Independent Operators in the Lothians

[Volvodart]

I see from Facebook that Horsburgh has acquired 9 2002/3 Dennis Tridents from JH Coaches for newly won additional school contracts.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Horsburgh must be amongst only a small number of operators who's fleet is mostly 15-20 years old and will buy 20 year old buses for a new service. Meanwhile Lothian who operate in the same area have been known to sell buses well under 10 years old. They must be pretty stretched on money going by the condition of some of their buses from first hand experience.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Horsburgh must be amongst only a small number of operators who's fleet is mostly 15-20 years old and will buy 20 year old buses for a new service. Meanwhile Lothian who operate in the same area have been known to sell buses well under 10 years old. They must be pretty stretched on money going by the condition of some of their buses from first hand experience.

Apparently they once had 12 (or 13 plates?) but they were "too expensive" to operate. This is pure speculation, I have no evidence to confirm this

 

[Observer]

Horsburgh must be amongst only a small number of operators who's fleet is mostly 15-20 years old and will buy 20 year old buses for a new service. Meanwhile Lothian who operate in the same area have been known to sell buses well under 10 years old. They must be pretty stretched on money going by the condition of some of their buses from first hand experience.

The reason they have been bought is because of seatbelts being required on all school services, not just primary schools. They're not intended for standard service work but as they are PSVAR, nothing could stop them.

Also, they picked up more contracts in the Falkirk Council area (all can be found by going to the individual school pages as well as this page too for one school), which have an age limit (I believe it's 18 years), so buying these allows them to move more of the ex-Lothian deckers to that area in order to run them. SD Travel have also picked up work in the council area, as have Salmond's, when it comes to West Lothian operators.

A link to the video in question that Volvodart was referring to. I would assume these would help kill off the remaining step entrance double deckers left but we will have to see.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Thanks for the reply. I was unaware that in 2022 Horsburgh still have step entrance buses. I knew they had some years ago but there can't be many step entrance buses still earning revenue in existence now. Horsburgh have an unusually high average fleet age.

 

[stevenedin]

Thanks for the reply. I was unaware that in 2022 Horsburgh still have step entrance buses. I knew they had some years ago but there can't be many step entrance buses still earning revenue in existence now. Horsburgh have an unusually high average fleet age.

Which is good for us bus enthusiasts

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Thanks for the reply. I was unaware that in 2022 Horsburgh still have step entrance buses. I knew they had some years ago but there can't be many step entrance buses still earning revenue in existence now. Horsburgh have an unusually high average fleet age.

Do you mean the Olympians from Lothian? I've not got a clue if they have them or not, so I'll rely on you're response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2022 ==

QQ: Were they gold because I saw a few on the City Bypass a few weeks ago.

 

[stantheman]

They seem to have regained the Balerno school contract from West Lothian

 

[mb88]

Horsburgh really seem to be struggling just now. Multiple cancellations on the 40/X40 a daily occurrence at the moment.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder if that is driver shortage or vehicle breakdown. It's probably both but I suspect that given the fleet age and condition this will have a very prominent bearing on it

 

[Bus9120UK]

I wonder if that is driver shortage or vehicle breakdown. It's probably both but I suspect that given the fleet age and condition this will have a very prominent bearing on it

Each cancellation has the reason given, which is "Driver Sickness". In fact now I look at it, this is no longer the case and it is now "Operational difficulties & Driver Shortage/Sickness".

 

[Porty]

I see that Prentice have announced their services for Monday 19th (Queen's funeral bank holiday). A mixed bag. Some services cancelled altogether (e.g. those heading for Fort Kinnaird), some operating a Saturday services and others (e.g. 109 and DRT) operating a weekday timetable but no services 1100-1200. East Coast operating a Sunday service.

 

[overthewater]

Prentice Has some service changes planned for the end of November: Details from Vosa from Monday 10th October.

PM1029048
PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: East Lothian Community Hospital to Preston Lodge High School via Longniddry, Port Seaton, Prestonpans
Service number: 118A
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022


PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Seaton Sands to Musselburgh Tesco Terminus via Port Seton, Prestonpans, Wallyford
Service number: 118
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Elphinsone , Duries Park to Fort Kinnaird via Tranent, Prestonpans, Wallyford
Service number: 112
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Haddington High Street or Elphinstone, Duries Park to Prestonpans, High Street (Lidl) or Alder Road, Port Seaton via Elphinstone, Tranent,
Service number: 110
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Haddington High Street to Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh via Drem,Gullane, Aberlady, Longniddry, Wallyford, Whitecraig, Musselburgh
Service number: 111
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date:21 Nov 2022

 

[Blindtraveler]

I also spotted on Facebook during the week that they have taken another new e200
Can't be doing too badly for himself

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Prentice Has some service changes planned for the end of November: Details from Vosa from Monday 10th October.

