Midlands Connect latest report

[zwk500]

If it does happen, how about a dedicated accessible shuttle between Moor St and New street station entrances where staff could be on hand to meet people to offer onward assistance?

I proposed this in the post you replied to

 

[The Ham]

I do have a sense of perspective and realise it’s probably a small number of people who will lose out, but it isn’t just people nervous of the walk, it’s people who can’t walk far, people who are sight impaired who just couldn’t find the way, people who aren’t able to carry luggage that far. What we’re potentially talking about is splitting the country in half with a walk through the centre of an unfamiliar city to get from anywhere south of Birmingham to anywhere north of Birmingham on what is now the cross country network. Switching station has happened in London since the system was built so no getting around that, but to design that into the system now shouldn’t really be happening.

London has seriously built up the north south Thameslink service which helps with cross city journeys and Manchester has at least attempted to connect their main stations (but with much work to do)

Big step in the wrong direction for long distance travellers if the service is split in my opinion.

If it does happen, how about a dedicated accessible shuttle between Moor St and New street station entrances where staff could be on hand to meet people to offer onward assistance?

Depending on the setup, could it be possible for some of the services to continue to use New Street?

The other thing worth noting, post HS2, travel from Reading to Birmingham (with places further north than Birmingham faster still) would be quicker via Old Oak Common (probably an easier location to change than Birmingham), South of Reading would be about the same journey time (but more frequent) and whilst that would currently require two changes (the other being at Reading) it's not a bad place to change, whilst from Banbury you'd probably not use XC services to get to Birmingham.

Also for a lot passengers rather than heading to New Street to carry on North (or from the North when traveling the other way) they would likely be heading to HS2 services which are just next door.

Finally there's been talk of putting in trams to provide a public transport link.

Whilst not ideal (that would be a single massive station) the numbers impacted are likely to be very small. If some services still could be routed via New Street then chances are (even if that's only, say, four times a day) the numbers impacted and without a viable option, whilst not zero, would be very close to zero.

Obviously until the new timetable is provided there's no way of knowing the full extent of the impact, however given that it's something which had been highlighted multiple times; I'd hope that there's been a good level of consideration as to ensuring that the impact is kept low.

 

[Purple Orange]

In the context of the latest developments, I would suggest that thinking around Birmingham needs to change. We’re used to there being one 12 platform through-station that does pretty much all traffic in Birmingham, ranging from Intercity to local commuter services, but that is unsustainable. Also having destinations split between stations is not helpful to passengers. HS2 gives the whole industry the opportunity to redraw the network and should it not be the case that New Street becomes a line more akin to Birmingham’s version of London Bridge, Waterloo & Victoria to cater for commuters and regional passenger flows, with the Curzon Street & Moor Street complex more akin to the Kings Cross & St Pancras complex, predominantly catering for long distance Intercity passengers? I.e. nobody travelling from outside the West Midlands to another destination outside the West Midlands via Birmingham should need to make the journey from New Street to Curzon Street.

 

[the sniper]

I.e. nobody travelling from outside the West Midlands to another destination outside the West Midlands via Birmingham should need to make the journey from New Street to Curzon Street.

Alternatively many people starting a journey by train from within the West Midlands will likely need to undertake a rather awkward walk across town or around the houses tram ride (at additional cost?) in order to continue a train journey to most places outside of it... Rather makes a mockery of the connectivity credentials of HS2.

 

[Purple Orange]

Alternatively many people starting a journey by train from within the West Midlands will likely need to undertake a rather awkward walk across town or around the houses tram ride (at additional cost?) in order to continue a train journey to most places outside of it... Rather makes a mockery of the connectivity credentials of HS2.

That happens in large metropolitan cities. It is a rare city where it is possible to build a mammoth single central station connecting the whole conurbation. Generally, cities have more than one termini. It does make the case stronger for better connectivity across the centre in terms of a metro. New Street (post HS2) will also be far busier than Curzon Street & Moor Street combined, as for the majority of journeys starting from a station within the West Midlands region, Birmingham city centre will be the end destination and not an intercity connection.

 

[GoneSouth]

Alternatively many people starting a journey by train from within the West Midlands will likely need to undertake a rather awkward walk across town or around the houses tram ride (at additional cost?) in order to continue a train journey to most places outside of it... Rather makes a mockery of the connectivity credentials of HS

Additional cost maybe, but on one ticket hopefully like Cross London journeys. How much of the price of a cross London ticket goes towards a tube ticket?

 

[zwk500]

Alternatively many people starting a journey by train from within the West Midlands will likely need to undertake a rather awkward walk across town or around the houses tram ride (at additional cost?) in order to continue a train journey to most places outside of it... Rather makes a mockery of the connectivity credentials of HS2.

Again, it's less than 1/4 mile. It's only about twice as long as changing between Platform 1 and Platform 12 at New Street itself! People will walk A LOT further at any airport. Having a member of staff and a buggy outside the eastern entrance to New Street to shuttle people to/from Moor Street preserves accessibility. It's hardly a Yeovil Junction situation. You can see Moor street from the corner of New Street.

