Booking Systems used by each operator

[markymark2000]

Does anyone have a list of which TOCs use which booking systems?

I know a lot of people say they don't like certain websites as they are user unfriendly but it's hard to suggest alternatives when many use the same systems but as a white label. So, I thought this list could help people to find a site which works best for them.

The list is meant to be purely for train operators (I'd rather encourage people to use TOCs rather than 3rd parts sites) and I have excluded any TOC who doesn't sell tickets for outside of their network (Merseyrail and Heathrow Express for example)


Guest Bookings - I've included this as some people prefer not to sign up to loads of sites and as such guest bookings mean that they can just buy a ticket and not have to create accounts.

Collection reference for every split journey - this is included as it's a bugbear. I know it's something Northern do for collection tickets. If you book journey 1 and journey 2 tickets, whether this be split tickets or journeys on different days, whatever it is, even when booked in a single transaction, they give you a different collection reference and booking email. It meant 1 journey got 5 or so emails and collection references. Needless to say, I wasn't best pleased. LNER, you book an A-B journey on day 1 and C-D journey on another day (of course you have to 'add another journey'), these all come from LNER in a single email, single collection reference.


If anyone thinks of any other columns to add which would be useful for others to see as a comparison, ill happily do so.

Hopefully some people find this list helpful

TOC	Booking System Used	Guest bookings	Collection reference for every journey
Avanti West Coast	PICO4UK	No
C2C	PICO4UK	Yes
Chiltern Railway	Silverrail	Yes
CrossCountry	Trainline	Yes
East Midlands Railway	Trainline	Yes	Yes
GTR	On Track Retail	Yes
Grand Central	Silverrail	Yes
Greater Anglia	Trainline	Yes
Great Western Railway	Worldline	No
Hull Trains	Worldine	No
LNER	Vix	No	No
Lumo	Worldline	No
Northern	Trainline	Yes	Yes
Scotrail	Trainline	Yes
Southeastern	On Track Retail	Yes
South Western Railway	Worldline	No
TransPennine Express	Worldline	No
Transport for Wales	Silverrail	Yes
West Midlands Trains	Trainline	Yes

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe GWR (and all the other FirstGroup TOCs bar Avanti, though not 100% sure on Lumo) uses the Worldline "mixing desk" system, albeit with a different "shell" on top of it unless you edit the URL to get the original version.

West Midlands Trains (that's the TOC's name) does indeed use a Trainline derivative.

 

[WizCastro197]

I could've sworn South Western accepted Guest Bookings? What system does Southern/Southeastern/Thameslink use?

I presume question marks suggest you are unsure, for which EMR & CrossCountry do use a Trainline type system.

Chiltern's doesn't look like a similar system to others who may use Trainline so they probably don't, but someone else may additionally have to verify.

 

[py_megapixel]

What system does Southern/Southeastern/Thameslink use?

It's a system called OnTrack Retail, which is a joint venture between the Go-Ahead Group and a company called Assertis which makes (unsurprisingly) railway ticketing software. Used by all GTR brands and Southeastern (and previously London Midland when that was run by Govia)

Childtern's doesn't look like a similar system to others who may use Trainline, but someone else may additionally have to verify.

It's an Assertis system, but not the same as OnTrack (see https://assertis.co.uk/client-arriva.html). I believe it's called Assertis WebTIS.

I presume question marks suggest you are unsure, for which EMR & CrossCountry do use a Trainline type system.

ScotRail is also definitely Trainline.


Additionally:
Avanti West Coast and c2c - Trenitalia Pico4UK

TPE, GWR, Hull Trains, Lumo, SWR - Wordline Mixing Deck

 

[alistairlees]

Hmmm

PICO4UK is used by Avanti and c2c

Silverrail is used by grand central, tfw and Chiltern railways

Worldline is use by GWR, SWR, tpe, Hull Trains and Lumo

On Track Retail is used by GTRand southeastern

Trainline is used by greater Anglia, CrossCountry, northern, ScotRail, EMR and LNWR / WMT

Vix is used by LNER

 

[yorkie]

..(I'd rather encourage people to use TOCs rather than 3rd parts sites) ...

why? that means many journeys costing a premium, and often a loss of the ability to use a seat selector.

 

[Huntergreed]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

My website of choice is Trainsplit, but others are available (any of which will cost you significantly less than TOC's on many journeys!)

The only reason I would understand someone wanting to use a different site would either be to gain loyalty points or for a TOC-specific fare only available through that website (Sale fares for instance)

 

[WizCastro197]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

My website of choice is Trainsplit, but others are available (any of which will cost you significantly less than TOC's on many journeys!)

