Booking Systems used by each operator

[OscarH]

Given all the other nonsense that has to be hard-coded, this seems almost reasonable, although of course a new class would be best. A lot of the fares data - and timetables for that matter (train length/formation, bikes, time zone, minimum change times at complex stations) - isn't fit for purpose IMO

I agree the fares and timetable data aren't really fit for purpose, but I don't see that as an argument for compounding the problem and requiring hard coding more, especially in a case like this where an extra class is virtually no effort, and the hard coding is significantly more effort and therefore cost at an industry-wide level - the DfT and RDG just shouldn't have allowed it

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I don't see that as an argument for compounding the problem

I agree - this one is relatively simple to implement, though, and it surprises me that all retailers didn't make the effort to support it

 

[Adam Williams]

I agree - this one is relatively simple to implement, though, and it surprises me that all retailers didn't make the effort to support it

It's not really a case of not making the effort, it's a case of priorities. Doing work to upsell an ""innovative"" product (first class without catering) which has been bodged into the fares data for a single TOC who can currently barely run 50% of their timetable has just not made the cut to date. If everyone offered standard premium, it might be a different story.

Right, well, it is still a reason to use another retailer because I want to buy a ticket, not email someone to beg they sell me a bike ticket whenever they get around to it and hope both human and bike tickets I want are still available then.

If you read my original message, you'd see that I noted it wasn't optimal - but it is something and better than what was available this time last year, which is why I spent the time working on it in the first place - as a precursor to a full implementation. Clearly folks will still find a reason to whine about anything though so I wonder why I bother, sometimes..

It'll be properly integrated into the retail process next year, I'm sure. The biggest blockers to this aren't really technical ones at present.

No need to "beg" the customer services staff to do anything, either, they tend to try to be pretty helpful.

neither would Trainsplit's cherrypicking of able-bodied motorists who drive to stations and only use simple tickets

Ah yes, definitely a deliberate business decision to screw over all the cyclists

 

[Haywain]

It's not really a case of not making the effort, it's a case of priorities. Doing work to upsell an ""innovative"" product (first class without catering) which has been bodged into the fares data for a single TOC who can currently barely run 50% of their timetable has just not made the cut to date. If everyone offered standard premium, it might be a different story.

The expense of developing that for a share of around 50 places per train on only one operator wouldn't stack up, would it? There's not much chance if any other operator adopting the Standard Premier model, after all.

 

[yorkie]

One retailer (you know the one ) and maybe others are considering the user-supplied Railcard and a few GroupSave discounts at once, so in those cases it's done already

There is a key difference here between considering that a passenger can be covered by multiple Railcards and actually switching Railcard en-route.

So my question is: would a split be offered that involves a customer using a Railcard for part of the journey and a GroupSave discount for another part of the journey?

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Right, well, it is still a reason to use another retailer ...

That's fine but you could be paying a hefty premium to do so!

 

[Adam Williams]

The expense of developing that for a share of around 50 places per train on only one operator wouldn't stack up, would it? There's not much chance if any other operator adopting the Standard Premier model, after all.

Yeah, agreed; I think it'd have quite a long payback time, even given a relatively lean team working on it. Could probably put together a bodge job in about 30 minutes (separate booking site which filters out non-std-premium tickets), but the user experience would be awful and it'd fall apart as soon as you had multiple legs where only some are on Avanti. It needs journey planner support if you're going to do it properly.

To get a realistic answer for payback time I suppose you'd need to model and predict the number of standard class passengers deciding to upgrade when they would've otherwise traveled in standard as well as the risk of passengers "downgrading" from first class if they don't want coffee and food and think that standard premium is a better deal. Both will have a large impact on the ticket value, and a much more modest effect on the commission.

 

[sheff1]

Can you show me how those websites will offer this:

I think you will find that this criticism applies to all websites and there is no practical way around it.

I am not sure what you are asking to see. Trainsplit does not include the SY concession in the available discount options whereas Northern & EMR do, so obviously I can't buy the Sheffield - Doncaster ticket I want on TS but I can on Northern & EMR.

 

[OscarH]

I am not sure what you are asking to see. Trainsplit does not include the SY concession in the available discount options whereas Northern & EMR do, so obviously I can't buy the Sheffield - Doncaster ticket I want on TS but I can on Northern & EMR.

Are there any other SY ones I've missed in the list below?

• SY Concession Senior
• SY Concession Disabled
• South Yorkshire 16-18 Travel Pass

If there are any other railcards missing do post them too and we can note them

I'm not promising we'll add them immediately, but I'll make a list internally, and hopefully we can add them where we're allowed reasonably soon

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm not promising we'll add them immediately, but I'll make a list internally,

Hope you're checking it twice, too late?

 

[OscarH]

Hope you're checking it twice, too late?

We'll make sure to work out which railcards are naughty and nice

 

[sheff1]

Are there any other SY ones I've missed in the list below?

• SY Concession Senior
• SY Concession Disabled
• South Yorkshire 16-18 Travel Pass

If there are any other railcards missing do post them too and we can note them

I'm not promising we'll add them immediately, but I'll make a list internally, and hopefully we can add them where we're allowed reasonably soon

Apparently there is a Student Pass, no idea what discount it gives though. If you are considering adding things I note that EMR also includes West Yorkshire Concession options.

As an aside, LNER has the WYorks options on the TVMs at Doncaster but not the SYorks ones, even though Doncaster is in SYorks.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Apparently there is a Student Pass, no idea what discount it gives though. If you are considering adding things I note that EMR also includes West Yorkshire Concession options.

