Booking Systems used by each operator

[Huntergreed]

Would a subscription style system work for trainsplit? Seeing as thousands of people are happy to pay for a Railcard yearly for the savings incurred, I certainly would be happy to pay a small monthly/yearly subscription fee, on top of them earning any commission from each sale, to support them!

Other than that, or hiding the splits, I cannot think of a viable solution to the loophole.

I certainly wouldn’t use them if the splits were hidden as knowing where I can break my journey and the details of flexibility is really important for me!

It’s a shame they aren’t better used to be honest, they provide a fantastic service and need more recognition amongst the general public!

 

[markymark2000]

But it isn’t even cheaper! Literally the only difference is you’re using the website and deliberately refusing to give it any commission on the sale! If you can find an example where trainsplit offers an itinerary that isn’t cheaper, I recommend highlighting it here and I’m sure it would be quickly fixed!

It's cheaper to me. £45 via them or £30 direct. That's an additional saving of £15.

As for giving examples, why would I voluntarily give up examples where money can be saved so that other companies can exploit it for personal gain. That said, I can confirm that one of the splits that I originally had saved money on, is still in place. The saving is slightly lower now though than it was. Trainsplit offers an A-C-D ticket. I can take £1 off that now (was higher as I say. "-" being a split) by doing A-B-C-D. Also cheaper doing it A-B-D.

I'm glad I got onto this discussion, I'm not finding more and more ways to get cheaper tickets than offered by the split ticketing companies.

Why shouldn't they charge for offering a value-added service of working out the splits?

They can charge what they want. In the same way that if I find those fees too high, I am free to go elsewhere to get the same product for cheaper. The risk for them is if they charge too much, people go elsewhere to get it cheaper. That's what I have done.

I certainly have never, that I recall, gone into a shop, used their professional services to determine what product was right for me, then bought it elsewhere.

The one exception is opticians, but then they charge for their professional services (i.e. an eye test) separately, the old "free eye test because you'll probably buy from us" is barely a thing any more.

You're a small exception then. There are shed loads of examples where 90% of people do the same or similar things. It's just you don't think of it in the same way. I'd be here all week listing all examples.

 

[Watershed]

I mean, people complain about train operators getting the 2% profit in management contracts yet happily let 3rd parties take 4.5% commission from their ticket sales. Money kept within the railways in TOCs could fund service enhancements or wage rises.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The 2% odd that TOCs get is, as you say, pure profit. You can't compare that to the amount retailers receive in commission (i.e. revenue), which has to pay for all the fixed costs of operating their business, as well as the variable costs of issuing tickets, taking payments etc. I would be amazed if there is any retailer that could make a 2% profit margin without charging a fee or receiving a subsidy.

It's also not correct to suggest that all of this 4.5% commission would be kept within the railways if third party retailers didn't exist. All TOC websites are operated/created by third party retailers or suppliers; there are various arrangements in place but they all ultimately involve the TOC paying the supplier something for providing and supporting the software, and/or something per transaction, and/or a percentage of the sales. Part of the subsidy that the TOCs receive is to cover these costs.

Now there's clearly an argument to be made that the subsidy paid to TOCs, which they in turn pay to their website/app suppliers, would be lower if there were just one supplier to the entire industry - or that the TOCs might be able to do this cheaper in-house. But that is a separate argument from whether or not third party retailers should exist.

 

[danm14]

Would a subscription style system work for trainsplit? Seeing as thousands of people are happy to pay for a Railcard yearly for the savings incurred, I certainly would be happy to pay a small monthly/yearly subscription fee, on top of them earning any commission from each sale, to support them!

I'm not sure how many people would be willing to do that outside of very regular travellers who are already very familiar with split ticketing.

A Railcard offers a set discount on a set range of tickets.

A TrainSplit subscription might or might not give you a discount on a given journey, and if there is a discount it could be anything from a few pennies in exchange for considerable loss of validity, to tens or hundreds of pounds with no loss of validity.

That would, I think, put a lot of people off.

 

[Cdd89]

I might be in the minority but I am not a fan of the “share of saving” model, especially when the user is already aware of a common split. For example, if a direct fare is £100, a known split is £50, and a specialised split is £40, it stings to be charged commission based on a £60 saving rather than a £10 saving.

