dangerous in the IT industry too, I'd say. You're more likely to make mistakes (which could have potentially severe security consequences) if you're working flat out like that as you're going to be very tired.

It appears from this thread that the USA is for visiting, not for living.

 

[GS250]

Potentially dangerous in the IT industry too, I'd say. You're more likely to make mistakes (which could have potentially severe security consequences) if you're working flat out like that as you're going to be very tired.

It appears from this thread that the USA is for visiting, not for living.

In my present role I'd be earning around double in the USA (although I'd do well to get a mid ranking job like this without a degree) However factor in longer hours, less leave, costs of healthcare, education if you have kids and that extra pay soon turns out to be less attractive.

Yet some who have moved there to live absolutely would never return to the UK.

 

[Strathclyder]

It's unusual to get a manual hire car in the US. I've driven half a dozen, from small hatchbacks to a full size SUV and a Mustang 5.0 V8, and all came as automatics without having been requested as such.

Looking back on it, the first one was indeed a manual (unless it's a false memory and it was driving a LHD car generally that threw my dad for a loop at first) as I think that's all that was available when we arrived at the airport, unusual as it was. The other 2 were certainly autos, which was preferred for the amount of driving and the distances that would be covered (was about 3 hours from Orlando Sanford airport to our villa in Tampa). All 3 were Chrysler MPVs (minivans over there), all being Grand Caravans IIRC.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yep. A friend who is in US tech pretty much says the same. In fact it got so extreme that you were almost frowned upon if you didn't turn up for work at 630am and do an hour or so in the on site gym before you sat at your desk.

Not to mention the compulsory after-work drinks and dinners.

 

[birchesgreen]

Makes me wonder how Americans find the time to watch so much TV.

 

[Bald Rick]

One thing not mentioned so far:

For a country with such car dependency, the standard of driving is appalling!

 

[nlogax]

For a country with such car dependency, the standard of driving is appalling!

Hardly surprising when you have wide lanes, a penchant for autoboxes and when barely half of US states even have a requirement for actual driving lessons.

 

[Simon11]

Not yet mentioned is the personal health and well being!!

I gained so much weight when living in America. Every meal out has huge portions and never ever had room for desert. With such a car focused country, hardly any opportunities to burn it off like you would with a commute in the UK.

How anyone keeps fit there is beyond me!

 

[GS250]

Not yet mentioned is the personal health and well being!!

I gained so much weight when living in America. Every meal out has huge portions and never ever had room for desert. With such a car focused country, hardly any opportunities to burn it off like you would with a commute in the UK.

How anyone keeps fit there is beyond me!

Body types are very varied in the USA. People are either athlete build...or without sounding uncouth...fairly obese. Not so many who are that medium, reasonably fit due to walking, cycling etc type profile.

 

[duncanp]

That's no exaggeration either. Most fairly senior roles are 8-6pm. As you pointed out...with the cultural expectation that you stay later too.

Which causes problems when American managers come over to the UK to work.

They expect you to work lots of overtime for nothing, and question your "..loyalty to the company.." if you want to go home at 5pm and don't want to work weekends.

 

[GS250]

Not to mention the compulsory after-work drinks and dinners.

My friend who is an Aerospace Engineer always felt obliged to attend these. It happens all over the world and its usually considered 'networking'. However quite often these events carried a very work heavy theme with deals more or less brokered over a gourmet surf n turf. Quite often he didn't get home until gone 10pm and was straight to bed usually.

 

[jfollows]

Which causes problems when American managers come over to the UK to work.

They expect you to work lots of overtime for nothing, and question your "..loyalty to the company.." if you want to go home at 5pm and don't want to work weekends.

I once received an invitation from someone "important" in IBM in the USA to attend a weekly conference call, I had to decline and sent a message along the lines of "my commitment to working at IBM does not extend to attending a weekly call at 7pm on a Tuesday" or similar. Probably career-limiting but by that point I didn't care any more.

 

[duncanp]

I once received an invitation from someone "important" in IBM in the USA to attend a weekly conference call, I had to decline and sent a message along the lines of "my commitment to working at IBM does not extend to attending a weekly call at 7pm on a Tuesday" or similar. Probably career-limiting but by that point I didn't care any more.

Part of the problem there is the time difference.

7pm in the UK is 2pm in New York, 1pm in Chicago and mid morning on the West Coast of the US.

Therefore it is in the middle of the working day for Americans, and they don't see anything wrong in holding a conference call at that time.

You should have replied saying I can't make 7pm on Tuesday, but what about 9:30am (UK time) on Wednesday, when it would be 4:30am in New York.

Then see how "loyal to the company" they are.

When I worked in IT, we had similar problems when work was outsourced to India, who were about 5 hours ahead of the UK.

It meant that you couldn't contact the developers of the program you were testing after about 1pm UK time, which was very annoying for me, but kep all the bean counters happy.

 

[nw1]

Which causes problems when American managers come over to the UK to work.

They expect you to work lots of overtime for nothing, and question your "..loyalty to the company.." if you want to go home at 5pm and don't want to work weekends.