 

[William3000]

Been thinking about this overnight assuming the upgrades to allow a 4tph Birmingham - Leicester service to happen plus the upgrades at Leicester (platform 5 to the east of platform 4 and 4 tracking between Wigston North and Syston Junctions). Would 4tph plus freight be able to cross Wigston North without grade separation?

I suppose the slow services could be combined with Ivanhoe line services to give a 2tph Birmingham- Leicester - Nottingham all stations stopping service assuming capacity between Trent junctions and Nottingham station.

The fast services could run as present to Ely with one train per hour continuing to Cambridge & Stansted as present, would the proposed second service continue to Cambridge or would it be better sent to Norwich but I guess that would depend on capacity at Ely North junction?

Taking one to Norwich may seem logical but I suspect running to Cambridge half-hourly would make more logistical sense. Firstly it would take one fewer path through limited capacity Ely North junction, and secondly, if additional paths were available, I would imagine making London King’s Cross to King’s Lynn half-hourly, and Peterborough to Ipswich hourly would be more of a priority than giving Norwich a direct link to Birmingham New Street. Also worth remembering that Cambridge has more than twice the total passenger numbers as Norwich, and with its current one three-car train per hour, is poorly served to the Midlands and North.

 

[Class 170101]

Taking one to Norwich may seem logical but I suspect running to Cambridge half-hourly would make more logistical sense. Firstly it would take one fewer path through limited capacity Ely North junction,

You assume it calls at Ely which would take two paths every hour each way but it doesn't have to serve Ely. Services canb run direct from Norewich to March (and onto Birmingham) via the (once again) Bi-Directional Ely West Curve.

 

[Birmingham]

If it does happen, how about a dedicated accessible shuttle between Moor St and New street station entrances where staff could be on hand to meet people to offer onward assistance?

Long travelator
Or like the bridge you get between the airport and a plane at large airports.

 

[zwk500]

You assume it calls at Ely which would take two paths every hour each way but it doesn't have to serve Ely. Services canb run direct from Norewich to March (and onto Birmingham) via the (once again) Bi-Directional Ely West Curve.

This requires a clean gap across the whole junction though, and is a very tight curve causing increased wear and tear. Running into Ely at least staggers the conflicts a little.

 

[RobShipway]

It is not an especially long way, about the same as between Liverpool Lime St and Central which loads of people walk (both about a third of a mile or half a kilometre), though the manky tunnel full of vagrants between the two really needs improving.

I do have a sense of perspective and realise it’s probably a small number of people who will lose out, but it isn’t just people nervous of the walk, it’s people who can’t walk far, people who are sight impaired who just couldn’t find the way, people who aren’t able to carry luggage that far. What we’re potentially talking about is splitting the country in half with a walk through the centre of an unfamiliar city to get from anywhere south of Birmingham to anywhere north of Birmingham on what is now the cross country network. Switching station has happened in London since the system was built so no getting around that, but to design that into the system now shouldn’t really be happening.

London has seriously built up the north south Thameslink service which helps with cross city journeys and Manchester has at least attempted to connect their main stations (but with much work to do)

Big step in the wrong direction for long distance travellers if the service is split in my opinion.

If it does happen, how about a dedicated accessible shuttle between Moor St and New street station entrances where staff could be on hand to meet people to offer onward assistance?

Is there not a West Midlands metro stop being planned for Curzon Street for the HS2 terminal station in Birmingham, which will be adjacent to Moor Street station?

As others have said, walking from Curzon Street station to Moor Street station will be like walking from St Pancras to King's Cross.

Not sure if it is part of the Midlands Connect program, but in plans submitted to the Department of Transport back in June 2019, the plans for Moor Street did include the following:

• two new platforms (5 and 6)
• two extra trains per hour to Leicester and Derby
• two extra commuter services per hour from Kings Norton via the Camp Hill Line
• one extra train per hour to Nottingham
• one extra train per hour to Hereford via Worcester
• one extra train per hour to Cardiff Central
• one extra train per hour to Bristol Temple Meads

So the details in the MidlandsConnect latest report, is really nothing new.

 

[Snow1964]

Local Hereford news has a photo of Hereford, with various officials and article

Rail improvements to boost Herefordshire economy 'by millions'​

Detailed submitted to the Government in December forecast it will enable up to 100 extra trains across the Midlands every day.

Partially double-tracking the line between Ledbury and Shelwick north of Hereford, combined with major infrastructure improvements in Birmingham, will enable trains to travel more quickly and frequently between the two cities.

Midlands Connect chief executive Maria Machancoses said the project “has the backing of the businesses, communities and political leaders throughout the Midlands”, and that the economic research “shows the benefits reach every corner of the region”.

Rail improvements to boost Herefordshire economy 'by millions'

Herefordshire’s economy stands to gain by millions from improved rail services to Birmingham and beyond over the coming years, new research shows.

www.herefordtimes.com

 

[The Planner]

Local Hereford news has a photo of Hereford, with various officials and article

Rail improvements to boost Herefordshire economy 'by millions'

Herefordshire’s economy stands to gain by millions from improved rail services to Birmingham and beyond over the coming years, new research shows.

www.herefordtimes.com

Its. Not. Funded. If any of the Midlands Rail Hub projects on the West side of Birmingham need to be pruned, this will be one of the first.