South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Wuggie Norple]

Prof. Mark Barry suggests that Cardiff has a ‘Crossrail’ route going from Cregiau (& maybe Beddau) via a new line serving Cregiau, Plasdwr (new housing NW Cardiff) then joining the City Line just N of Fairwater station before proceeding to Central. At Central it could go through the car park & then across Callaghan Square to join the Bay Line. Then it would continue through the central Bay area to reach Splott and eventually the main line south side. So, it would appear that this consultation taking place now is to gather views on this eastern section from Central. No mention is made of it connecting with the western section at Central in this consultation. Goodness knows if that is still the intention? Mark Barry also mentions reaching the proposed Cardiff Parkway (near St.Mellons south). For that to happen, the tram-trains would have to go a few miles along the GWML relief lines - which are mainly used for freight trains.

Cardiff Crossrail

Cardiff Crossrail

swalesmetroprof.blog

Good post. It will be interesting to see if Prof. Barry comments on the new proposal in his blog. Despite at one time being a "vision", any idea of a new line from Creigiau to Cardiff seems to have sunk without trace.

 

[Envoy]

Good post. It will be interesting to see if Prof. Barry comments on the new proposal in his blog. Despite at one time being a "vision", any idea of a new line from Creigiau to Cardiff seems to have sunk without trace.

I don’t think that the proposed line out to Cregiau has “sunk without trace”. They have enough on their plate getting the present lines electrified and doubled in some places.

 

[Wuggie Norple]

I don’t think that the proposed line out to Cregiau has “sunk without trace”. They have enough on their plate getting the present lines electrified and doubled in some places.

Curious that it is not mentioned in the current consultation, even as a very long-term "Aspiration" or "Vision". I am planning to attend the drop-in session about the consultation at Cardiff Library next week and will ask about it.

 

[CardiffKid]

I think it’s still very much an aspiration, but this consultation is soley on Newport Rd to Cardiff Central via Splott/Tremorfa.

 

[Wuggie Norple]

I think it’s still very much an aspiration, but this consultation is soley on Newport Rd to Cardiff Central via Splott/Tremorfa.

The problem is surely that, in isolation, this proposal is far from compelling, particularly the bit from Newport Road to the Bay. Would it not make more sense to present this as phase 1 of the Cardiff Crossrail vision? For sure, the reaction of the people I’ve discussed the proposal with is not very positive.

 

[CardiffKid]

…Would it not make more sense to present this as phase 1 of the Cardiff Crossrail vision? For sure, the reaction of the people I’ve discussed the proposal with is not very positive.

Quite possibly but note that this is “subject to funding” and that’s without mentioning the rest of Cardiff’s “Crossrail”

I’m 38 in January and I’m not sure I’ll see much of “Cardiff Crossrail” before I’m close to retirement if anything.

 

[WesternBiker]

The problem is surely that, in isolation, this proposal is far from compelling, particularly the bit from Newport Road to the Bay. Would it not make more sense to present this as phase 1 of the Cardiff Crossrail vision? For sure, the reaction of the people I’ve discussed the proposal with is not very positive.

I'm struggling to understand how Tremorfa and Newport Road could generate enough traffic to justify a heavy-rail solution. For anyone going to the city centre, it's a very roundabout route. It has the feel of a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I would prefer the government concentrated on extending the reach of the rail network to places that have poor connections to Cardiff. Areas with large populations such as Talbot Green/Beddau/Church Village/Tonteg/Cowbridge/Tonyrefail. Those areas of Cardiff mentioned already are well connected to the city centre by public transport.

 

[Bob Price]

I would prefer the government concentrated on extending the reach of the rail network to places that have poor connections to Cardiff. Areas with large populations such as Talbot Green/Beddau/Church Village/Tonteg/Cowbridge/Tonyrefail. Those areas of Cardiff mentioned already are well connected to the city centre by public transport.

Cowbridge would be a different call. The old line there has been decimated.

 

[Envoy]

The old line to Cowbridge linked Aberthaw with Pontyclun - basically a north - south route. The flow of people in/out of Cowbridge is mainly east - west with most going east to Cardiff. Another reason to limit new housing in the Cowbridge area!

