What is your opinion on the USA?

[Strat-tastic]

I caught the train from Denver to San Francisco and the scenery through the Rockies is amazing.
I think the people are great and very approachable, but I dislike the culture.
My takeaway thought was that it's the land of hidden extras (costs).

 

[181]

I'd certainly like to visit one day, however not being much of a flier, I'd prefer it if there was a ferry !

Cunard do still offer crossings between between Southampton and New York. Not very frequent though. I used to work with somebody who used that route for business travel.

Or you can go by cargo ship:

https://www.seat61.com/links.htm#freighter-travel
http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk/transat.htm (that page is dated 2020-2021, and I don't think such travel was possible during Covid, but more recent blog posts elsewhere on the site indicate that at least some operators have now resumed taking passengers).

 

[matacaster]

If you like a more relaxed lifestyle, Santa Barbara is a nice place and is accessible by train. It also has a decent bus service!
Small places (in many states such a kansas) often have no or minimal bus services as the populations of towns are often extremely small, more akin to our villages, despite covering a large land area. In such places, there really is no alternative to the car. Americans pay circa half our price for petrol, but have to drive lmuch ongrrdistances at times.
West coast, East coast, Chicago have good standard of living, transport etc much of the rest of the country is much less wealthy.

 

[alex397]

I have never been to the USA and I’m not exactly in a rush to do so. Mainly because at the moment I’m quite happy exploring Europe which I am more interested in and of course it is considerably cheaper. I must say, American society doesn’t particularly appeal to me either, such as it’s vile obsession with guns.
However, I won’t rule the USA out as there are things there that interest me. Some fascinating geography, history (while it is a relatively ‘new’ country, it does have a fascinating history, such as the early immigration on the East Coast). There are some cities which have very interesting transport systems, even if some say public transport in the US is absolutely rubbish there do seem to be exceptions. I recently saw a video about the transport in Philadelphia which looked rather interesting.

 

[yorksrob]

Or you can go by cargo ship:

https://www.seat61.com/links.htm#freighter-travel
http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk/transat.htm (that page is dated 2020-2021, and I don't think such travel was possible during Covid, but more recent blog posts elsewhere on the site indicate that at least some operators have now resumed taking passengers).

I remember Michael Palin doing that !

 

[Mojo]

Its huge place, with a lot of varying culture. Its not easy to make a generalised blanket statement about it, as it can be very different depending on what state you find yourself in.

I agree, by the same virtue I find with continental Europe that all the cities are same-same and if you've seen one you've seen them all.

I much prefer the US outside of the cities, find the people very friendly and talkative, although many things in shops and restaurants can be extremely expensive. I found food shopping for snacks and lunches at Walmart I did when I visited in Autumn to be similarly priced to Norway.

 

[Snow1964]

I'd certainly like to visit one day, however not being much of a flier, I'd prefer it if there was a ferry !

Flying to USA (and any long haul), is generally different to the basic 3+3 small-medium size plane you get on European flights. Get movies, food etc. Dual aisle planes (airline safety rules mean can’t be more than 3 seats from aisle) wider and less squashed. Often there is also premium economy (bigger seat, better food, more space), business (lots of space and a seat that folds into a flat bed, choice of meals, and lounges in terminals with food and free drinks), and occasionally First (expensive, lots of comfort).
One word of warning some longer range single aisle planes have recently become available, and some budget style airlines have started some transatlantic routes, cheaper but not going to be spacious.

An alternative would be a cruise (Cunard do some transatlantic) or a positioning cruise, many of the cruise ships that are in the Med, or Baltic etc in summer, do a journey to USA in Autumn, there is usually a return positioning cruise in April or May. These are often relatively cheap per night as the multiple sea days are not as exciting as visiting multiple places.

 

[GS250]

Never believe what you obtain from the main stream media regarding a Nation. Whenever I've been to the USA, I've found it not quite the deranged, gun toting den of religious maniacs that some may think it is. Nor is it full of massively obese, bespectacled blue haired females wrestling with each other in public. The majority of places I've been to have been pleasant, civilised and with people who are generally a bit more respectful than those in the UK.

 

[yorksrob]

Flying to USA (and any long haul), is generally different to the basic 3+3 small-medium size plane you get on European flights. Get movies, food etc. Dual aisle planes (airline safety rules mean can’t be more than 3 seats from aisle) wider and less squashed. Often there is also premium economy (bigger seat, better food, more space), business (lots of space and a seat that folds into a flat bed, choice of meals, and lounges in terminals with food and free drinks), and occasionally First (expensive, lots of comfort).
One word of warning some longer range single aisle planes have recently become available, and some budget style airlines have started some transatlantic routes, cheaper but not going to be spacious.

