Travel Incident Report

[lae]

I recently purchased a ticket and didn't realise I had bought a child's ticket and thought nothing of it as the man scanned my ticket and then my friend he then turned back to me and asked for my age I panicked and I said I was 15. I then said to him I am not I offer to pay the difference of the fare or even the fine as I didn't want to make a big fuss, he refused saying that I could be prosecuted, I gave my details to him.I talked to the ticket office and they said there was nothing they could do as they don't have anything to do with TI's they said to appeal or ring the company as it was a mistake.
I e-mailed the SMB about the situation and didn't get a response untill a month later "a letter has been sent" was the response alternatively I did try to ring them about the situation and they said the refrence number will be on the letter.
The letter arrived after a month as a formal warning for £40 (I know this isn't a lot but I am 16 and I will have to pay it myself) the original ticket is £4 I did try to appeal it but they said I could not.

I researched adminisistration fee and it said that it is an additional fee if the fine is not paid within 3 weeks, however no letter had been recieved within 3 weeks.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

Your best bet is to pay the £40. While some people manage to negotiate it away, some people don't. And you also need to know that if you don't pay it, the railway can take you to court. On the basis of what you have told us, in court the railway would win, and you could face a fine of more than £40, and prosecution costs on top of that.

Given your age, some railway companies will try to avoid prosecuting you, but there's no guarantee that they will stick with that. So again, my advice is that you should pay the £40, which will give you certainly that nothing more will happen to you.

 

[lae]

Welcome to the forum.

Your best bet is to pay the £40. While some people manage to negotiate it away, some people don't. And you also need to know that if you don't pay it, the railway can take you to court. On the basis of what you have told us, in court the railway would win, and you could face a fine of more than £40, and prosecution costs on top of that.

Given your age, some railway companies will try to avoid prosecuting you, but there's no guarantee that they will stick with that. So again, my advice is that you should pay the £40, which will give you certainly that nothing more will happen to you.

Thank you for the quick response, I am going to pay the fine but I found it unfair because I did say to the officer that I would pay for an adult ticket, the reason I lied about my age was because I was intimidated by him as he started saying things about prosecution and criminal offence.

Can you explain to me what adminstraton fee is?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We really need to know a bit more about this to be able to advise properly. Which train company are you dealing with? Are you able to post a copy of the letter they have sent you with any personal details and case reference numbers removed.

Unfortunately you need an adult ticket to travel by train once you reach the age of 16. Although it sounds trivial it is a criminal offence if you use a child ticket when you aren't entitled to one. The train company would be entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court where yoiu would be found guilty and fined. What appears to have happened here is that the train company is offering to settle the matter for £40 which would avoid having to go to court. This is called an out of court settlement or administrative settlement. While the £40 appears to be a fine it isn't because only a court can impose a fine as a punishment following a conviction. If you pay the out of court settlement that will be the end of the matter.

I would pay the £40 to avoid the matter escalating any further. If you cannot afford this is there anyone you can borrow the money from?

 

[lae]

Welcome to the forum!

We really need to know a bit more about this to be able to advise properly. Which train company are you dealing with? Are you able to post a copy of the letter they have sent you with any personal details and case reference numbers removed.

Unfortunately you need an adult ticket to travel by train once you reach the age of 16. Although it sounds trivial it is a criminal offence if you use a child ticket when you aren't entitled to one. The train company would be entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court where yoiu would be found guilty and fined. What appears to have happened here is that the train company is offering to settle the matter for £40 which would avoid having to go to court. This is called an out of court settlement or administrative settlement. While the £40 appears to be a fine it isn't because only a court can impose a fine as a punishment following a conviction. If you pay the out of court settlement that will be the end of the matter.

I would pay the £40 to avoid the matter escalating any further. If you cannot afford this is there anyone you can borrow the money from?

