Christmas Card and general postal deliveries...a query raised.

[Gloster]

Thirty years ago a friend had a summer job at a Forestry Commision (or similar) ‘research station‘ in a remote part of Scotland, where once a week they had to send off a load of sheets to London for processing. They had to send them by Royal Mail, but to get the results back quickly enough for them to be checked, they were entrusted to a courier company which promised overnight delivery. However, the company couldn’t be bothered to send a van out to the sticks for one package, so they just stuck it in the post at the relevant sorting office. Usually it did arrive on time, but the company had charged a hefty fee for a delivery which they got somebody else to do.

 

[david1212]

....
I heard a rumour from a relative, who heard it from someone who read it on Facebook (so it's highly likely to be 100% true or 100% false!), that Royal Mail were sorting things received later first and then trying to catch up, rather than sorting things in order of receipt - so not surprising things posted mid-December haven't arrived yet whilst earlier and later things have. Presumably those posted earlier are at the back of the warehouse! Twitter is full of people who posted tracked parcels for delivery abroad in early December which still haven't left the UK.
....
Royal Mail have all but admitted that their priority is parcels, and have also seemingly remembered there is a reason for first and second class mail in ordering priorities...

A couple of weeks ago someone who works for the Royal Mail said that on here somewhere.

It's something to do with their performance being measured on the number of items delayed, not by how delayed they are.

Performance targets / measurement methods maybe one issue but equally if later collections get dumped carefully stacked on top of earlier ones logically the later ones will get processed first.

Again from a practical viewpoint several hundred cards / envelopes occupy the same space as one shoebox size parcel.

Their legal obligation - the Universal Service Obligation (USO) is to deliver to every address, once per day, six days per week. Ofcom is responsible for enforcing this.
....

But would removing the 6 days a week requirement make any significant difference (as in improvement) for customers? We get a lot of mail on Saturdays. So if the Saturday delivery was dropped, I would have to wait until around 12 midday on the following Monday.

Repeating an earlier post for those who work Monday - Friday for items larger than the letter box or to be signed for Saturday is the only day they can re-arrange delivery. For others on shift work they day they can re-arrange delivery will vary. If on a rota one day of Tuesday - Friday was cut for the first delivery would re-delivery still be made on the cut day? Think not just of reasonably dense population but rural areas too.
Even if nearby delivery offices are open far fewer hours then before March 2020. Similarly even if in a convenience store open say 7am - 11pm Monday - Saturday and 9am - 6pm Sunday many Post Office counters have reverted to basic hours.

The problem here is that other companies can get all the very profitable work (pre sorted business mail), then get the Royal Mail to do the hard work of delivering it to your letter box. This last bit being the labour intensive bit, and hence the most expensive part.

Really, the other delivery companies should be subject to the same Universal Service Obligation or pay more to Royal Mail to do the delivery.

These situations where Royal Mail do the last stage potentially need review, maybe excluded from the Universal Service Obligation as is and replaced by specific commitment(s) for the service level(s)? Or does the Royal Mail commitment only start from the day of receipt by them?

 

[Lost property]

For the OP....little sister, well ok, wee sis, now she's relocated to near Tignabruiach posted my b'day card in Sept well before the date. It took 2 weeks to arrive....yesterday, Christmas card arrived....again, two weeks after posting. However, posting the other way as it were, for her b'day in Nov and Christmas, both cards arrived after a couple of days.

No doubt somebody, somewhere, could conjure up some obscure conspiracy theory for the above timings.

 

[londonbridge]

I’m missing at least three cards, including one from a friend who messaged thanking me for the one I’d sent her (which she received Thursday 22nd) and asked if I’d got hers. When I said no she said she posted it December 9th. Still not here as I had no delivery today.

And still not here today, although I did get a letter from my energy supplier dated December 19th…… today I’ve posted a birthday card to a friend in Kentucky, whose birthday is Jan 8th, I usually post it in between Christmas and New Year, we’ll see when it turns up as the last one I sent (posted at the end of ‘21) turned up nine days late.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What has been the percentage increase in 1st and 2nd mail postage stamp prices over the last 10 year period?