PM1029048
PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: East Lothian Community Hospital to Preston Lodge High School via Longniddry, Port Seaton, Prestonpans
Service number: 118A
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022


PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Seaton Sands to Musselburgh Tesco Terminus via Port Seton, Prestonpans, Wallyford
Service number: 118
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Elphinsone , Duries Park to Fort Kinnaird via Tranent, Prestonpans, Wallyford
Service number: 112
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Haddington High Street or Elphinstone, Duries Park to Prestonpans, High Street (Lidl) or Alder Road, Port Seaton via Elphinstone, Tranent,
Service number: 110
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 21 Nov 2022

PRENTICE COACHES LTD
Route: Haddington High Street to Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh via Drem,Gullane, Aberlady, Longniddry, Wallyford, Whitecraig, Musselburgh
Service number: 111
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date:21 Nov 2022

So the 118 is no longer going to Fort Kinnaird via Brunstane? That’s a shame, I thought it was a handy link for Edinburgh College students

 

[Avenger20]

So the 118 is no longer going to Fort Kinnaird via Brunstane? That’s a shame, I thought it was a handy link for Edinburgh College students

Also according to the 111 registration, it will return to operating via Drem, Gullane and Aberlady. Will this mean the end of the 122?

It's often the case that VOSA registrations are not quite correct, can we assume that to be the case here or are Prentice feeling the pinch like the rest and having to cut back a bit?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

It would appear that Prentice have taken on another brand new E200mmc. This one (numbered 343) appears to have taken the cherished ADL200E registration plate that was inherited when 334 (YX66WDS) was purchased from Go Goodwins. I’d be very surprised if this vehicle isn’t to the exact same spec as 341 (YX22OGF) and 342 (YX72OJG). A bit odd that they’ve waited until now to put the special registration plate on a bus again though?

342 replaced 291 (YX12DHL) which departed for John Hunter so it will be interesting to see if 343 is replacing another older Enviro200.

I’ve attached a link below to bustimes.org which opens a page to where 343 can be found tracking.

343 - ADL200E

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It would appear that Prentice have taken on another brand new E200mmc. This one (numbered 343) appears to have taken the cherished ADL200E registration plate that was inherited when 334 (YX66WDS) was purchased from Go Goodwins. I’d be very surprised if this vehicle isn’t to the exact same spec as 341 (YX22OGF) and 342 (YX72OJG). A bit odd that they’ve waited until now to put the special registration plate on a bus again though?

342 replaced 291 (YX12DHL) which departed for John Hunter so it will be interesting to see if 343 is replacing another older Enviro200.

I’ve attached a link below to bustimes.org which opens a page to where 343 can be found tracking.

That seems to be correct. I suspect for Services 110/112 as that's what 342 has been allocated to. The other vehicles on these routes are Enviro200 Classics, so I suspect they'll use this on those services.

 

[route101]

It would appear that Prentice have taken on another brand new E200mmc. This one (numbered 343) appears to have taken the cherished ADL200E registration plate that was inherited when 334 (YX66WDS) was purchased from Go Goodwins. I’d be very surprised if this vehicle isn’t to the exact same spec as 341 (YX22OGF) and 342 (YX72OJG). A bit odd that they’ve waited until now to put the special registration plate on a bus again though?

342 replaced 291 (YX12DHL) which departed for John Hunter so it will be interesting to see if 343 is replacing another older Enviro200.

I’ve attached a link below to bustimes.org which opens a page to where 343 can be found tracking.

What is a cherished registration plate?

 

[M803UYA]

What is a cherished registration plate?

Either what is commonly called a 'select' plate by DVLA who sell them (certain letters and numbers) or a ABC-A, A-ABC post 1983 registration. Coach operators used to do it with coaches to disguise the age of the vehicle and they'd use letters/numbers or a Northern Ireland plate, which is also dateless.

 

[scosutsut]

What is a cherished registration plate?

Either what is commonly called a 'select' plate by DVLA who sell them (certain letters and numbers) or a ABC-A, A-ABC post 1983 registration. Coach operators used to do it with coaches to disguise the age of the vehicle and they'd use letters/numbers or a Northern Ireland plate, which is also dateless.

Commonly referred to also as a "private plate" ie a registration mark purchased and applied to a vehicle after first registration that either disguises the age, or means something to the owner of said vehicle - which could be anything their initials, nickname, birthday, favourite football team for example HFC plates being popular in Edinburgh (although you don't always know if they are Hearts or Hibs supporters unless the car is maroon or green!)

Rules are you can't put a dated registration plate on a vehicle that is newer than the vehicle itself - it must be the same age, or older.

For example I have a 16 plate car with a 55 plate registration on it (from 2005) which is fine, but I couldn't put a 21 registration from 2021 on it.

The plate ADL 200E would have been issued in 1967, so it can go on any vehicle equal to or newer than that year.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

It would appear that Prentice have taken on another brand new E200mmc. This one (numbered 343) appears to have taken the cherished ADL200E registration plate that was inherited when 334 (YX66WDS) was purchased from Go Goodwins. I’d be very surprised if this vehicle isn’t to the exact same spec as 341 (YX22OGF) and 342 (YX72OJG). A bit odd that they’ve waited until now to put the special registration plate on a bus again though?