An alternative would be a cruise (Cunard do some transatlantic) or a positioning cruise, many of the cruise ships that are in the Med, or Baltic etc in summer, do a journey to USA in Autumn, there is usually a return positioning cruise in April or May. These are often relatively cheap per night as the multiple sea days are not as exciting as visiting multiple places.

Yes, I once caught a flight to Mexico twenty years ago. That was the real deal - plenty of free booze !

 

[busestrains]

I think the USA has good and bad things about it. They have a lot of issue but there are positives too. So i have a rather mixed view.

They have a lot of issues with health care and guns. The health care is private and costs thousands of pounds causing people to bankrupt themselves. There are far too many shootings. There are also major crime problems in the big cities. Look at California and in particular San Francisco which has become a crime ridden hellhole with thefts from shops and cars all over the place. They also have a huge homeless issue. The government does nothing to sort out homelessness so many cities have streets and streets full of homeless people. They have a bonkers tipping culture too with everyone tipping everywhere they go. So it is a country with a lot of issues.

Their current president Joe Biden is a joke. He is utterly useless. If i had a choice i would ever prefer to have Donald Trump back over him. To be fair none of the USA presidents have been good. But i think Joe Biden is just an embarrassment to their country. The big problem is that the USA is a two party state with all other parties having practically zero chance of getting in power. So there is very little choice.

One thing i very much like and respect about the USA is their constitution and in particular their first amendment which gives a right to freedom of speech. In the USA you can say pretty much whatever you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is and you would never be arrested or charged. They are probably the one and only western country to have full freedom of speech.

Most countries these days have no freedom of speech. Here in the UK we do not have full freedom of speech. Neither does, Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, etc. All of these countries arrest people for speech. Here in the UK it happens all the time with the public order act hugely limiting our freedom of speech. I personally believe you should be allowed to say what you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is. I think everyone has a right to whatever views and opinions they have. So that is one thing that i very much like and respect about the USA.

The rural areas of the USA where most foreign tourists do not go are definitely the best parts of the country. They are nicer than the big cities. People are a lot more friendly there. This is where i recommend visiting. The country also has some beautiful scenery in many parts.

So overall it has its good things and its bad things. It gets a bad reputation but there are many good sides as well. So that is my view.

 

[AlterEgo]

Travelling on Amtrak (many years ago) I found fellow passengers were very willing to talk, which is generally not the experience in the USA.

Americans must be in the top 5% of gregarious cultures, I have no idea why this surprised you!

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Outside the biggest cities America is fascinating and brilliant.

Very much agree. It is a challenging and very foreign country to visit. It’s much more foreign that Europe is.

 

[Iskra]

I think the USA has good and bad things about it. They have a lot of issue but there are positives too. So i have a rather mixed view.

They have a lot of issues with health care and guns. The health care is private and costs thousands of pounds causing people to bankrupt themselves. There are far too many shootings. There are also major crime problems in the big cities. Look at California and in particular San Francisco which has become a crime ridden hellhole with thefts from shops and cars all over the place. They also have a huge homeless issue. The government does nothing to sort out homelessness so many cities have streets and streets full of homeless people. They have a bonkers tipping culture too with everyone tipping everywhere they go. So it is a country with a lot of issues.

Their current president Joe Biden is a joke. He is utterly useless. If i had a choice i would ever prefer to have Donald Trump back over him. To be fair none of the USA presidents have been good. But i think Joe Biden is just an embarrassment to their country. The big problem is that the USA is a two party state with all other parties having practically zero chance of getting in power. So there is very little choice.

One thing i very much like and respect about the USA is their constitution and in particular their first amendment which gives a right to freedom of speech. In the USA you can say pretty much whatever you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is and you would never be arrested or charged. They are probably the one and only western country to have full freedom of speech.

Most countries these days have no freedom of speech. Here in the UK we do not have full freedom of speech. Neither does, Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, etc. All of these countries arrest people for speech. Here in the UK it happens all the time with the public order act hugely limiting our freedom of speech. I personally believe you should be allowed to say what you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is. I think everyone has a right to whatever views and opinions they have. So that is one thing that i very much like and respect about the USA.

The rural areas of the USA where most foreign tourists do not go are definitely the best parts of the country. They are nicer than the big cities. People are a lot more friendly there. This is where i recommend visiting. The country also has some beautiful scenery in many parts.