I’d therefore personally rather pay a flat percentage on all sales, regardless of whether a split was found (which is TTL’s model). Of course, then people would simply book direct tickets elsewhere, which rather proves the points made in response to the OP.

Would a subscription style system work for trainsplit? Seeing as thousands of people are happy to pay for a Railcard yearly for the savings incurred, I certainly would be happy to pay a small monthly/yearly subscription fee, on top of them earning any commission from each sale, to support them!

I would also like to see this. However I suspect the problem is that the median pricing would inevitably lose money on the heaviest users (compared to what they currently pay in commissions), and lose business on the lightest users (who don’t sign up because they wouldn’t save enough to pay e.g. £20/year).

 

[Cantab26]

I expect I am going to regret sticking my head above the parapet in this thread…

If you don't think split ticket sites deserve any share of savings, why not at least put each ticket in the basket on the same site manually? At least then the website gets something back for what you gained from it

If it was just about evading the share of savings, why don't you add each ticket to the basket on the same site? I'd like to see you answer that question rather than duck out of it

Firstly, I hadn't thought of redoing it all via the split ticket site. Secondly though, I'd much rather do things direct. That's my choice, I go direct for almost everything, doesn't mean that you can't check out deals elsewhere.

The argument for booking direct here is that bookings are in one place as I have preferred LNER as I have said. Might as well keep things in one place.

So, in other words, even though you could get the tickets for the same price, you still choose not to and deny the ticket splitting website commission notwithstanding the fact that you have used its service - provided after effort and expense have been devoted by its developers.

Your “argument for booking direct” also doesn’t stack up:

1. if you only buy through LNER then you are not actually booking direct with each operator you use;
2. Bookings can equally well be ‘kept in one place’ on a non-TOC website.

I've beat split ticketing sites a good few times.

I have used them, not regularly. There's a big difference. I think I've gone through them 4 times or so in my life and of that, 2 of the times were to check a very long distance journey which included 4 train operators. That's it.

I wouldn’t generally characterise “4 times or so” as being “a good few times”, so which is it?

In light of the next quote, I infer that you are deliberately dissembling on this point and use ticket splitting sites (for research purposes) far more than you have admitted.

I use the ticket split sites sometimes to find a cheaper fare but then I go and book the journeys via LNER (as they are my preferred site).

I think this is really the crux of the matter and the OP’s attitude:

“Most of the split ticketing sites charge you a percentage of savings and so I'd much rather put it all through LNER and save even more money by just getting tickets at the face value without fees.”​

​

The OP knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Highly cynical and sharp practice.

Utter charlatan!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I might be in the minority but I am not a fan of the “share of saving” model, especially when the user is already aware of a common split.

If you know a split or worked one out yourself, just add the elements to the basket separately and the fee is not charged. Not having to do so is part of the reason for the fee.

 

[py_megapixel]

If you know a split or worked one out yourself, just add the elements to the basket separately and the fee is not charged. Not having to do so is part of the reason for the fee.

I think the point is that if Trainsplit can find a more obscure and better split than the one you already knew, the share of savings is based on the entire saving compared to the non-split fare, not the extra saving compared to what you already knew. This is a valid criticism of the model, but it's not clear how it could be avoided.

 

[ashkeba]

I think the point is that if Trainsplit can find a more obscure and better split than the one you already knew, the share of savings is based on the entire saving compared to the non-split fare, not the extra saving compared to what you already knew. This is a valid criticism of the model, but it's not clear how it could be avoided.

A 'split at' field in the search might help, but it's not the whole answer.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd argue it's more on par with shopping around.

It’s more like browsing and reading the books in a small bookstore and then finding the cheapest copy on Amazon instead. Poor form.

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But it isn’t even cheaper! Literally the only difference is you’re using the website and deliberately refusing to give it any commission on the sale! If you can find an example where trainsplit offers an itinerary that isn’t cheaper, I recommend highlighting it here and I’m sure it would be quickly fixed!

Oh no you don’t understand, he’s helping the plucky underdog train operating companies by making sure the splitting sites which provide him with an invaluable service can’t get a sliver of the fare for their work.

 

[Dai Corner]

Oh no you don’t understand, he’s helping the plucky underdog train operating companies by making sure the splitting sites which provide him with an invaluable service can’t get a sliver of the fare for their work.

The Government get the revenue these days, don't they?