As an aside, LNER has the WYorks options on the TVMs at Doncaster but not the SYorks ones, even though Doncaster is in SYorks.

There's a reason for that although I can't currently remember what it is. Because we sell tickets from anywhere to anywhere on the TVMs we'll have most Railcards on there.

 

[Benjwri]

but neither would Trainsplit's cherrypicking of able-bodied motorists who drive to stations and only use simple tickets

If you book in advance, which you pretty much have to do with bikes, you will be fine getting customer service to add it. I'd much rather ask them, and politely ask to be sat near my bike, rather than use a TOC automated implementation, which puts my bike in at the other end of a 9 car train to my seat reservation, then fails the booking process but doesn't release the bike reservation. I have unfortunately accidentally booked an entire IET with these ghost bookings once when GWR's website was having a bad day.

I'm sure you're aware, but I don't think TrainSplit is the greatest barrier to cyclists anyways, and I would be very surprised if you can get your bike in your reserved space on any TOC.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I have unfortunately accidentally booked an entire IET with these ghost bookings once when GWR's website was having a bad day.

Did you realise and have to call customer service or did you just enjoy knowing that all the bike space would be yours?

 

[Benjwri]

Did you realise and have to call customer service or did you just enjoy knowing that all the bike space would be yours?

I was attempting to book about 2 hours before the service left, and attempted to contact their customer service as I would've quite liked a bike reservation given past experiences of being removed from services even with a reservation, but they didn't get back to me before the service left.

 

[ashkeba]

I'm sure you're aware, but I don't think TrainSplit is the greatest barrier to cyclists anyways, and I would be very surprised if you can get your bike in your reserved space on any TOC.

No, indeed. Trainsplit are just another small obstacle to sustainable transport, not the biggest.

No problem fitting bikes in the spaces on class 745, once you find someone willing to sell you the tickets! The railway should be compelled to fix the class 8xx fake spaces.

 

[yorkie]

I am not sure what you are asking to see. Trainsplit does not include the SY concession in the available discount options whereas Northern & EMR do, so obviously I can't buy the Sheffield - Doncaster ticket I want on TS but I can on Northern & EMR.

So basically for journeys such as Sheffield to London via Doncaster, or Sheffield to Sutton Coldfield, you rely on your knowledge and manually ask for a specific combination of tickets from Sheffield ticket office. You are comparing that manual process to the splits offered for a through journey query on Trainsplit. Hardly a fair comparison, given anyone who simply asks for the journey at the ticket office would almost certainly (and indeed according to the rules, should) be sold a through fare, at greater cost. This is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[py_megapixel]

So basically for journeys such as Sheffield to London via Doncaster, or Sheffield to Sutton Coldfield, you rely on your knowledge and manually ask for a specific combination of tickets from Sheffield ticket office. You are comparing that manual process to the splits offered for a through journey query on Trainsplit. Hardly a fair comparison, given anyone who simply asks for the journey at the ticket office would almost certainly (and indeed according to the rules, should) be sold a through fare, at greater cost. This is comparing apples and oranges.

No ticket office involved - the south yorkshire concession can be entered as a discount on the Northern website

 

[Cantab26]

No ticket office involved - the south yorkshire concession can be entered as a discount on the Northern website

I think the point that @yorkie is trying to make is that there is no website which will allow you to purchase two tickets with a different discount on each one as a single ’journey’ - even on Northern’s website the two tickets would have to be put through as two separate journeys.

In this sense, if Trainsplit were to begin retailing fares with the SY Concession discount it would be no worse than any alternative website in this regard.

 

[yorkie]

No ticket office involved - the south yorkshire concession can be entered as a discount on the Northern website

I think @sheff1 was making the point that certain journeys he made were cheaper if bought from ticket offices, but my point still stands in respect of websites.

No website is going to offer, and ticket offices are unlikely (and generally not allowed) to offer a combination such as Sheffield to Doncaster SY concession discount + Doncaster to London Senior discount, or Derbyshire Wayfarer plus Burton on Trent to Sutton Coldfield (or wherever), which appeared to be the examples being given where Trainsplit was ostensibly being beaten by other providers.

 

[superkopite]

With TrainSplit you get a seat selector regardless of the operator so you don’t have to worry about automatic reservations! If you choose not to use them, fair enough, but the option is certainly there and it offers better reservation selections than any TOC website.

Indeed, you even get reservation options for services that don't have reservable seating

 

[sheff1]

So you rely on your knowledge and You are comparing that manual process to the splits offered for a through journey query on Trainsplit. Hardly a fair comparison, given anyone who simply asks for the journey at the ticket office would almost certainly (and indeed according to the rules, should) be sold a through fare, at greater cost. This is comparing apples and oranges.

No, what I was doing was answering a question raised by huntergreed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2022 ==

In this sense, if Trainsplit were to begin retailing fares with the SY Concession discount it would be no worse than any alternative website in this regard.

Exactly.

 

[yorkie]

@sheff1 you originally said:

If I bought split tickets for my most frequent split journeys on Trainsplit rather at the station I would always pay more ! In one case you can’t buy the ticket from any online retailer, so not a Trainsplit issue, but for the other some TOCs do sell the ticket on line.

But it sounds like you are comparing manual splits, where you state exactly what you want (having already gained the knowledge yourself), with the automated process of Trainsplit.

This is not a fair comparison .

You didn't make it clear exactly what your comparison was from the outset, which would have made it a lot easier to understand exactly what you were comparing.