 

[Starmill]

I received a Christmas card posted second class in just one day recently. However the box it was posted in and my address are both served by Manchester Mail Centre, so I suppose the item didn't have far to go.

 

[wilbers]

What has been the percentage increase in 1st and 2nd mail postage stamp prices over the last 10 year period?

2nd class 50p in 2012, 68p now, 36% increase [but note that 2011->2012 was the year with the massive % increase] https://2ndclassstamp.co.uk/second-class-stamp-price-history/

1st class 60p in 2012, 95p now, 58% increase.

 

[MotCO]

Mind you, the postal delays do help that age-old conundrum - what do you do when you receive a Christmas card close to Christmas from someone you have not sent a card to. You can send one after Christmas and blame the delays!

 

[londonbridge]

Being a Southern based Sunderland fan and still attending as many home games as I can manage, plus other regular visits to the North East, I finally got around to ordering a POP PAYG card from Nexus. Ordered on Wednesday 28th…….yep, it’s already arrived in todays post, but still no missing Xmas cards.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Being a Southern based Sunderland fan and still attending as many home games as I can manage, plus other regular visits to the North East, I finally got around to ordering a POP PAYG card from Nexus. Ordered on Wednesday 28th…….yep, it’s already arrived in todays post, but still no missing Xmas cards.

As mentioned by previous posters, and personal experience, they do appear to be dealing with the most recent post first then the older stuff whenever. Private Eye: posted 13th, due 14th, arrived 29th so only 15 days late. Yet a bank letter, printed 22nd, arrived at the same time along with some unfranked cards. Modern Railways is outstanding, published 12th not sure when mailed out.

I posted a batch of cards first class around the 5th, now had it confirmed that two are yet to arrive.

 

[Typhoon]

Being a Southern based Sunderland fan and still attending as many home games as I can manage, plus other regular visits to the North East, I finally got around to ordering a POP PAYG card from Nexus. Ordered on Wednesday 28th…….yep, it’s already arrived in todays post, but still no missing Xmas cards.

I received a letter posted on 28th Dec standard second class from Devon today. OK it was in a 'please do not bend envelope' with an address label but not from a business. I was impressed.

Some cards (read: a fair number) have to be hand sorted because the combination of dark pen on red envelopes makes it really difficult to OCR.

I only sent out a few cards in red envelopes but had not thought about that. Do you know if it would help if I stuck an address label on the front? The label would be handwritten but would be on a white background? It would be minimal effort and if it makes the job easier ...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I only sent out a few cards in red envelopes but had not thought about that. Do you know if it would help if I stuck an address label on the front? The label would be handwritten but would be on a white background? It would be minimal effort and if it makes the job easier ...

It definitely will, and also - make sure the postcode is the lowest line of anything on the envelope and that nothing else is on that line.

Printed labels would be even easier to read and are quite easy to generate; just put your address book into an Excel spreadsheet then use a mail merge printing onto labels ( all the standard sizes are already programmed into Word ).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I only sent out a few cards in red envelopes but had not thought about that. Do you know if it would help if I stuck an address label on the front? The label would be handwritten but would be on a white background? It would be minimal effort and if it makes the job easier ...

I have always thought that strongly coloured envelopes that are sold in the same outer as Christmas Cards should always have a white oblong section on the front in which address information can be entered.

For years now, I have used the sheets of self-adhesive labels that are printed with my greeting card database. I also print out a copy of these on blank paper and tick them when a return card is received.

 

[londonbridge]

I messaged my contact who works at the local mail delivery office asking about plans to clear the backlog and mentioning items posted recently being delivered before older items which are still missing, he said some letters are still at the main mail centre and haven’t even made it to the delivery office yet.