 

[Huntergreed]

The Government get the revenue these days, don't they?

A lot of it, but a small commission from each sale (more so with e-Tickets) is given to the retailer. By not using the splitting site, this denies them this, thus meaning they are unable to make any financial income to support their (very high!) running costs.

Trainsplit also charge a “share of saving” fee on top of the fare, but this can be expensive and is easily avoided by adding individual tickets to the basket separately (which means that at least they get the retailer commission from the sale! Using a TOC sends it straight to them and deprives Trainsplit of anything despite providing a very useful service)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Do some TOCs that offer reservations
a) Not have a specific seat picker (as in one similar to Avanti's) on their own site
b) Have this available on the secondary sites
To me that feels like the only reason I'd use a secondary site
I used trainline once because I was told it was better but all they did was add a booking fee, overall making it more expensive and more complicated than buying through any TOC (non-split off peak return, not willing to split, wanted to go fast)
Now when I travel by Avanti I always book through Avanti for their seat picker

 

[yorkie]

Do some TOCs that offer reservations
a) Not have a specific seat picker (as in one similar to Avanti's) on their own site
b) Have this available on the secondary sites
To me that feels like the only reason I'd use a secondary site
I used trainline once because I was told it was better but all they did was add a booking fee, overall making it more expensive and more complicated than buying through any TOC (non-split off peak return, not willing to split, wanted to go fast)
Now when I travel by Avanti I always book through Avanti for their seat picker

Trainsplit has a seat selector which works for all companies.

If you only travel with Avanti and are happy to pay a premium where the through fare costs more than the sum of the parts, you may as well stick with Avanti.

But if you use any other operators and/or if you want to benefit from potential savings of split ticketing, you may want to switch.

 

[Huntergreed]

Do some TOCs that offer reservations
a) Not have a specific seat picker (as in one similar to Avanti's) on their own site

Some have seat selectors for their own services (LNER and Avanti, for instance) but no TOC website has a seat selector for all TOC’s, only their own (limiting your choices for a multi-operator journey!)

b) Have this available on the secondary sites

TrainSplit has a seat selector for all operators that allow selecting reservations. Definitely a huge benefit!

To me that feels like the only reason I'd use a secondary site
I used trainline once because I was told it was better but all they did was add a booking fee, overall making it more expensive and more complicated than buying through any TOC (non-split off peak return, not willing to split, wanted to go fast)
Now when I travel by Avanti I always book through Avanti for their seat picker

TrainSplit offers this, as well as reduced fares compared to TOC websites. Feel free to book with Avanti if you want to limit your ability to reserve across TOC’s and wish to pay more than you need. Otherwise - I highly recommend TrainSplit!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I can tell you that Trainsplit and Avanti were offering the same price for the same 2 off-peak return routes I tested (which by chance are the next two long-distance routes I'll probably take). When they both give me the same price I'm probably gonna go for the Avanti method I'm familiar with compared to an unfamiliar one.
I don't accept Advanced tickets because I don't like them, but I think this is why I don't see anything cheaper.

For my short commute I use Northern flexi tickets and I doubt there's any discount available there considering 8 anytime returns for the price of 7 (and railcard).

 

[TUC]

why? that means many journeys costing a premium, and often a loss of the ability to use a seat selector.

Exactly. People use 3rd party sites for buying many other items. What is any different about rail travel?

 

[paninaro]

Trainsplit has a seat selector which works for all companies.

If you only travel with Avanti and are happy to pay a premium where the through fare costs more than the sum of the parts, you may as well stick with Avanti.

Does Trainsplit offer an option to *not* split a fare? I'd like to select seats but also want to make sure i have the same reservation for the whole journey (I'm normally traveling with children and luggage). Last time I looked it said it couldn't guarantee you'd get the same seats for a split journey, although they'd make best efforts

 

[bakerstreet]

Does Trainsplit offer an option to *not* split a fare? I'd like to select seats but also want to make sure i have the same reservation for the whole journey (I'm normally traveling with children and luggage). Last time I looked it said it couldn't guarantee you'd get the same seats for a split journey, although they'd make best efforts

Yes, I’ve used this feature before:

 

[paninaro]

Yes, I’ve used this feature before:

View attachment 125713

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Thanks very much!