Honestly, average travellers won’t be splitting tickets, I’m sure they’d rather just have a single ticket, which to them will reduce stress of ‘do I have the wrong ticket’ or ‘Oh No I’ve lost my ticket (s)’

 

[Huntergreed]

Honestly, average travellers won’t be splitting tickets, I’m sure they’d rather just have a single ticket, which to them will reduce stress of ‘do I have the wrong ticket’ or ‘Oh No I’ve lost my ticket (s)’

I know trainsplit offer a single PDF with all e-tickets enclosed (not sure about other splitting sites), so in essence you have a 'single ticket', even if you do have to scroll down to a different page.

It's no more stress, but is cheaper! I still can't fathom why these websites aren't infinitely more popular than TOC websites.

Even worse than TOC websites though is Trainline, which also charges a booking fee. Why anyone ever uses that is beyond me!

 

[WizCastro197]

I know trainsplit offer a single PDF with all e-tickets enclosed (not sure about other splitting sites), so in essence you have a 'single ticket', even if you do have to scroll down to a different page.

It's no more stress, but is cheaper! I still can't fathom why these websites aren't infinitely more popular than TOC websites.

Perhaps, most gravitate quickly to the TOC websites, as they know who they’d be travelling with, or they go to a generic site like Trainline where they don’t offer split tickets. I am sure most aren’t aware that splitting is a thing or aren’t aware of any websites.

 

[yorkie]

Honestly, average travellers won’t be splitting tickets, I’m sure they’d rather just have a single ticket, which to them will reduce stress of ‘do I have the wrong ticket’ or ‘Oh No I’ve lost my ticket (s)’

This makes no sense. The average person simply wants the fastest or cheapest (or perhaps some compromise between these) journey regardless of ticketing and they simply want to put it into a website, get a PDF and be done with it. Trainsplit does that, for the right price.

TOC websites may often say there are no fares available, or not offer the fastest journey or charge a premium. Who wants that?

Having a PDF with multiple pages is absolutely no issue at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2022 ==

Perhaps, most gravitate quickly to the TOC websites, as they know who they’d be travelling with,

But many journeys are across multiple operators. You are right many people go to a TOC site by default as TOCs get free advertising and people often don't know better

or they go to a generic site like Trainline where they don’t offer split tickets. I am sure most aren’t aware that splitting is a thing or aren’t aware of any websites.

And yes many people use Trainline because they have a strong advertising campaign. None of this is relevant to what people want.

I don't understand why someone who knows a bit about railway ticketing wants to send newbies to TOC websites; maybe the people they are recommending these sites are wealthy, with loads of spare cash and have no need to get good value tickets? Even then TOC sites won't always offer the fastest journey so it's a false economy.

 

[miklcct]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

My website of choice is Trainsplit, but others are available (any of which will cost you significantly less than TOC's on many journeys!)

The only reason I would understand someone wanting to use a different site would either be to gain loyalty points or for a TOC-specific fare only available through that website (Sale fares for instance)

There are some tickets where ticket splitting sites can't do, for example, bicycle reservations. Even not all do PlusBus as well.

Honestly, average travellers won’t be splitting tickets, I’m sure they’d rather just have a single ticket, which to them will reduce stress of ‘do I have the wrong ticket’ or ‘Oh No I’ve lost my ticket (s)’

Honestly, average travellers will use PAYG even if it may not be the best value, and only buy a ticket when PAYG can't be used.

This makes no sense. The average person simply wants the fastest or cheapest (or perhaps some compromise between these) journey regardless of ticketing and they simply want to put it into a website, get a PDF and be done with it. Trainsplit does that, for the right price.

TOC websites may often say there are no fares available, or not offer the fastest journey or charge a premium. Who wants that?

Having a PDF with multiple pages is absolutely no issue at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2022 ==


But many journeys are across multiple operators. You are right many people go to a TOC site by default as TOCs get free advertising and people often don't know better


And yes many people use Trainline because they have a strong advertising campaign. None of this is relevant to what people want.

I don't understand why someone who knows a bit about railway ticketing wants to send newbies to TOC websites; maybe the people they are recommending these sites are wealthy, with loads of spare cash and have no need to get good value tickets? Even then TOC sites won't always offer the fastest journey so it's a false economy.

There is no doubt that Trainline (including its white label websites) is easy to use than many other TOC websites, hence why it's so popular. Even Trainsplit can't beat it on the ease of use.

 

[ashkeba]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

Do any of them book bicycles yet? Can you book assisted boarding on them? Both reasons to use toc sites.

 

[Haywain]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites.