Well, many companies never show you loyalty when they downsize or merge, so it's perhaps a bit unreasonable them demanding excessive loyalty from you in this way....

One rule for one, one for another of course - just like politicians.

 

[Cloud Strife]

My friend who is an Aerospace Engineer always felt obliged to attend these. It happens all over the world and its usually considered 'networking'. However quite often these events carried a very work heavy theme with deals more or less brokered over a gourmet surf n turf. Quite often he didn't get home until gone 10pm and was straight to bed usually.

I think this is the problem: it's one thing brokering deals and other arrangements over a decent meal at the company expense, but it's a different story when you're a junior employee expected to go out and socialise with people from work on your dime and pretend to be enjoying yourself.

Pre-Covid, I was travelling all over Europe trying to put together some deals. It was quite normal and routine to be invited out for dinner, and discussions could go on until 10-11pm at night, meaning that I'd frequently have the first meeting at 9am and I wouldn't get into bed until midnight. But that was no big deal: I wasn't paying for any of it, and the nature of the job meant that I was free to work as I wanted when I was in the office.

I still remember one evening meeting that went on until midnight, where the guy in question had invited us to his house. Not only did he have a personal chef, but he also had an incredible wine collection and he liked to drink it.

 

[Bald Rick]

but he also had an incredible wine collection and he liked to drink it.

hope he liked to share it too!

 

[Neptune]

I’m going to go and take this back to the OP and break it down. I will declare that I have visited most states over the last 30 years or so. I also notice that the OP pressed the button with this posting and hasn’t returned to comment on the subsequent 5 pages which makes me think there is some kind of agenda.

The USA is revered by Americans as the best place in the world but I just can't understand why.

Doesn’t nearly every country have a majority view that theirs is the best country in the world? You only have to look at the last few years in the UK to see so much misguided loyalty to a country that can no longer afford for them to live.

I've just returned after a New Year holiday and spent a few of those days in the USA, first time since before the pandemic.

Where in the US? It is a monumentally big and diverse country and you don’t state where you went?

For me, I think it isn't what it is cracked up to be (not the most free place and the customer service is nowhere near as good as they think it is)

Depends on where you went? I find customer service absolutely fine from New York to the smallest desert town. A little bit grating perhaps with the over friendliness at times but better than some uninterested half-wit slamming down your food and not understanding common courtesy which I find happens all too often in the UK.

and IMO, Europe is so much more interesting to visit.

It’s a totally different continent so what you want from a place may not be met in America. Asia, Africa and Oceania are also totally different to Europe. I personally find The Hoover Dam, The Joshua Tree National Park, The Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, New York, Washington DC and many hundreds more thrilling places to visit. More so than many parts of Europe but also find that there are parts of Europe I adore and parts of the US that I despise equally. You sound like you haven’t really thrown your net very wide in travel regardless of whether you have or not.

I love that I live next to Europe

So where do you live. If it’s the UK then newsflash, the UK is in Europe despite the last few years of certain people attempting to isolate us from the rest of the world.

and have so many great countries only 2 hours away by flight which are easily accessible. Whereas you have at least 7 hours over to the USA

Oh my goodness. What do you want? Someone to decree that the whole of North America is moved 5 hours nearer to you? International travel is part of the fun. I’ve flown New York to Manchester in 5 hours, 1 hour slower than the Canary Islands and the same time as Egypt. If you go West Coast then yes it is up to 10 hours but you do have the choice. Try an iPad or a book if long distance travel is such a pain.

, with ESTAs, TSA security etc

I’m so glad they do have Visa requirements and security. It’s a part of life if you want to go to other parts of the world. FWIW I’ve found US security fine and the ESTA application always seems to come through in a matter of minutes. Only had one delay for extra checks and it was approved within a fortnight. Hardly a hassle if you’re prepared and the ESTA lasts 2 years so I always make sure I get at least 2 if not 3 trips out of one.

and there isn't as much to do or see when you are there (New York being an exception).

Where on earth have you been in the States to say such a thing?

What is your opinion on the USA as a country?

Absolutely love it.

Have you visited?

24 times and counting.

Do you find it an interesting place?

Absolutely. Far more diverse than the UK.

Is it really the land of the free?

Who knows? Or actually cares to be honest.

Do they have the best service in the world?

Subjective. I’ve never had a problem.

To sum up this post, this all sounds like the OP has had a bad experience somewhere or with someone and they’ve decided that the country is all the same and that the people are all the same (New York being an exception). That is an awful generalisation and if this was made about Britain and British people they’d no doubt be up in arms about it. Again, check my list further up of interesting places and that isn’t even remotely scratching the surface.

If the OP really wants everywhere in the world to be like Europe (a terrible thing to expect of our huge planet when so many different cultures exist) then try Boston MA. This is the most European feeling city I’ve been to in the US. If you want Europe anywhere else in the US then unfortunately it’s not really going to happen as it’s all a bit American really which is what everyone who goes to America should really expect.

 

[GS250]

Subjective. I’ve never had a problem.