So overall it has its good things and its bad things. It gets a bad reputation but there are many good sides as well. So that is my view.

That's simply not true, San Francisco was perfectly safe when I visited this year. Also, they are (belatedly) trying to address the issue and get the people off the streets, implementing a system of non-judgemental 'street helpers' who clean the streets and help the homeless people try get off the streets by working with them rather than against them, I have forgotten what they are called but they wear green vests and are employed former homeless people. LA would have been a better example, considering there are places there that the police patrol by helicopter because it is to dangerous for them on the ground.

I also find it strange that you revere both Trump and their constitution, when he himself had no respect for their constitution...

 

[AlterEgo]

One thing i very much like and respect about the USA is their constitution and in particular their first amendment which gives a right to freedom of speech. In the USA you can say pretty much whatever you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is and you would never be arrested or charged. They are probably the one and only western country to have full freedom of speech.

Really, you have no idea. Full freedom of speech?

Most countries these days have no freedom of speech. Here in the UK we do not have full freedom of speech. Neither does, Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, etc. All of these countries arrest people for speech. Here in the UK it happens all the time with the public order act hugely limiting our freedom of speech. I personally believe you should be allowed to say what you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is. I think everyone has a right to whatever views and opinions they have. So that is one thing that i very much like and respect about the USA.

Nonsense. There are significant limits to freedom of speech in the USA. Obscenity, fraud, child p***, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights. Etc.

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That's simply not true, San Francisco was perfectly safe when I visited this year.

San Francisco is appalling and remains the only place where a woman actively sat next to me on a train to escape the attention of some meth head. It is a worrisome place to travel if you’re not confident. There is a huge amount of deprivation and human misery.

 

[Iskra]

Americans must be in the top 5% of gregarious cultures, I have no idea why this surprised you!

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Very much agree. It is a challenging and very foreign country to visit. It’s much more foreign that Europe is.

I disagree, I feel right at home there and travelling there easy. Sharing a language makes things much easier. Although a lot of my cultural affection for the US probably comes from playing the computer game series Grand Theft Auto when I was younger, as I find the country is actually very much like that game so I feel comfortable with it.

I'd say Europe is more culturally and historically interesting however.

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Really, you have no idea. Full freedom of speech?


Nonsense. There are significant limits to freedom of speech in the USA. Obscenity, fraud, child p***, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights. Etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2023 ==


San Francisco is appalling and remains the only place where a woman actively sat next to me on a train to escape the attention of some meth head. It is a worrisome place to travel if you’re not confident. There is a huge amount of deprivation and human misery.

All I can say is that I disagree. Yes, I did see people high on meth (or whatever), but they kept themselves to themselves (and are quite obvious if you want to give them a wide-berth) and overall I felt safe wondering around the city on foot at all times of day and night. I'm sorry about what you saw, but it could happen virtually anywhere in the world.

 

[185]

USA is a truly amazing place, only if you know where to go.

Get out the big dirty cities to see mountains, rivers and truly spectacular scenery. Cycle across the Golden Gate bridge or visit Alcatraz in SF. In LA, climb to the Hollywood sign then watch the sun set over the city from Griffith Observatory. Get the 3-day/2 nts train, good value from Chicago to SF and see snow in Nebraska, Colorado River & the Rockies, the desert in Nevada. Washington DC has some amazing city scenery and free museums, whilst I've stayed with friends in North Carolina, Wyoming and Salt Lake City which have some truly beautiful bits. Walk across the bridge at Niagara into Canada.. excellent views.

 

[birchesgreen]

USA is a truly amazing place, only if you know where to go.

Get out the big dirty cities to see mountains, rivers and truly spectacular scenery. Cycle across the Golden Gate bridge or visit Alcatraz in SF. In LA, climb to the Hollywood sign then watch the sun set over the city from Griffith Observatory. Get the 3-day/2 nts train, good value from Chicago to SF and see snow in Nebraska, Colorado River & the Rockies, the desert in Nevada. Washington DC has some amazing city scenery and free museums, whilst I've stayed with friends in North Carolina, Wyoming and Salt Lake City which have some truly beautiful bits. Walk across the bridge at Niagara into Canada.. excellent views.

Yes Wyoming and Northern California are places i'd like to visit. Maybe one day.

 

[GS250]

Yes Wyoming and Northern California are places i'd like to visit. Maybe one day.