 

[Bluejays]

Prof. Mark Barry suggests that Cardiff has a ‘Crossrail’ route going from Cregiau (& maybe Beddau) via a new line serving Cregiau, Plasdwr (new housing NW Cardiff) then joining the City Line just N of Fairwater station before proceeding to Central. At Central it could go through the car park & then across Callaghan Square to join the Bay Line. Then it would continue through the central Bay area to reach Splott and eventually the main line south side. So, it would appear that this consultation taking place now is to gather views on this eastern section from Central. No mention is made of it connecting with the western section at Central in this consultation. Goodness knows if that is still the intention? Mark Barry also mentions reaching the proposed Cardiff Parkway (near St.Mellons south). For that to happen, the tram-trains would have to go a few miles along the GWML relief lines - which are mainly used for freight trains.

Cardiff Crossrail

Cardiff Crossrail

swalesmetroprof.blog

I think that would be a cracking idea. Using existing lines where possible and expanding into areas of large population. But it's way too sensible for the Welsh government to ever actually do.

 

[Bob Price]

I think that would be a cracking idea. Using existing lines where possible and expanding into areas of large population. But it's way too sensible for the Welsh government to ever actually do.

It's not a question of sensibility but a question of cost. It would cost billions to achieve. Mark Barry has some great ideas but for an idea to become reality it requires a massive amount of time and money.

 

[Envoy]

I think that would be a cracking idea. Using existing lines where possible and expanding into areas of large population. But it's way too sensible for the Welsh government to ever actually do.

My understanding is that the Welsh Government would like to see a line going from Fairwater northwestward to Cregiau and beyond. Part of this would follow the old single track railway and then reach Cregiau via the former double track railway that ran from the valleys to Cadoxton via a tunnel under Culverhouse Cross. Much of this route is now the A4232 running south from M4 J33.

 

[John R]

I'm struggling to understand how Tremorfa and Newport Road could generate enough traffic to justify a heavy-rail solution. For anyone going to the city centre, it's a very roundabout route. It has the feel of a solution looking for a problem.

I’d agree with that in terms of flows into Cardiff.
It’s possible that Newport Road would attract traffic from Roath and Penylan heading East to Cardiff Parkway if that becomes a major employment site, and of course eastbound connections would also be available from there, which may be perceived as better than a slog into the centre by bus or driving with high parking costs.

 

[59CosG95]

Taken from LinkedIn - new portal boom up in Canton depot.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2022 ==

150270 Radyr 2-12-22

Explore D 1097 Dave H's 8342 photos on Flickr!

flic.kr

Dangly bits have started to appear at Radyr now.

Early Morning Engineers

As the sun rises above the horizon for another lovely morning in the Taff Valley, 66594 "NYK Spirit of Kyoto" with its short rake of 5 MRA wagons continues onwards to its destination of Abercynon before continuing up the line towards Merthyr to continue work around the area. Working the 6Y42...

flic.kr

There's also another shot looking SSW from the footbridge by Carnetown FC playing field - plenty masts up there now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2022 ==

And finally - shots from one of the Amey principal engineering managers showing work at Taff's Well Depot. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adam...EM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

Note the OLE Portal over the main lines in the 2nd and 5th pictures.

 

[MikePJ]

I went past Canton today (on a Penarth train, so seeing the south side of the depot) and there's now plenty of OLE structures on the sidings to the south of the shed, some with small-part steelwork. A group of orange-jacketed folks looked like they were gearing up for further works over Christmas.

 

[WesternBiker]

I went past Canton today (on a Penarth train, so seeing the south side of the depot) and there's now plenty of OLE structures on the sidings to the south of the shed, some with small-part steelwork. A group of orange-jacketed folks looked like they were gearing up for further works over Christmas.

You beat me to it: I went past on a train to Barry, and was surprised just how much steelwork is required there. I presume it’s because the curves are quite sharp?

 

[Tumbleweed]

'Pilings' work to begin on the Treherbert line over the Christmas weekend according to a letter I got today.

 

[MikePJ]

You beat me to it: I went past on a train to Barry, and was surprised just how much steelwork is required there. I presume it’s because the curves are quite sharp?

There are a lot of sidings, too!

 

[Yindee8191]

'Pilings' work to begin on the Treherbert line over the Christmas weekend according to a letter I got today.

I’d presumed those had already started! I guess they’ve been going hell-for-leather on the Aberdare line so they can achieve their promise of tram-trains by 2023.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’d presumed those had already started! I guess they’ve been going hell-for-leather on the Aberdare line so they can achieve their promise of tram-trains by 2023.

