I believe it's twice, then the cardholder has to ring TfL to explain themselves and they get one more chance. A third time and that card will be permanently blocked from CPAY usage.
Thanks for that, all we see is a green tick or red Cross!
What's Cpay? I googled it but it comes up with Crypto, which I don't think is the right answer.
Contactless payment cards.
Thanks
They're a purpose build card device, they have a slot for 8nserting cards too and a chunky yellow case
What improvements are there for RID 2 compared to RID 1?
Out of the case, yes. Although they should be being used in the bright yellow case. They are Android based with a data connection.
The main one is that they're Android-based, rather than proprietary (and no longer supported by the original supplier), so should be capable of at least 4G connectivity (and presumably Wi-Fi) rather than the 3G of the original devices.
They're also much more user friendly. The RID touch screen was small and not very responsive. The RID2 is much easier to read and use with the bigger screen. Despite that it's still lighter. The functionality is the same for now though, although there is talk of the RID2 being able to read E Tickets too eventually.
So that means RPIs currently need 2 devices?
Yes, neither the RID or the RID2 can read e tickets. Not many TOC staff were issued with RIDs though, although a lot more are to be issued with RID2s. Generally TOCs have one device for issuing tickets, reading ITSO smartcards and scanning E Tickrts. It's Oyster/ Contactless that can only be inspected with the RID/ RID2.
I actually don't know as depots outside of the London-Reading corridor never got issued with RID 1!
GWR seem to have separate devices for all three, having to use a phone to read smart cards (Always with a sigh), and they seem to have some kind of small camera connected to the phone to read e tickets, which they just listen to the noise to se if it's valid. When they've needed to check something before they took out their phone where they could see my ticket details.
To be fair to LU management, they are currently working with very limited resources, and they have very high demands on those resources given the economic and financial climate at Transport for London. It is very difficult to see how there is really anything in return for them from spending time and effort trying to get this sorted out - the benefits would all be due to other operators and the costs to LU. Well and good for people at TOCs to complain about LU management but one wonders how they'd see it if the situation were reversed. That's before we consider the corporate view in LU that 2D codes are fundamentally the wrong solution to the problem.
So being able to eradicate the costs of maintaining the CCST mechanism on every gate wouldn't yield any cost savings?
It’d be interesting to know just how great those savings might be given that they’d still need to be able to maintain the gates. In their shoes, I might well be cautious about that business case especially if I also believed that the chosen answer is wrong in principle and going to cause operational problems.
E tickets can be read using the TTK (phone) device its self or by using an opticon scanner which is linked to the device, though when using the opticon scanner you should also be checking what comes up on the screen too not just what noise it makes!
They're not linked. Long term they'll get those benefits regardless of whether they are going to accept etickets.
Only a very tiny number of barcoded tickets are sold on routes through TfL-managed gatelines so it's difficult to see how this would really make any difference.
Gateline throughput is so heavily reduced when people are using paper roll tickets or printed etickets that it seems unlikely that they'll tolerate them at major Underground gates ever.
Indeed. Oyster and Contactless are substantially faster than ITSO for a reason.
I think the only way to do it is to have dedicated gates for eTickets and careful signage (which people will ignore of course). I don't think it's reasonable for TfL to block eTicket availability for half the south east though, a solution needs to be found. At the same time, there needs to be a push to enable as much as possible on ITSO including cross-London. That, and the roll-out of PAYG could reduce the demand for eTickets for many journeys.
The most likely outcome if RDG go down that route though is that TfL will simply negotiate the termination of the Travelcard Agreement. This would remove the problem entirely by withdrawing all of the integrated products. This may happen anyway once Pay as you Go is extended.
Project Oval (ie extension of Contactless) is a solution for half the South East, possibly the more relevant half.
I don't think anyone with any knowledge of the problem has ever suggested Travelcards on eTickets but TfL are holding up the elimination of 70s technology on the mainline for many TOCs.
Not for long distance cross London travellers it isn't
Many long distance cross London travellers already don't use through tickets because of the way fares are priced. When the quota availability on the long distance train dictates the cost of the local connection into London, it often isn't worth having a through ticket, and through advances have not been priced as competitively for the last five years or so.
Ok my daily figures must be incorrrect then.