As to the other points regarding the colour of envelopes, I actually did Christmas temping at the mail centre a couple of times around ten-twelve years ago when I was in between jobs, I was on manual sorting and some of the envelopes were quite hard to read depending on the colour of ink used, and also whether they were handwritten in lower case or upper case/typed. I’ve got some good memories of my time there but they’re best left for another thread so as not to drag this one off topic.

 

[Typhoon]

It definitely will, and also - make sure the postcode is the lowest line of anything on the envelope and that nothing else is on that line.

Printed labels would be even easier to read and are quite easy to generate; just put your address book into an Excel spreadsheet then use a mail merge printing onto labels ( all the standard sizes are already programmed into Word ).

Thanks, very helpful. This is the sort of information that should be more widely known, possibly promoted by Royal Mail!

I don't use MS Word, but there is a 'labels' option that is similar to one I've used before. My reticence is down to my concern that labels may stick inside the printer (as happened once when I was working, had to be sent away), I've had had a look at the specs, FAQs and users questions and answers and I can't find that it will (there are an awful lot of 'no' answers for media) and paper goes through a very tight turn. I will ask, it would be useful if it but I don't send that many cards by post that it would be a killer if I bought a new printer.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't use MS Word, but there is a 'labels' option that is similar to one I've used before. My reticence is down to my concern that labels may stick inside the printer (as happened once when I was working, had to be sent away), I've had had a look at the specs, FAQs and users questions and answers and I can't find that it will (there are an awful lot of 'no' answers for media) and paper goes through a very tight turn. I will ask, it would be useful if it but I don't send that many cards by post that it would be a killer if I bought a new printer.

The labels that I have used for the last five years are the Rymans P16 sheets and I have never had any problems printing upon them with either of the Canon printers.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Agreed; as long as you stick to the mainstream brands for labels you should not have any issues with them sticking in the machine. Just always check that the corners aren't damaged in any way before you put the sheets in the tray; it'll usually be damaged corners that cause problems.

 

[Ediswan]

If you have Microsoft 365, 'Publisher' is very handy for labels. You can even tell it to print on what is left of a partially used sheet. Not something I have done myself, but colleagues did so on a daily basis.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

There is always a priority in how mail is processed - 1st Class is processed at the Mail Centre the afternoon/evening it comes in, 2nd is processed at the start of the shift the following day.

Apologies I am a bit late coming to this thread, but pre strikes Christmas delays it was common for a letter posted second class late afternoon to be delivered next day 400 miles away in Inverness. Obviously the application of the priority is selective.

Coming to the reason for looking at this thread, our final 2022 delivery on 31/12 included seven Christmas cards including several posted in the early days early of the month.

Even more intriguing, on 1st September we posted 7 postcards back to the UK in Cagliari, Sardinia. When we got home almost two weeks later we were not totally surprised to find none had yet reached home - we had after all received a postcard from Greece earlier in the year six weeks after our friends had arrived home, but as the weeks passed we concluded they had all got lost. Quite a surprise then when in early December cards were delivered to addresses in Lancashire and Inverness but still five were missing. Two of these turned up yesterday, in Gloucestershire and Cheshire and interestingly both had a San Marino postmark dated just over three weeks after posting in Sardinia (but no Sardinia postmark) but then took over three months to get here from San Marino (well off booked route in railway parlance), one day less than a total of four months in transit and still three have not yet been delivered.

Happy New Year everyone.

 

[Starmill]

Obviously the application of the priority is selective.

I think it's simpler than that. At the Mail Centre, once First Class items have all been sorted, Second Class ones start, the process won't just stop because the mail isn't First. Therefore although it is unknown in advance, if there are fewer First Class items in the network than expected, for example because of upstream delay or just because it was quiet that day, your Second Class items may be sorted just as quickly and therefore make the deadline for the departure of the lorry going your way that night the same as if it had been posted First. Items travelling between England and Scotland may make a train and then have an onward lorry journey to Inverness, or maybe even a plane if it is far enough. I agree with your point about second class items seemingly making it a very long way indeed sometimes in just a single night. Conversely once a plane, train or lorry is at capacity they will probably try to dispatch it as soon as possible. In that case it being First would make a far bigger difference because it would be much more likely to get a place on the vehicle.