Hi thank you for the response I bought a train ticket in advance and there was a booking fee which shows I did want to pay for a ticket and I wasn't bunking the train (this is quite common in my area) but I didn't realise I had bought a child ticket because the last time I purchased a train ticket was when I was 15 (couple of months prior) and didn't know that the settings were automatic I just bought it on the app. The train guy scanned my QR code and then my friend he turned back to me and was saying how he was an officer and how he believes I shouldn't have a childs train ticket and he has the right to sommat. I panicked as he sounded serious so I said I was 15 (this was stupid of me I know but he was really intimidating) I admitted to him I wasn't and said I could pay the fare of an adult ticket or the fine. He abruptly said no you will get a letter home and you will have to respond I gave my details and asked when will the letter arrive he said it should come within a week.

I thought it was a penalty fare but just found out it was a penalty fine which ment I couldn't appeal it at all.

So on the day of the incident I immediately went to the local train ticket office and explained the situation to them they said they couldn't help me as it was a TI (travel/train incident) and adviced me to call them up and explain the situation and not to worry because it's not a criminal offence. I rang the northern company however it kept cutting me off when I wanted to reach the SMB as it was after 4 o'clock so I got through to someone else who said that line had closed and the letter will come within a week and adviced me to respond quickly. I also e-mailed the company on the day of the incidence because of how panicked I was with the situation I didn't get a response untill a month later on the 22nd of december which literally said "A letter has been sent". A week later it arrived on the 28th December which is when I e-mailed them saying my story and what happened they said that they can't take appeal as its a penalty fine and not penalty fare. I didn't know the difference so I did e-mail again asking about the administration fee as when I searched that up on the northern fare website it said that if you don't pay a fine within 21 days you would be charged an administration fee on top of the fare, so I did e-mail them saying I didn't get a letter within 21 days as this could have been because of royal mail strikes, I haven't got a response yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

 

[Sebastian O]

Hi thank you for the response I bought a train ticket in advance and there was a booking fee which shows I did want to pay for a ticket and I wasn't bunking the train (this is quite common in my area) but I didn't realise I had bought a child ticket because the last time I purchased a train ticket was when I was 15 (couple of months prior) and didn't know that the settings were automatic I just bought it on the app. The train guy scanned my QR code and then my friend he turned back to me and was saying how he was an officer and how he believes I shouldn't have a childs train ticket and he has the right to sommat. I panicked as he sounded serious so I said I was 15 (this was stupid of me I know but he was really intimidating) I admitted to him I wasn't and said I could pay the fare of an adult ticket or the fine. He abruptly said no you will get a letter home and you will have to respond I gave my details and asked when will the letter arrive he said it should come within a week.

I thought it was a penalty fare but just found out it was a penalty fine which ment I couldn't appeal it at all.

So on the day of the incident I immediately went to the local train ticket office and explained the situation to them they said they couldn't help me as it was a TI (travel/train incident) and adviced me to call them up and explain the situation and not to worry because it's not a criminal offence. I rang the northern company however it kept cutting me off when I wanted to reach the SMB as it was after 4 o'clock so I got through to someone else who said that line had closed and the letter will come within a week and adviced me to respond quickly. I also e-mailed the company on the day of the incidence because of how panicked I was with the situation I didn't get a response untill a month later on the 22nd of december which literally said "A letter has been sent". A week later it arrived on the 28th December which is when I e-mailed them saying my story and what happened they said that they can't take appeal as its a penalty fine and not penalty fare. I didn't know the difference so I did e-mail again asking about the administration fee as when I searched that up on the northern fare website it said that if you don't pay a fine within 21 days you would be charged an administration fee on top of the fare, so I did e-mail them saying I didn't get a letter within 21 days as this could have been because of royal mail strikes, I haven't got a response yet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

View attachment 126179

It’s honestly not even worth our or your time reading or trying to discuss this further.

Pay the fine, chalk it down to experience, and be happy you didn’t get sent to court!

 

[lae]

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It’s honestly not even worth our or your time reading or trying to discuss this further.