342 replaced 291 (YX12DHL) which departed for John Hunter so it will be interesting to see if 343 is replacing another older Enviro200.

I’ve attached a link below to bustimes.org which opens a page to where 343 can be found tracking.

New as YX72OFZ, first registered on 21/12/22.
Reregistered to the ADL200E plates on 28/12/22.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

New as YX72OFZ, first registered on 21/12/22.
Reregistered to the ADL200E plates on 28/12/22.

I did wonder if this was a re-reg given the fact it’s largely dealer spec, so thanks for clearing that up. Do you know where you found this information as I’m currently looking for other old registrations for a number of buses?

 

[ChrisPJ]

https://www.freecarcheck.co.uk/ is good

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I did wonder if this was a re-reg given the fact it’s largely dealer spec, so thanks for clearing that up. Do you know where you found this information as I’m currently looking for other old registrations for a number of buses?

I asked someone who has access to subscription based CarweB.
There used to be free sites that didn't give dates but did offer the last few characters of the VIN which helped.

Have you tried BusData/BusView?
www.busdata.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==

https://www.freecarcheck.co.uk/ is good

That's excellent - didn't know about this one. Thank You.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==

I asked someone who has access to subscription based CarweB.
There used to be free sites that didn't give dates but did offer the last few characters of the VIN which helped.

Have you tried BusData/BusView?
www.busdata.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2023 ==


That's excellent - didn't know about this one. Thank You.

Despite the data being returned by the DVLA enquiries; ADL200E is actually fitted to YX22OGF and renumbered from 341 to 343.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Despite the data being returned by the DVLA enquiries; ADL200E is actually fitted to YX22OGF and renumbered from 341 to 343.

I’m not sure this is the case. I think 341 is currently off the road. I’ve checked three websites and all show ADL200E as having been YX72OFZ. I’d also question what the point of Prentice renumbering it would be too.

In addition to this, 341 was normally allocated to the 111, with 342 normally appearing on the 110/112 until 343 began service. 342 now appears to be doing the diagram that 341 had mostly been doing. 343 so far appears to have only been allocated to the same 110/112 diagram every day that 342 had been doing. This is the diagram that ultimately forms the last 111 from the Royal Infirmary in the evening.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I’m not sure this is the case. I think 341 is currently off the road. I’ve checked three websites and all show ADL200E as having been YX72OFZ. I’d also question what the point of Prentice renumbering it would be too.

In addition to this, 341 was normally allocated to the 111, with 342 normally appearing on the 110/112 until 343 began service. 342 now appears to be doing the diagram that 341 had mostly been doing. 343 so far appears to have only been allocated to the same 110/112 diagram every day that 342 had been doing. This is the diagram that ultimately forms the last 111 from the Royal Infirmary in the evening.

ADL200E IS fitted to YX22OGF. It has become apparent that YX22OGF was never been actually officially registered with the DVLA despite operating since May 2022. (Whether that be DVLA error or Prentice, I don't know).
YX72OFZ must be the registration it has now been issued by the DVLA when the paperwork issue was discovered. Online registration sites also give the same VIN for YX72OFZ as recorded with YX22OGF.
Whether ADL200E was fitted as a consequence of "covering up" the problem or the problem was discovered by the attempted reregistration is unknown.
I've seen a text conversation involving the owner of Prentice who states that it was renumbered to make it look to another local operator that they had received another brand new vehicle.

Although no definitive proof; 341 - YX22OGF hasn't tracked on bustimes.org since ADL200E started tracking.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I've asked the Prentice owner and if he responds I'll get back to you all, although if they don't respond to me (which they rarely do) then that does show a big hint on if it's the same bus or a different bus.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This whole situation seems very strange in my opinion. I’m sure it’ll all be cleared up soon. I’m curious to know if anyone knows of any similar situations to this in the past?

In any case if this is true and it has all been revised, for the DVLA to issue a newer plate like this must be extremely rare?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I've asked the Prentice owner and if he responds I'll get back to you all, although if they don't respond to me (which they rarely do) then that does show a big hint on if it's the same bus or a different bus.

I've never met, but I have a great online relationship with the owners of Prentice through Flickr. They are usually most helpful and prompt at responding. Radio silence so far after 3 days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jan 2023 ==

This whole situation seems very strange in my opinion. I’m sure it’ll all be cleared up soon. I’m curious to know if anyone knows of any similar situations to this in the past?

In any case if this is true and it has all been revised, for the DVLA to issue a newer plate like this must be extremely rare?

Technically a "newer" plate hasn't been issued if this is the first time the paperwork has been processed by DVLA.

DVLA did issue a 53-plate to a 1990 vintage former Dublin Olympian for Durbin of Patchway in 2003. Acquired with 90-D-1034 plate, registered to H980PTW but after carrying two "private" plates in a row, gained a 53-plate upon reregistration. Didn't carry it for long as it went for scrap.