That is nonsense. There can be a number of reasons for using other sites, such as cashback, loyalty schemes, automated Delay Repay, ease of booking and available fulfilment methods. The important thing is to make an informed choice.

 

[markymark2000]

why? that means many journeys costing a premium, and often a loss of the ability to use a seat selector.

Mainly because they exist purely to extract revenue from the rail industry and often provide little back for it. I mean, people complain about train operators getting the 2% profit in management contracts yet happily let 3rd parties take 4.5% commission from their ticket sales. Money kept within the railways in TOCs could fund service enhancements or wage rises.

The only savings to be had really on 3rd party sites are for split ticket but even then, some of them aren't the best splits and I've found my own cheaper splits sometimes as the split ticketing sites look for just singles, if doing a round trip, sometimes returns can help or using some of the other weird railway

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

My website of choice is Trainsplit, but others are available (any of which will cost you significantly less than TOC's on many journeys!)

The only reason I would understand someone wanting to use a different site would either be to gain loyalty points or for a TOC-specific fare only available through that website (Sale fares for instance)

I use the ticket split sites sometimes to find a cheaper fare but then I go and book the journeys via LNER (as they are my preferred site). Most of the split ticketing sites charge you a percentage of savings and so I'd much rather put it all through LNER and save even more money by just getting tickets at the face value without fees.

LNER is my go to as I find their site is the simplest to use and best laid out. If I have to for certain sale tickets, I will go to Northern or TPE but I will avoid unless I absolutely have to. This said, I don't get any reservations or anything like that. I will avoid them at all cost so any benefits with the reservations system is a bit lost on me. If I get an automatic reservations because it's forced upon me, I get on the train and sit where I want anyway.




One thing that I do ask though is if people use Northern for example, I guess that technically is still supporting Trainline isn't it or will that commission go to Northern as I bought the ticket through Northern. For myself and I know some others, the thought of assisting Traveline is kind of painful. Their morals aren't in the right place and I know from experience that they cause railway workers endless issues so I'd rather not support any firm which causes much more hassle for the railway than it needed.

 

[Huntergreed]

I use the ticket split sites sometimes to find a cheaper fare but then I go and book the journeys via LNER (as they are my preferred site). Most of the split ticketing sites charge you a percentage of savings and so I'd much rather put it all through LNER and save even more money by just getting tickets at the face value without fees.

This is like using a small, local, expert business for advice and then refusing to use their advice to purchase in their shop and support their business, instead going to a major retailer having used the advantage of the smaller business, all for a marginal saving. It’s a very immoral practice which sadly doesn’t really have a solution.

The “freeloader” problem, it has no easy solution. Even so, you must agree that adding all of the tickets to the basket separately and then purchasing through the splitting site is just as cheap AND allows you to support the splitting website by giving them the very small percentage of ticket commission offered.

To be fair, I’ll be the first to admit I’ve done this occasionally where I’ve thought the “share of saving fee” was way too high!

LNER is my go to as I find their site is the simplest to use and best laid out. If I have to for certain sale tickets, I will go to Northern or TPE but I will avoid unless I absolutely have to. This said, I don't get any reservations or anything like that. I will avoid them at all cost so any benefits with the reservations system is a bit lost on me. If I get an automatic reservations because it's forced upon me, I get on the train and sit where I want anyway.

With TrainSplit you get a seat selector regardless of the operator so you don’t have to worry about automatic reservations! If you choose not to use them, fair enough, but the option is certainly there and it offers better reservation selections than any TOC website.

 

[yorkie]

Mainly because they exist purely to extract revenue from the rail industry and often provide little back for it. I mean, people complain about train operators getting the 2% profit in management contracts yet happily let 3rd parties take 4.5% commission from their ticket sales. Money kept within the railways in TOCs could fund service enhancements or wage rises.

This is an absurd argument; on the contrary the TOC websites are subsidised. It would be impossible to operate a third party site effectively without charging some sort of fee, such is the rare of charges made by ATOC.

The only savings to be had really on 3rd party sites are for split ticket but even then, some of them aren't the best splits and I've found my own cheaper splits sometimes as the split ticketing sites look for just singles, if doing a round trip, sometimes returns can help or using some of the other weird railway

Please give me examples of such journeys and I will get them looked at.

In order to do better, you must spend hours looking at itineraries and tickets manually. Can an average person do this?

I use the ticket split sites sometimes to find a cheaper fare but then I go and book the journeys via LNER (as they are my preferred site).

That's really underhand and morally wrong.

Most of the split ticketing sites charge you a percentage of savings and so I'd much rather put it all through LNER and save even more money by just getting tickets at the face value without fees.