Pay the fine, chalk it down to experience, and be happy you didn’t get sent to court!

Thank you for the response after looking on these forums I realised how lucky I am. I did pay the fine as it's better then going to court and getting prosecuted for even more money. Sorry for the waste of time

 

[Hadders]

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Thank you for the response after looking on these forums I realised how lucky I am. I did pay the fine as it's better then going to court and getting prosecuted for even more money. Sorry for the waste of time

It's not a waste of time at all. I'm pleased you reached out to us. This forum is an invaluable resource for people to understand what happens when people get into difficulties on railway ticketing matters. We know it can be complicated and confusing so we try and simplify things for people who ask for our help.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Just in case you don't know - the 16-17 Saver card lets you maintain your Child Discount for 2 more years. You need a new railcard each year and buy a ticket with the railcard discount, not a child ticket.

16-17 Saver | Half Price Travel | Railcards - 16-17 Saver

50% off Rail Fares for just £35 with the 16-17 Saver Railcard. Enjoy great train journeys for less - Buy Now.

www.16-17saver.co.uk

 

[Haywain]

Just in case you don't know - the 16-17 Saver card lets you maintain your Child Discount for 2 more years.

Less than two years in the OP's case, as they are already 16 and it is valid up until the 18th birthday.

 

[lae]

Just in case you don't know - the 16-17 Saver card lets you maintain your Child Discount for 2 more years. You need a new railcard each year and buy a ticket with the railcard discount, not a child ticket.

https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/[/URL

http://Hi thank you for thw suggestion I was debating wether to get one or not

 

[greyman42]

I recently purchased a ticket and didn't realise I had bought a child's ticket and thought nothing of it as the man scanned my ticket and then my friend he then turned back to me and asked for my age I panicked and I said I was 15.

If you did not realise you had bought a child ticket, then why lie about your age?

 

[ChewChewTrain]

If you did not realise you had bought a child ticket, then why lie about your age?

I did wonder the same thing. Also, would they not have wondered why the ticket wasn’t a lot (something in the region of 100%) more expensive?

It’s somewhat amusing that so many requesting help here seem to believe that decent advice will be withheld unless the offence is made out to have been committed unintentionally. As though those who choose to frequent a forum like this would faint with horror at the very idea of someone deliberately underpaying.

In reality, if anything is going to make someone decide not to help, it’s being told things that are sufficiently implausible that they may feel their intelligence is being insulted and/or the person wanting help hasn’t learnt their lesson.

 

[lae]

I did wonder the same thing. Also, would they not have wondered why the ticket wasn’t a lot (something in the region of 100%) more expensive?

It’s somewhat amusing that so many requesting help here seem to believe that decent advice will be withheld unless the offence is made out to have been committed unintentionally. As though those who choose to frequent a forum like this would faint with horror at the very idea of someone deliberately underpaying.

In reality, if anything is going to make someone decide not to help, it’s being told things that are sufficiently implausible that they may feel their intelligence is being insulted and/or the person wanting help hasn’t learnt their lesson.

I didn't question the price because my friend was the same but hers was because she had a railcard which I didn't know. The ticket is only about 1.50 more not 100% but nearly double. I lied about my age because you don't ask for peoples age on the train unless your over the age of 16. I know this as once I got asked for my age while 15 and had to show a picture of my passport.

I have learnt my lesson from now on I ensure I buy my tickets for adult and double check them just in case as I have become really panicked now as it would become my second offence which could mean court. I did pay the fine I always had the intention to after they said appeal couldn't be claimed.

 

[some bloke]

If you did not realise you had bought a child ticket, then why lie about your age?

@lae said it was after a child's ticket was mentioned.

The train guy ...was saying...he believes I shouldn't have a childs train ticket and he has the right to sommat. I panicked as he sounded serious so I said I was 15

 

[Cowley]

OK. There’s probably not too much more to say here. Thanks for the advice everyone.
Hopefully this thread will be of use to other people in the future.