 

[TPO]

Ah well.

I used to have high regard for the BBC News, I preferred it and recommended it, then I got disappointed.
I used to have similar high regard for Royal Mail and thought the same as you, once avoiding Amazon for quite some time (15 - 20 years ago) because they used Securicor Omega and couldn't promise RM delivery. Today I hope the Universal Service Obligation is instead contracted to Amazon Logistics - their vans are up my street several times per day, seven days per week whereas RM.....

I wish investors who fancied owning a worldwide parcel company would just buy a worldwide parcel company, or build their own, rather than buying and pivoting a different business!

It's all about price (and who benefits from the profits).

Yes, Amazon is generally good- IF the item qualifies for Prime. They also have an interesting approach when they are looking like failing to deliver to schedule- i.e. when it's in backlog, it's flagged as lost and they refund quickly (they encourage you to ask for a refund then re-order, not wait). When you re-order, it generally comes in usual fast timescale. Works where items are dispatched from Amazon or Fulfilled by Amazon, but other items more variable.

Couriers are variable, and the scale of service within them varies. I occsionally deal with a business supplier who uses DPD on a high-cost tariff to ship costly stuff- and it arrives to schedule, and it's not chucked over the fence as they MUST supply a photo of the package in the door of the address WITH THE RECIPIENT in it. That's unusual, and costly. There's lower scale red DPD then blue DPD is the lowest tier. Not dissimilar with UPS, DHL and FedEx. UPS in particular have a top-tier service where it's guaranteed before noon, everything else left is delivered after that so it's a bit pot luck, if they are busy that day you'll wait longer for an economy price parcel. Then there's the "lower cost" options.... EVRI, Yodel.

The Royal Mail fit into more the "high end to mid range" in my experience. There are different services too- Special Delivery Next Day or Before Noon. Tracked small parcel services- 48 hr tracked, 48hr untracked etc. You pays your money and you takes your choice. They do relatively well due to experienced staff- who the management want to casualise. Not a good move. They also have the universal service obligation whereas other couriers can- and do-focus on a niche- B2B, secure packages, international, home delivery etc. (DHL and FedEx are unparalleled for international delivery- but oh boy, it costs).

Not just Royal Mail with a backlog at the moment. I am awaiting some fruit trees, the supplier lifted them on 23 Dec, but the courier didn't even pick up until 28 Dec and courier has said they won't start to clear their Christmas backlogs until next week. (He packs them to last 6 weeks in transit, sensible chap).

Re your last sentence @Baxenden Bank, I sort of agree- but even more I wish that the govt had NOT privatised the Royal Mail but instead had put some competent and constructive (rather than aggressive) management in. Do we really want all workforces where everyone is on a zero-hours contract? We get backlogs when staff go ill or leave and cannot be replaced as it's hard work on zero-hours.

In short- delivery costs money. You can have reliable at a higher cost or cheaper at less cost. I just wish more retailers would offer more of a choice for shipping.

TPO

 

[crablab]

I think it's simpler than that. At the Mail Centre, once First Class items have all been sorted, Second Class ones start, the process won't just stop because the mail isn't First.

Exactly. Although it is somewhat complicated by shifts and inward/outward.

For example, on some shifts I'd work we'd be sorting generally outward mail (from a well known internet retailer). However, if inward mail had arrived late or hadn't been fully sorted by the previous shift then we'd be sorting that first so it could go out on trucks to DOs that morning. Sometimes we'd switch to doing outward and then back to inward, but clearing and the resetting the PSM is a bit of a pain so you want to avoid having to pull all the Yorks if you can help it!