That argument holds no water; you now admit that you use the split ticket sites to find the best deals and then you don't even book through those sites. You want to have your cake and eat it in an underhand way.

If you don't think split ticket sites deserve any share of savings, why not at least put each ticket in the basket on the same site manually? At least then the website gets something back for what you gained from it

You earlier claimed to do your own splits manually but you now appear to be admitting to ripping off the work of others.

LNER is my go to as I find their site is the simplest to use and best laid out. If I have to for certain sale tickets, I will go to Northern or TPE but I will avoid unless I absolutely have to. This said, I don't get any reservations or anything like that. I will avoid them at all cost so any benefits with the reservations system is a bit lost on me. If I get an automatic reservations because it's forced upon me, I get on the train and sit where I want anyway.

Good luck with that on a busy train.

One thing that I do ask though is if people use Northern for example, I guess that technically is still supporting Trainline isn't it or will that commission go to Northern as I bought the ticket through Northern. For myself and I know some others, the thought of assisting Traveline is kind of painful. Their morals aren't in the right place and I know from experience that they cause railway workers endless issues so I'd rather not support any firm which causes much more hassle for the railway than it needed.

Some of the money will indeed go to Trainline if you book with Northern. It's not a level playing field and the sites you use to find your cheapest combinations of fares wouldn't exist if everyone acted as you do. It's very difficult for a retailer to break even, yet here you are making all sorts of false claims and admitting you rip the data off such sites and give nothing back to them.

But you also don't fundamentally answer the question of why you recommend TOC sites to new users , when you admit that you actually use split ticketing websites to gather the data yourself

Are you saying you recommend others engage in the same immoral practice as you, or are you saying you want others to not benefit from the savings you do? Either way I don't get it.

 

[markymark2000]

This is like using a small, local, expert business for advice and then refusing to use their advice to purchase in their shop and support their business, instead going to a major retailer having used the advantage of the smaller business, all for a marginal saving. It’s a very immoral practice which sadly doesn’t really have a solution.

I'd argue it's more on par with shopping around. Why pay more than you have to for something. It's not as if I get any better service by paying for the ticket via the 3rd party sites. Absolutely no difference so why wouldn't I pay less for the same thing. I mean, isn't that the whole point of split tickets in the first place? Same journey, why pay more for it. I am simply using their own system against them.

The “freeloader” problem, it has no easy solution. Even so, you must agree that adding all of the tickets to the basket separately and then purchasing through the splitting site is just as cheap AND allows you to support the splitting website by giving them the very small percentage of ticket commission offered.

To be fair, I’ll be the first to admit I’ve done this occasionally where I’ve thought the “share of saving fee” was way too high!

I rarely use the split ticketing sites to be fair as I trial and error things for myself. I don't want 300 split tickets for the sake of saving a few quid. This is mostly using my geekiness though. The only instance where I use them is if I am booking a really strange journey which I can't actually work out how to make the journey cheaper. Even so though, as I said before, some of the results which come back from the split ticketing sites can still be beaten and I have done that numerous times. It may give an idea of the potential splits which you may not think of but sometimes it's cheaper to do things differently. Especially with returns, trial and error on your own can save you a fair bit more money. I think one time it suggested a split for me somewhere using unrestricted singles each way. I found the return was 5p more expensive than the single so why pay for 2 singles when you can travel for basically the price of 1. Crewe to Chester, it's cheaper to get a ticket from Shrewsbury to Chester (valid via Crewe). This would I think mess up delay repay though. Shrewsbury to Chester, £12 return, £12.50 single. Obviously get a return then but split ticket sites may suggest 2 singles at £25, I can get it for £12.

They are handy for some things but other times, it's just a starting point. Save you going off a blank canvas, you have more of a starting point.

With TrainSplit you get a seat selector regardless of the operator so you don’t have to worry about automatic reservations! If you choose not to use them, fair enough, but the option is certainly there and it offers better reservation selections than any TOC website.

That's a good option to be fair if they offer it for all TOCs. Not for me though sadly.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Does anyone have a list of which TOCs use which booking systems?

I know a lot of people say they don't like certain websites as they are user unfriendly but it's hard to suggest alternatives when many use the same systems but as a white label. So, I thought this list could help people to find a site which works best for them.

The list is meant to be purely for train operators (I'd rather encourage people to use TOCs rather than 3rd parts sites) and I have excluded any TOC who doesn't sell tickets for outside of their network (Merseyrail and Heathrow Express for example)


Guest Bookings - I've included this as some people prefer not to sign up to loads of sites and as such guest bookings mean that they can just buy a ticket and not have to create accounts.

