Oyster - higher charge due to OSI

[RJ]

A journey was made from Victoria LU to East Croydon involving LU then Thameslink.

The Oyster Card has a NR Only Priv discount on it. £5.40 was charged.

A Zone 1 LU trip is £2.50 and a Zone 1-5 NR trip is 95p off peak so the expected fare was £3.45.

Is the Oyster system capable of being programmed disregard an OSI where it causes the fare to be more expensive?

 

[transportphoto]

I think the answer is no, as is evident above, although a call to the Oyster helpline will probably result in you being credited the difference as a gesture of goodwill given an explanation.

@MikeWh would be best placed for this one given his specialism.

 

[TEW]

I seem to recall the advise for holders of NR Only Priv discounted Oysters when they first became a thing was to avoid using the card for paying for journeys on the Underground as overcharging may occur.

 

[RJ]

I think the answer is no, as is evident above, although a call to the Oyster helpline will probably result in you being credited the difference as a gesture of goodwill given an explanation.

@MikeWh would be best placed for this one given his specialism.

Question was can it be fixed, rather than has it been fixed? The system logic has been known to change to fix issues where discounts are involved. Maybe somebody here knows if it has been looked into and concluded one way or the other.

I didn’t make the journey myself but I’ll be sure to pass the advice on!

 

[MikeWh]

I'd say it is unlikely to be fixed. The amount of processing allowed while a touch is being made is clearly limited to avoid delays.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

It's not the OSI that's done it; the fare would have been the same if you'd not gone through a gateline en route. As already mentioned, the official line is that you need to use separate cards for each leg as creating and updating special composite fares (part Priv part full rate) for what is regarded as a niche passenger group would involve a fair bit of work and I think push the number of different fares which can be held for each journey beyond its limit.

 

[Benjwri]

It's not the OSI that's done it

It is the OSI in the sense that if the OSI didn’t exist it would be two separate journeys. Obviously the OSI can be cancelled out by waiting the minimum connection time or doing that OSI gate dance. (I cannot remember how it is done properly for the life of me, I’m sure someone else can advise.)

 

[MikeWh]

or doing that OSI gate dance. (I cannot remember how it is done properly for the life of me, I’m sure someone else can advise.)

That almost certainly won't help in terms of splitting priv and non priv. Either the Underground journey would have to end at the NR station or the NR journey would have to start at the Underground station.

 

[pelli]

That almost certainly won't help in terms of splitting priv and non priv. Either the Underground journey would have to end at the NR station or the NR journey would have to start at the Underground station.

But it's only crucial to make the National Rail leg be recognised as NR only, to obtain the Priv discount - having the London Underground leg end at the NR station isn't necessarily a problem.

If the journey was Victoria to Blackfriars to East Croydon, then making the Underground leg end at Blackfriars NR costs the same as ending it at Blackfriars LU (£2.50). (If I understand your explanation correctly, no "mixed-mode premium" is charged because the Thameslink core uses the TfL-LU fare scale rather than the NR scale.) Hence, doing the Out-of-Station-Interchange dance at Blackfriars NR ought to work:
Victoria LU (in) -> Blackfriars LU (out) -OSI-> Blackfriars NR (in) -> Blackfriars NR (out): £2.50
Blackfriars NR (in) -> East Croydon NR (out): 95p (off-peak, Priv).
(The same fares also apply at London Bridge instead of Blackfriars.)

In cases where making the LU leg end at the NR station costs more than the LU leg alone would, the OSI-dance split might still save money, but of course you'd save even more (and avoid the silly dance) by using a separate card for the LU leg.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think this is a case where using two cards is the way forward - an Oyster with the NR Only Priv discount for the NR journey, and another seperate card - Oyster or contactless - for the TfL-rate (i.e. LU) leg.

 

[RJ]

Thanks all for the views and advice, I have passed it on. Interesting as ever!

I'm one of those people who carries two Oyster cards but wouldn't want to recommend that to anyone unless they had to do it. Seems in this case it's necessary to benefit from the discount.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks all for the views and advice, I have passed it on. Interesting as ever!

I'm one of those people who carries two Oyster cards but wouldn't want to recommend that to anyone unless they had to do it. Seems in this case it's necessary to benefit from the discount.

Or use a contactless card (instead of a second Oyster card) - unless one wants to take advantage of a Railcard discount of course, in which case it has to be an Oyster.

If using two Oyster cards it'd be handy to have one with a different design - e.g. one of the special issue, 'limited edition' designs such as recent one for the opening of the Elizabeth line. Of course such a card is not necessarily easy to aquire casually!

I'd suggest a Visitor Oyster card, but I don't think they can be registered, and for a Railcard discount to be loaded on an Oyster I think the card is supposed to be registered nowadays (if so, perhaps the same rule also applies to having an NR Only Priv discount loaded) - maybe @MikeWh can clarify these matters?

 

[Watershed]

Or use a contactless card (instead of a second Oyster card) - unless one wants to take advantage of a Railcard discount of course, in which case it has to be an Oyster.

If using two Oyster cards it'd be handy to have one with a different design - e.g. one of the special issue, 'limited edition' designs such as recent one for the opening of the Elizabeth line. Of course such a card is not necessarily easy to aquire casually!

I'd suggest a Visitor Oyster card, but I don't think they can be registered, and for a Railcard discount to be loaded on an Oyster I think the card is supposed to be registered nowadays (if so, perhaps the same rule also applies to having an NR Only Priv discount loaded) - maybe @MikeWh can clarify these matters?

Or you could just put the second Oyster in a separate plastic ticket wallet, or attach a post-it note to identify which is which!

It's possible to have a Oyster card with multiple discounts applied - e.g. if holding two Oyster cards as well as a Railcard and a Priv, it's possible to get both applied to both cards.