 

[zero]

I haven't received any letters / large letters / Signed For since the first week of December, despite being shown the proofs of posting showing things were sent in late November/early Decemer, but I did receive some Tracked 24/48 and Special Delivery during December. These were delivered roughly 48h / 72h / 2 days after posting respectively. The senders claimed full refunds for the Specials as they were not sent on days the guarantee was suspended, and some of them senders didn't pay in the first place because they reused unfranked or fake stamps (also earlier this year, someone posted something to me with a fake stamp that had already been used at least once).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The senders claimed full refunds for the Specials as they were not sent on days the guarantee was suspended, and some of them senders didn't pay in the first place because they reused unfranked or fake stamps (also earlier this year, someone posted something to me with a fake stamp that had already been used at least once).

As a matter of interest, is there something in Royal Mail can detect a postage stamp that had already been used but had never been overfranked?

 

[Annetts key]

As a matter of interest, is there something in Royal Mail can detect a postage stamp that had already been used but had never been overfranked?

Are the new style stamps with ‘barcodes’ (as shown on the Royal Mail website) intended to help tackle this problem?

Screenshot of website:

 

[Gloster]

As a matter of interest, is there something in Royal Mail can detect a postage stamp that had already been used but had never been overfranked?

Yes, that is one of the main reasons for the new style stamps. The sorting machines can read the code from the dots and presumably compare it to a list of codes that have been used. (That is the gist of an article I read a while back.) Far too many people have either been reusing the stamps or making their own.

Is there a time limit for how long a stamp stays on the list of used ones.

 

[geoffk]

I'm still awaiting a few Christmas cards from people in my (retired) age group with whom I'm in contact only at Christmas. On the other hand I've had two birthday cards and my birthday isn't until Thursday! That seems to confirm that priority is being given to delivering the most recently posted items. Radio Times has been late arriving but at least I've had the new debit card and driving licence before the expiry of the old ones.

 

[43096]

Yes, that is one of the main reasons for the new style stamps. The sorting machines can read the code from the dots and presumably compare it to a list of codes that have been used. (That is the gist of an article I read a while back.) Far too many people have either been reusing the stamps or making their own.

Is there a time limit for how long a stamp stays on the list of used ones.

Presumably, then, they could track each item of mail as it goes through the system with the new barcodes? So you could tell if the sorting office at Dunny-on-the-Wold was utterly inefficient as your letter would show as being there for some time.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Royal Mail fit into more the "high end to mid range" in my experience. There are different services too- Special Delivery Next Day or Before Noon. Tracked small parcel services- 48 hr tracked, 48hr untracked etc. You pays your money and you takes your choice. They do relatively well due to experienced staff- who the management want to casualise. Not a good move. They also have the universal service obligation whereas other couriers can- and do-focus on a niche- B2B, secure packages, international, home delivery etc. (DHL and FedEx are unparalleled for international delivery- but oh boy, it costs).

The law says I can pay 95p for Royal Mail First Class and it should be delivered next day (in the vast majority of cases), not 15 days later! Forcing nudging people into paying substantially higher amounts for premium services (Special Delivery etc.) just to get their item delivered in a sensible time is not acceptable. Unfortunately the regulator doesn't seem to agree/care.

That is real law, set out in the Universal Service Obligation, not some woolly recommendation or a 'best efforts' guideline.

I encourage everone who has had post delayed or lost to claim, just as you would claim Delay/Repay for a rail journey. A book of free stamps is better than nothing.

 

[MotCO]

The law says I can pay 95p for Royal Mail First Class and it should be delivered next day (in the vast majority of cases), not 15 days later! Forcing nudging people into paying substantially higher amounts for premium services (Special Delivery etc.) just to get their item delivered in a sensible time is not acceptable. Unfortunately the regulator doesn't seem to agree/care.

That is real law, set out in the Universal Service Obligation, not some woolly recommendation or a 'best efforts' guideline.

I encourage everone who has had post delayed or lost to claim, just as you would claim Delay/Repay for a rail journey. A book of free stamps is better than nothing.

I asked this question back in post #19, but it seems as though it is an aspiration, not a legal commitment.