Collection reference for ever journey - this is included as it's a bugbear. I know it's something Northern do and because of split tickets, even when booked in a single transaction, they give you a different collection reference and booking email. It meant 1 journey got 5 or so emails and collection references. Needless to say, I wasn't best pleased.


If anyone thinks of any other columns to add which would be useful for others to see as a comparison, ill happily do so.

Hopefully some people find this list helpful

TOC	Booking System Used	Guest bookings	Collection reference for every journey
Avanti West Coast	PICO4UK	No
C2C	PICO4UK	Yes
Chiltern Railway	Silverrail	Yes
CrossCountry	Trainline	Yes
East Midlands Railway	Trainline	Yes
GTR	On Track Retail	Yes
Grand Central	Silverrail	Yes
Greater Anglia	Trainline	Yes
Great Western Railway	Worldline	No
Hull Trains	Worldine	No
LNER	Vix/Softwire	No	Only ToD
Lumo	Worldline	No
Northern	Trainline	Yes	Yes
Scotrail	Trainline	Yes
Southeastern	On Track Retail	Yes
South Western Railway	Worldline	No
TransPennine Express	Worldline	No
Transport for Wales	Silverrail	Yes
West Midlands Trains	Trainline	Yes

Amended that for you

 

[yorkie]

I'd argue it's more on par with shopping around. Why pay more than you have to for something. It's not as if I get any better service by paying for the ticket via the 3rd party sites. Absolutely no difference so why wouldn't I pay less for the same thing. I mean, isn't that the whole point of split tickets in the first place? Same journey, why pay more for it. I am simply using their own system against them.

It's not shopping around at all.

You find the best deal and then go out of your way to avoid that retailer!

I wish it was possible to block users like you from using split ticket sites; sadly if people like you continue to do this the only option they may have is to force people to log in or hide the splits until the time of purchase.

If it was just about evading the share of savings, why don't you add each ticket to the basket on the same site? I'd like to see you answer that question rather than duck out of it

I rarely use the split ticketing sites to be fair as I trial and error things for myself. I don't want 300 split tickets for the sake of saving a few quid.

Hyperbole isn't doing your case any good

This is mostly using my geekiness though. The only instance where I use them is if I am booking a really strange journey which I can't actually work out how to make the journey cheaper. Even so though, as I said before, some of the results which come back from the split ticketing sites can still be beaten and I have done that numerous times.

Go on give me examples

It may give an idea of the potential splits which you may not think of but sometimes it's cheaper to do things differently. Especially with returns, trial and error on your own can save you a fair bit more money. I think one time it suggested a split for me somewhere using unrestricted singles each way. I found the return was 5p more expensive than the single so why pay for 2 singles when you can travel for basically the price of 1. Crewe to Chester, it's cheaper to get a ticket from Shrewsbury to Chester (valid via Crewe). This would I think mess up delay repay though. Shrewsbury to Chester, £12 return, £12.50 single. Obviously get a return then but split ticket sites may suggest 2 singles at £25, I can get it for £12.

Starting or finishing short is a completely different concept and you could do this using any website. You are evading the question.

They are handy for some things but other times, it's just a starting point. Save you going off a blank canvas, you have more of a starting point.

So basically, you start off by ripping off split ticketing sites and then spend ages seeing if you can beat it (usually you won't) and then put each ticket manually into a TOC site (when you could do so with the site you benefitted from)

That's a good option to be fair if they offer it for all TOCs. Not for me though sadly.

It does work with all TOCs which have seat reservations.

 

[markymark2000]

This is an absurd argument; on the contrary the TOC websites are subsidised. It would be impossible to operate a third party site effectively without charging some sort of fee, such is the rare of charges made by ATOC.

If more payments were made via TOCs sites, they wouldn't need to be as subsidised.

In order to do better, you must spend hours looking at itineraries and tickets manually. Can an average person do this?

Not really. Depends on the journey though of course. If you're travelling 300 miles cross country, yes it will take much longer than if you check 30 miles 'down the road'

That's really underhand and mor

Morally wrong in some ways but also not. It's shopping around. As per you would do anywhere else.

That argument holds no water; you now admit that you use the split ticket sites to find the best deals and then you don't even book through those sites. You want to have your cake and eat it in an underhand way.

If you don't think split ticket sites deserve any share of savings, why not at least put each ticket in the basket on the same site manually? At least then the website gets something back for what you gained from it

You earlier claimed to do your own splits manually but you now appear to be admitting to ripping off the work of others.

I have used them, not regularly. There's a big difference. I think I've gone through them 4 times or so in my life and of that, 2 of the times were to check a very long distance journey which included 4 train operators. That's it. 99% of journeys, I go via LNER and book there and then as it's routes that I, personally, have checked the fares on and split myself if needed. Without even going to a split ticketing site.