Washington State in general is very pleasant too. Seattle quite interesting although some very interesting examples of citizen about.

 

[AlterEgo]

All I can say is that I disagree. Yes, I did see people high on meth (or whatever), but they kept themselves to themselves (and are quite obvious if you want to give them a wide-berth) and overall I felt safe wondering around the city on foot at all times of day and night. I'm sorry about what you saw, but it could happen virtually anywhere in the world.

It haopens in most third world countries. I go several times a year to the US and San Francisco is just about the nadir of western civilisation when it comes to safe public spaces.

I’m pleased you didn’t witness any violence, public defecation, bum fights on Market Street, a train taken out of service on the BART because someone smashed a fire extinguisher through a window, or a woman fearful for her personal safety on public transport! And that was in just three days this year!

“Could happen anywhere” yes, “could”, but the frequency and severity of the problem is very bad in SF as well as other cities in the United States.

 

[birchesgreen]

Washington State in general is very pleasant too. Seattle quite interesting although some very interesting examples of citizen about.

Yeah i'd love to visit the aviation museum in Seattle. Infact quite a few amazing aviation museums in the USA, i need a very long trip...

 

[Iskra]

It haopens in most third world countries. I go several times a year to the US and San Francisco is just about the nadir of western civilisation when it comes to safe public spaces.

I’m pleased you didn’t witness any violence, public defecation, bum fights on Market Street, a train taken out of service on the BART because someone smashed a fire extinguisher through a window, or a woman fearful for her personal safety on public transport! And that was in just three days this year!

“Could happen anywhere” yes, “could”, but the frequency and severity of the problem is very bad in SF as well as other cities in the United States.

On the other hand, I spent three days there last year and experienced none of that and felt it a brilliant city.

I've seen all of those things in the UK, and I reckon that you could probably see all that in an hour in a UK city late on a Saturday night. ...and I'm not just being negative saying that, I think the UK is an amazing place despite all that.

 

[matacaster]

If you like a more relaxed lifestyle, Santa Barbara is a nice place and is accessible by train.

I think the USA has good and bad things about it. They have a lot of issue but there are positives too. So i have a rather mixed view.

They have a lot of issues with health care and guns. The health care is private and costs thousands of pounds causing people to bankrupt themselves. There are far too many shootings. There are also major crime problems in the big cities. Look at California and in particular San Francisco which has become a crime ridden hellhole with thefts from shops and cars all over the place. They also have a huge homeless issue. The government does nothing to sort out homelessness so many cities have streets and streets full of homeless people. They have a bonkers tipping culture too with everyone tipping everywhere they go. So it is a country with a lot of issues.

Their current president Joe Biden is a joke. He is utterly useless. If i had a choice i would ever prefer to have Donald Trump back over him. To be fair none of the USA presidents have been good. But i think Joe Biden is just an embarrassment to their country. The big problem is that the USA is a two party state with all other parties having practically zero chance of getting in power. So there is very little choice.

One thing i very much like and respect about the USA is their constitution and in particular their first amendment which gives a right to freedom of speech. In the USA you can say pretty much whatever you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is and you would never be arrested or charged. They are probably the one and only western country to have full freedom of speech.

Most countries these days have no freedom of speech. Here in the UK we do not have full freedom of speech. Neither does, Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, etc. All of these countries arrest people for speech. Here in the UK it happens all the time with the public order act hugely limiting our freedom of speech. I personally believe you should be allowed to say what you want no matter how controversial or offensive it is. I think everyone has a right to whatever views and opinions they have. So that is one thing that i very much like and respect about the USA.

The rural areas of the USA where most foreign tourists do not go are definitely the best parts of the country. They are nicer than the big cities. People are a lot more friendly there. This is where i recommend visiting. The country also has some beautiful scenery in many parts.

So overall it has its good things and its bad things. It gets a bad reputation but there are many good sides as well. So that is my view.

If you have good healthcare insurance, preferably through your employer, the USA healthcare system is the best in the world. You can often choose which hospital, which consultant etc in which state etc. Premiums are not cheap though and if you have multiple health issues, you may find it impossible to switch insurance company as no one else will take you on. For the poor or those who choose not to insure themselves, there is a very basic state scheme can't remember name Medicare? However it's very limited in its scope. Wages in states are generally much higher than here so it's not so bad as it sounds.

 

[Mojo]

That's simply not true, San Francisco was perfectly safe when I visited this year.

San Francisco is appalling and remains the only place where a woman actively sat next to me on a train to escape the attention of some meth head. It is a worrisome place to travel if you’re not confident. There is a huge amount of deprivation and human misery.