 

[jackot]

I can tell you that Trainsplit and Avanti were offering the same price for the same 2 off-peak return routes I tested (which by chance are the next two long-distance routes I'll probably take). When they both give me the same price I'm probably gonna go for the Avanti method I'm familiar with compared to an unfamiliar one.
I don't accept Advanced tickets because I don't like them, but I think this is why I don't see anything cheaper.

Split ticketing is not cheaper on a lot of routes, so don't expect the prices on Trainsplit to always be lower compared with Avanti. However, I tend to just use Trainsplit simply on the off chance that there might be a saving to be made, and if not they don't charge booking fees either - so there is nothing to lose as long as you are happy using the website, which i can understand you might not be.

 

[Huntergreed]

Split ticketing is not cheaper on a lot of routes, so don't expect the prices on Trainsplit to always be lower compared with Avanti. However, I tend to just use Trainsplit simply on the off chance that there might be a saving to be made, and if not they don't charge booking fees either - so there is nothing to lose as long as you are happy using the website, which i can understand you might not be.

Indeed. With trainsplit, you have no guarantee you’ll be getting a cheaper fare (but you often do!), but you never pay any higher than the normal fare, so it’s a win-win really!

When you say you may not be happy using the website, do you mean it’s not particularly accessible or is too complex? I always find it easy to use!

 

[Willie Bee]

How far ahead can you book tickets ... seems only about 3 months with LNER

 

[Huntergreed]

How far ahead can you book tickets ... seems only about 3 months with LNER

LNER seem to go only up to 10th March (they only allow you to book for dates where their timetable has been confirmed, I believe)

 

[jackot]

Indeed. With trainsplit, you have no guarantee you’ll be getting a cheaper fare (but you often do!), but you never pay any higher than the normal fare, so it’s a win-win really!

When you say you may not be happy using the website, do you mean it’s not particularly accessible or is too complex? I always find it easy to use!

I find it easy to use 99% of the time, more so than almost all TOC websites. I was just alluding to the fact the poster said they prefer Avanti as it is more familiar.

I think Trainsplits' biggest hardship is encouraging certain people (think the older generation or those who don't travel by rail much) to use an unfamiliar website with multiple tickets that is not tied to a certain TOC or trustworthy brand. However, with such good customer service and the opportunity to save it seems irrational that many people choose to stick with Trainline and the likes (even if trainline have tried to integrate split ticketing to some extent).

 

[Haywain]

LNER seem to go only up to 10th March (they only allow you to book for dates where their timetable has been confirmed, I believe)

LNER bookings are open beyond Easter on the LNER website.

 

[Adam Williams]

There are some tickets where ticket splitting sites can't do, for example, bicycle reservations

It's not quite as slick as booking at the same time as your ticket, but I think it's possible you'd find that TrainSplit's customer service (it's nice to see it described as superior!) may be quite a bit more helpful than you'd expect with bike reservations if you shoot them a message

 

[sheff1]

Indeed. With trainsplit, you have no guarantee you’ll be getting a cheaper fare (but you often do!), but you never pay any higher than the normal fare, so it’s a win-win really!

If I bought split tickets for my most frequent split journeys on Trainsplit rather at the station I would always pay more ! In one case you can’t buy the ticket from any online retailer, so not a Trainsplit issue, but for the other some TOCs do sell the ticket on line.

 

[Huntergreed]

If I bought split tickets for my most frequent split journeys on Trainsplit rather at the station I would always pay more ! In one case you can’t buy the ticket from any online retailer, so not a Trainsplit issue, but for the other some TOCs do sell the ticket on line.

Do you mind sharing what journey this is? I’m sure the excellent trainsplit staff would be keen to update their system to include this for yourself and future users.

I have to admit I just used the Avanti website for a booking, as I realised you can’t book Standard Premium Tickets on TrainSplit. Unfortunate, but necessary on this occasion (although I believe Avanti have made it so you can only book these through their booking engine).

Sadly the journey probably could have been done with a split slightly cheaper, but I really wanted to ensure a good seat as I can imagine Avanti will be very busy indeed tomorrow!

 

[alistairlees]

I have to admit I just used the Avanti website for a booking, as I realised you can’t book Standard Premium Tickets on TrainSplit. Unfortunate, but necessary on this occasion (although I believe Avanti have made it so you can only book these through their booking engine).

What makes you say this? So far as I know they are available to retail anywhere.