Good luck with that on a busy train.

I tend not to end up on many busy trains and if I do, personal preference is to stand until there is sufficient space. I know that this isn't what others do though and hence I said while the feature isn't for me, I can see why others like it.

Some of the money will indeed go to Trainline if you book with Northern. It's not a level playing field and the sites you use to find your cheapest combinations of fares wouldn't exist if everyone acted as you do. It's very difficult for a retailer to break even, yet here you are making all sorts of false claims and admitting you rip the data off such sites and give nothing back to them.

To be fair, the trainline points are not really the split ticket thing. I've never, ever used trainline to book a ticket. The Trainline side is more so I have information so that I can avoid them and try to never give them a penny of my money, directly or indirectly via their white label sites.

But you also don't fundamentally answer the question of why you recommend TOC sites to new users , when you admit that you actually use split ticketing websites to gather the data yourself

Context above for some parts. Otherwise, support is generally much better via TOCs than the 3rd parties (some really good and really bad on both sides but on balance, TOC support is best)

It's not shopping around at all.

You find the best deal and then go out of your way to avoid that retailer!

I find some deals, not 'the best deal'. I then avoid the platform to save more costs. Kind of is shopping around, saving on fees.

I wish it was possible to block users like you from using split ticket sites; sadly if people like you continue to do this the only option they may have is to force people to log in or hide the splits until the time of purchase.

If it was just about evading the share of savings, why don't you add each ticket to the basket on the same site? I'd like to see you answer that question rather than duck out of it

Firstly, I hadn't thought of redoing it all via the split ticket site. Secondly though, I'd much rather do things direct. That's my choice, I go direct for almost everything, doesn't mean that you can't check out deals elsewhere. Exactly the same as people do for normal bills and it's actively encouraged. Go on uswitch, check what offers are going, call up your provider and ask them to match it. There you go, uswitch just gave you the inspiration and told you what you set your bar at. I am going to the railway split ticket site to get some ideas of how to play about, I then go on a direct TOC site, ask them for the same thing and they say 'We will give you all of that for a bit cheaper'. It's a standard practise in other areas as a way to get things cheaper. Including but not limited to phone sim only contracts.

Starting or finishing short is a completely different concept and you could do this using any website. You are evading the question.

I replied to that message before I saw your post. I wasn't avoiding any questions. While changing the tickets can be done on any website, the split ticketing sites do not show these options. It takes a human to know and adapt their tickets to match this.
As for examples that I came accross, train stops A-B-C. Split ticketing said advance ticket A-C but I found that advance tickets from A-B and B-C were cheaper than their offered A-C. (I am not giving station names as you are then going to use that for commercial gain. Rest assured, I've never used the railforums ticketing site for the purposed above). I've had times offered where it's said get this single ticket here and get a single back but a month return was cheaper than 2 singles but split ticket sites seems to only work out giving people single tickets. I know it could be beat where returns are cheaper than singles as infact, all train operators are beaten by this. The example that I did give above was Shrewsbury to Chester. Ask for it as a single journey and it says £12.50. Ask for it as a return journey £12. That's not a split ticketing site issue, that's every single journey booking site has that issue for some reason.

So basically, you start off by ripping off split ticketing sites and then spend ages seeing if you can beat it (usually you won't) and then put each ticket manually into a TOC site (when you could do so with the site you benefitted from)

I've beat split ticketing sites a good few times. How I spend my time is upto me and if I can find it cheaper, that's upto me to weigh up the time/cost benefits.




I do think it's worth saying just to be clear, my points on Trainline and split ticketing sites are completely different and should remain separate.

Trainline I won't use as the journey planner is awful, causes endless issues for train operators. Exists purely to take huge sums of money in commission and then has the cheek to charge people extra to get the tickets on top. Support is godawful too (speaking to a number of people who have used trainline). That's why I avoid trainline. Awful company.

Split Tickets is purely the issue that I can find tickets cheaper elsewhere so why book with them if I can get it cheaper elsewhere. The 4 times that I have used them, 3 times I have then amended the results given and found cheaper tickets on face value (not including the fees). Once I had to amend the options given as someone wanted to change at a certain place so I took the inspiration and amended things from there, cost a bit more to change there but the person wanted to do it. The argument for booking direct here is that bookings are in one place as I have preferred LNER as I have said. Might as well keep things in one place. If for whatever reason I need support, LNER is helpful and has a track record of being helpful. Not heard any horror stories about them but I always hear some horror stories about 3rd party sites. That's just how I am though, I prefer to go direct than use affiliate sellers.