San Fransisco was awful when I went about 8 years ago, full of vagrants and people hassling you for money ("panhandlers" as they call them over there). I hear it's even worse now. Every single Muni Tram I had gone on had people acting strange.

I've never been anywhere in the developed world where you have to physically step over people sleeping in the middle of a booking hall at a station to get through the ticket barriers.

 

[AlterEgo]

On the other hand, I spent three days there last year and experienced none of that and felt it a brilliant city.

I've seen all of those things in the UK, and I reckon that you could probably see all that in an hour in a UK city late on a Saturday night. ...and I'm not just being negative saying that, I think the UK is an amazing place despite all that.

"San Francisco is no worse for human misery and deprivation than any UK city" is a take I've never ever heard before if I'm perfectly honest.

San Fransisco was awful when I went about 8 years ago, full of vagrants and people hassling you for money ("panhandlers" as they call them over there). I hear it's even worse now. Every single Muni Tram I had gone on had people acting strange.

I've never been anywhere in the developed world where you have to physically step over people sleeping in the middle of a booking hall at a station to get through the ticket barriers.

It has got worse since covid. I got on the BART at the airport this year to see a junkie of some sort in the first carriage unconscious by the driver's door. The driver stepped over him and called the cops, and we were delayed 20 minutes. The sheer scale of the problem is unrelenting.

 

[GS250]

San Fransisco was awful when I went about 8 years ago, full of vagrants and people hassling you for money ("panhandlers" as they call them over there). I hear it's even worse now. Every single Muni Tram I had gone on had people acting strange.

I've never been anywhere in the developed world where you have to physically step over people sleeping in the middle of a booking hall at a station to get through the ticket barriers.

Agreed. Like many big US cities that has applied fiercely Democrat policies it has suffered badly as a result. Lo and behold those who had voted for these policies have fled, ironically to generally Republican states.

San Fran was an absolute let down after a decent journey on the Zephyr.

Compare this to the zero tolerance policy applied to New York in the 80s after it had become a dangerous dump. Within 6 months ordinary workers and tourists could enjoy their time without worrying about the actions of the relative few.

 

[Iskra]

"San Francisco is no worse for human misery and deprivation than any UK city" is a take I've never ever heard before if I'm perfectly honest.

That’s not what I said though is it.

Anyway, moving on; the reality is probably somewhere between our two experiences.

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Agreed. Like many big US cities that has applied fiercely Democrat policies it has suffered badly as a result. Lo and behold those who had voted for these policies have fled, ironically to generally Republican states.

San Fran was an absolute let down after a decent journey on the Zephyr.

Compare this to the zero tolerance policy applied to New York in the 80s after it had become a dangerous dump. Within 6 months ordinary workers and tourists could enjoy their time without worrying about the actions of the relative few.

SF has learned it’s lesson though and changed its policies and now that seems to be working from my experience at least.

I visited New York on the same trip and it felt way more chaotic and edgy. The ridiculous amount of police around and constant wailing of sirens made it feel like there must be a lot of crime going-on rather than their presence being reassuring. SF felt much more relaxed in comparison.

 

[DelW]

I'd certainly like to visit one day, however not being much of a flier, I'd prefer it if there was a ferry !

Cunard do still offer crossings between between Southampton and New York. Not very frequent though. I used to work with somebody who used that route for business travel.

Queen Mary 2 used to make crossings every two weeks or so through much of the year (taking around five - six days each way). I've used it twice westbound and once eastbound, it's very painless compared with flying, but a bit more expensive .

 

[Iskra]

Queen Mary 2 used to make crossings every two weeks or so through much of the year (taking around five - six days each way). I've used it twice westbound and once eastbound, it's very painless compared with flying, but a bit more expensive .

It’s on my bucket list, although sailing through the grey Atlantic seems slightly uninspiring, but I guess it’s all about enjoying the onboard service instead.

 

[yorksrob]

Queen Mary 2 used to make crossings every two weeks or so through much of the year (taking around five - six days each way). I've used it twice westbound and once eastbound, it's very painless compared with flying, but a bit more expensive .

Ooh, that sounds like the way to go !

 

[DelW]

It’s on my bucket list, although sailing through the grey Atlantic seems slightly uninspiring, but I guess it’s all about enjoying the onboard service instead.

It isn't always grey ....

 

[Iskra]

It isn't always grey ....

View attachment 126693View attachment 126696

I’m sold!