To sum up this post, this all sounds like the OP has had a bad experience somewhere or with someone and they’ve decided that the country is all the same and that the people are all the same (New York being an exception). That is an awful generalisation and if this was made about Britain and British people they’d no doubt be up in arms about it. Again, check my list further up of interesting places and that isn’t even remotely scratching the surface.

If the OP really wants everywhere in the world to be like Europe (a terrible thing to expect of our huge planet when so many different cultures exist) then try Boston MA. This is the most European feeling city I’ve been to in the US. If you want Europe anywhere else in the US then unfortunately it’s not really going to happen as it’s all a bit American really which is what everyone who goes to America should really expect.

In the round I've generally enjoyed my trips to the USA. Its a brilliant place to visit although obviously not quite the bargain holiday it once was due to exchange rates etc. Some things are 'better' in Europe. Other things are 'better' in the USA. In spite of the hard paced work culture, living there obviously has some great appeal for many Brits as the numbers emigrating are fairly high still. Both Europe and the USA face challenges and I suspect the standard of living in both will decline over the next 20-30 years. It will probably increase though, in other parts of the World.

 

[zero]

I went to the US a few times as a child but I have no interest in going there again, not unless I somehow live to 200 (and in good health!) and exhaust travelling the rest of the world that I want to see first.

 

[1955LR]

I have been for holiday (Vacation) three times in the last 15 years in the US , on one occasion driving from the East coast to West in my own vehicle . It was great way of seeing the country as well as visiting friends and a relatives. It is definitely a diverse country but I did feel a certain insular attitude , but that is probably a result of having such a large country anyway and the fact paid vacation is limited. I got talking to one Tyre Depot manager in Texas who was envious that I had been able to visit Yellowstone NP as she had not even visited any other US state . Regarding the expectation for long working days , I also was surprised when working for Ford , when it owned Land Rover, I rang one of the engineers at 06OO hrs US time expecting to leave a voice mail and he answered the phone . He said it was the only way to get desk work done without interference from endless meeting and phone calls. I hope to visit again but costs and the exchange rate make it less likely . I am still glad to get back home through.

 

[nw1]

I have been for holiday (Vacation) three times in the last 15 years in the US , on one occasion driving from the East coast to West in my own vehicle . It was great way of seeing the country as well as visiting friends and a relatives. It is definitely a diverse country but I did feel a certain insular attitude , but that is probably a result of having such a large country anyway and the fact paid vacation is limited. I got talking to one Tyre Depot manager in Texas who was envious that I had been able to visit Yellowstone NP as she had not even visited any other US state .

It is strange when, as a non-American, one can say that one has visited considerably more US states than actual Americans. But I guess many people there just accept the long-working-hours culture without question.

 

[NorwichRailFan]

Americans have a very strong sence of pride in their country, just like most people living in half decent country's.

 

[nw1]

Americans have a very strong sence of pride in their country, just like most people living in half decent country's.

Is that good though?

An intelligent citizen should, IMO, be fiercely critical of their country if appropriate, and not be afraid to savagely criticise its government if they disagree with its policies and actions.

Should one condemn the Vietnam War protesters back in the 60s because they weren't "patriotic enough"? Should one not be disgusted that the US Government transported its young men thousands of miles away to Vietnam to die? Should one not condemn McCarthyism?

The US federal apparatus has got much to answer for. And an intelligent US citizen would realise that. As it happens, most Americans I met in America did adopt this intelligent and critical attitude; the Americans I met in 2004 for example were universally critical of Bush.

 

[birchesgreen]

Ah yes but patriotism means waving the flag, wanting a better country for it's citizens just means you are woke scum.

 

[GS250]

Ah yes but patriotism means waving the flag, wanting a better country for it's citizens just means you are woke scum.

Sadly there are both extremes clearly on show. Neither side wants to give an inch either. However the big divide isn't as apparent when you are in everyday life there. Most people get on with each other and just want a peaceful life. The media can give a vert exaggerated view of a nation..

 

[NorwichRailFan]

Is that good though?

An intelligent citizen should, IMO, be fiercely critical of their country if appropriate, and not be afraid to savagely criticise its government if they disagree with its policies and actions.

Should one condemn the Vietnam War protesters back in the 60s because they weren't "patriotic enough"? Should one not be disgusted that the US Government transported its young men thousands of miles away to Vietnam to die? Should one not condemn McCarthyism?

The US federal apparatus has got much to answer for. And an intelligent US citizen would realise that. As it happens, most Americans I met in America did adopt this intelligent and critical attitude; the Americans I met in 2004 for example were universally critical of Bush.

Yeh, I agree.

 

[yorksrob]

Wonderful country - Leaders of the West.

Keep an eye on the big business-multinationals though.

 

[Ladder23]

always been my dream to live in the USA, to be precise close to New York. Everything I enjoy is huge there too, I find the country so fascinating. I find myself watching YouTube live walk about videos of New York, and Boston etc every evening. it saddens me that I can’t move there, I would love a life there, but I have too many ties here.