 

[yorkie]

If more payments were made via TOCs sites, they wouldn't need to be as subsidised.


Not really. Depends on the journey though of course. If you're travelling 300 miles cross country, yes it will take much longer than if you check 30 miles 'down the road'

Morally wrong in some ways but also not. It's shopping around. As per you would do anywhere else.


I have used them, not regularly. There's a big difference. I think I've gone through them 4 times or so in my life and of that, 2 of the times were to check a very long distance journey which included 4 train operators. That's it. 99% of journeys, I go via LNER and book there and then as it's routes that I, personally, have checked the fares on and split myself if needed. Without even going to a split ticketing site.



I tend not to end up on many busy trains and if I do, personal preference is to stand until there is suffieicent space. I know that this isn't what others do though and hence I said while the feature isn't for me, I can see why others like it.


To be fair, the trainline points are not really the split ticket thing. I've never, ever used trainline to book a ticket. The Trainline side is more so I have information so that I can avoid them and try to never give them a penny of my money, directly or indirectly via their white label sites.


Context above for some parts. Otherwise, support is generally much better via TOCs than the 3rd parties (some really good and really bad on both sides but on balance, TOC support is best)



I find some deals, not 'the best deal'. I then avoid the platform to save more costs. Kind of is shopping around, saving on fees.


Firstly, I hadn't thought of redoing it all via the split ticket site. Secondly though, I'd much rather do things direct. That's my choice, I go direct for almost everything, doesn't mean that you can't check out deals elsewhere. Exactly the same as people do for normal bills and it's actively encouraged. Go on uswitch, check what offers are going, call up your provider and ask them to match it. There you go, uswitch just gave you the inspiration and told you what you set your bar at. I am going to the railway split ticket site to get some ideas of how to play about, I then go on a direct TOC site, ask them for the same thing and they say 'We will give you all of that for a bit cheaper'. It's a standard practise in other areas as a way to get things cheaper. Including but not limited to phone sim only contracts.


I replied to that message before I saw your post. I wasn't avoiding any questions. While changing the tickets can be done on any website, the split ticketing sites do not show these options. It takes a human to know and adapt their tickets to match this.
As for examples that I came accross, train stops A-B-C. Split ticketing said advance ticket A-C but I found that advance tickets from A-B and B-C were cheaper than their offered A-C. (I am not giving station names as you are then going to use that for commercial gain. Rest assured, I've never used the railforums ticketing site for the purposed above). I've had times offered where it's said get this single ticket here and get a single back but a month return was cheaper than 2 singles but split ticket sites seems to only work out giving people single tickets. I know it could be beat where returns are cheaper than singles as infact, all train operators are beaten by this. The example that I did give above was Shrewsbury to Chester. Ask for it as a single journey and it says £12.50. Ask for it as a return journey £12. That's not a split ticketing site issue, that's every single journey booking site has that issue for some reason.


I've beat split ticketing sites a good few times. How I spend my time is upto me and if I can find it cheaper, that's upto me to weigh up the time/cost benefits.

This is more nonsense; you've got me annoyed and I will respond, robustly, another time at a later date. Your logic is flawed but what you are doing is immoral and I wish it could be stopped. Can I ask that you do not use the forums fare engine for this immoral purpose. I will respond on the 27th.

 

[sheff1]

The only sites that anyone should be considering are ticket splitting sites. Not using these just seems silly! Certainly, choosing a TOC website over a splitting site is just pointless and likely to cost money.

Not at all

With ref to the OP, EMR give a different collection reference for each journey.

 

[yorkie]

Not at all

Give the journeys I make it is highly likely to cost more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally agree that it's immoral to use a splitting site to find splits and buy them elsewhere. It's the same as trying shoes on in a shoe shop then buying online - it kills small businesses. By all means buy online, but don't use other small businesses to do your research first, that's just freeloading.

If you want to work out splits yourself, of course, feel free.

It'd be sad if Trainsplit had to hide the splits, as I often like to know them before purchase to see what flexibility I would have to see if the saving is worthwhile or whether I'd rather switch it into "don't split" mode and gain the added flexibility of a through ticket. But I'd understand if it did. Perhaps it should at least for Advances where there isn't any additional flexibility that can be gained, unlike walk-ups.

 

[sheff1]

The important thing is to make an informed choice.

Agreed.

It'd be sad if Trainsplit had to hide the splits, as I often like to know them before purchase to see what flexibility I would have to see if the saving is worthwhile or whether I'd rather switch it into "don't split" mode and gain the added flexibility of a through ticket. But I'd understand if it did. Perhaps it should at least for Advances where there isn't any additional flexibility that can be gained, unlike walk-ups.

If Trainsplit hid the splits I would cease using them. I don't buy anything 'blind'.

 

[markymark2000]

This is more nonsense; you've got me annoyed and I will respond, robustly, another time at a later date. Your logic is flawed but what you are doing is immoral and I wish it could be stopped. Can I ask that you do not use the forums fare engine for this immoral purpose. I will respond on the 27th.

I have never used the forums fare engine for this and I don't intend on either. I have my preferred sites for everything that I do.

Same with most affiliate sellers in most areas, it's not just the railways where it can be done. Yes it's a bit immoral but then don't charge fees which aren't charged elsewhere. You may have shown me how to get it cheaper but I can get it cheaper again.

Same as looking and finding things on ebay or amazon with the dropshippers then going on Aliexpress and getting it for pennies. It's all completely legit and justified.

Totally agree that it's immoral to use a splitting site to find splits and buy them elsewhere. It's the same as trying shoes on in a shoe shop then buying online - it kills small businesses. By all means buy online, but don't use other small businesses to do your research first, that's just freeloading.

I mean, that is literally done daily by most people. 'Oh, I can get that for cheaper online' or 'cheaper at such and such a shop'. Are you telling me that you've never gone into the pound shop, found an item and gone 'I can get that cheaper in Wilko', gone to Wilko and saved yourself some pennies. (purely examples. the shops are just there to prove the point). People acting like this isn't a standard practice to compare prices in shops and online. Same thing in my eyes.

 

[Huntergreed]

I mean, that is literally done daily by most people. 'Oh, I can get that for cheaper online' or 'cheaper at such and such a shop'. Are you telling me that you've never gone into the pound shop, found an item and gone 'I can get that cheaper in Wilko', gone to Wilko and saved yourself some pennies. (purely examples. the shops are just there to prove the point). People acting like this isn't a standard practice to compare prices in shops and online. Same thing in my eyes.

But it isn’t even cheaper! Literally the only difference is you’re using the website and deliberately refusing to give it any commission on the sale! If you can find an example where trainsplit offers an itinerary that isn’t cheaper, I recommend highlighting it here and I’m sure it would be quickly fixed!

 

[miklcct]

Go on uswitch, check what offers are going, call up your provider and ask them to match it. There you go, uswitch just gave you the inspiration and told you what you set your bar at. I am going to the railway split ticket site to get some ideas of how to play about, I then go on a direct TOC site, ask them for the same thing and they say 'We will give you all of that for a bit cheaper'. It's a standard practise in other areas as a way to get things cheaper. Including but not limited to phone sim only contracts.

I have found deals which are ONLY offered on uswitch but not by booking direct from the providers! As a result I couldn't avoid using uswitch to get that deal!

But it isn’t even cheaper! Literally the only difference is you’re using the website and deliberately refusing to give it any commission on the sale! If you can find an example where trainsplit offers an itinerary that isn’t cheaper, I recommend highlighting it here and I’m sure it would be quickly fixed!

I use sites like Skyscanner and Google Flights a lot in this manner as well. If not because of the good customer service of Trainsplit I would have already done the same. I'm paying the commission only because of its superior customer service. If someone thinks that the customer service of LNER is better than that of Trainsplit I fully support him to search on Trainsplit and buy the exact tickets on LNER.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it's a bit immoral but then don't charge fees which aren't charged elsewhere.

Why shouldn't they charge for offering a value-added service of working out the splits?

I mean, that is literally done daily by most people. 'Oh, I can get that for cheaper online' or 'cheaper at such and such a shop'. Are you telling me that you've never gone into the pound shop, found an item and gone 'I can get that cheaper in Wilko', gone to Wilko and saved yourself some pennies. (purely examples. the shops are just there to prove the point). People acting like this isn't a standard practice to compare prices in shops and online. Same thing in my eyes.

I certainly have never, that I recall, gone into a shop, used their professional services (e.g. fitting or advice) to determine what product was right for me, then bought it elsewhere because it was cheaper. I have walked around shops to price things up, but that's very different and is more like checking the railway's prices then going with Megabus.

The one exception is opticians, but then they charge for their professional services (i.e. an eye test) separately, the old "free eye test because you'll probably buy from us" is barely a thing any more because so many people won't.

To be fair I have heard of niche shoe shops (e.g. those selling specialist hiking boots) charging for fitting so they can recoup that cost if someone does go on to buy elsewhere. I'm not sure how Trainsplit would do this, though. Perhaps it could charge for telling you what the split is if you didn't want to buy it from them.