It’s looking very ambitious, not even because of the electrification progress which seems to be getting somewhere, but more because of the very slow progress of the depot that’ll house said tram-trains.

 

[CapitalStar378]

It’s looking very ambitious, not even because of the electrification progress which seems to be getting somewhere, but more because of the very slow progress of the depot that’ll house said tram-trains.

The first 398s aren't due for 6 months, I would imagine the depot should be finished by then, it's at a pretty advanced stage atm with track being laid and the depot buildings looking almost complete.

 

[MikePJ]

I passed Canton again today, and from a quick glance it appears a bit more steelwork (plus registration arms, etc) may have gone up over Christmas - is that true, or have I just misremembered what it was like before?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Its a few months old but a PWI talk and discussion about the scheme

 

[MikePJ]

Its a few months old but a PWI talk and discussion about the scheme

Very interesting, thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2023 ==

I've just found the following consultation documents with various details about the Core Valley Lines transformation programme - https://tfw.wales/projects/consultation-centre

Apologies if these have been posted already, but here's a quick summary:

• Proposal to convert the Cardiff Bay branch to line-of-sight (i.e. tramway-style) operation, and thus preventing ordinary rail rolling stock from using it
• This document contains a timetable of changes to be made during 2023 (see page 8):
  • 18th March 2023: Migration of Operations Control from WROC (Welsh Rail Operations Centre) to CVLICC (Core Valley Lines Control Centre at Taff's Well)
  • 7th April 2023: removal of southern access to Rhymney Sidings (no more run-round moves possible)
  • 29th April 2023: closure of Radyr Junction and Abercynon signal boxes
  • 3rd May 2023: signalling commissioning from Radyr to Llandaff and Radyr to Ninian Park. Migration of signallers from Radyr and Abercynon to the new control centre at Taff's Well
  • 8th May 2023: infrastructure changes to track and signalling will be commissioned from Radyr North to Merthyr Tydfil. Taff's Well depot for class 398 tram-trains will be connected to the main line.
  • 15th May 2023: infrastructure change with track and signalling alterations will be commissioned from Abercynon to Aberdare
  • 31st July 2023: A new interface will be created between the signalling control area of the CVLICC and the existing token signalling system of the Treherbert line, subject to the Design Programme date
  • 2nd June 2023: Energise the Overhead Line Electrification System (“OLE”) from Pontypridd to Waun-gron Park and Llandaff.
  • 28 June 2023: Energise the OLE from Pontypridd to Aberdare.
  • 8th August 2023: Energise the OLE from Abercynon to Merthyr Tydfil.
  • Date unspecified, but during 2023 "Platform extensions will be implemented at: Taff’s Well, Danes Court, Fairwater and Waun-gron Park stations (seven platforms in total) in addition to new platforms at Treherbert, Ynyswen, Dinas Rhondda, Aberdare, and Quakers Yard to serve the new passing loops."
  • Platform alterations will standardise vertical distance between top of rail and platform surface ("platform height") without compromising existing structure gauge - but this will facilitate level boarding for passengers as the trains will have pop-out footsteps.
  • Signalling: new signals will break up long block sections. Track circuits will be replaced with axle counters, and all signalling will be multiple aspect colour light.
  • Passing Loops: Single line track sections will be doubled with new passing loops between Pentre-Bach and Merthyr Tydfil, at Quakers Yard between Cwmbach and Aberdare, and from Ynyswen to Treherbert. Existing passing loops and double-
    track sections will be extended north of Mountain Ash, from Porth to Dinas Rhondda and north of Ystrad Rhondda to increase capacity. The existing Route Availability (“RA”) of each line will be preserved.
• There's also an updated version of the handy diagram showing all the proposed works, which I've attached.
  
• Also available from the consultations link are signalling and OLE sectioning diagrams.

 

[CardiffKid]

Really useful update, many thanks

 

[MikePJ]

One extra note - there’s little mention of works on the Rhymney and Coryton lines, and right at the end of Appendix D there’s a note saying that a similar statement of works will be prepared for these routes later (along with the Bay line and Queen St station area) as they will not be commissioned until some time in 2024. As someone suggested in an earlier post, it seems likely that the routes via Pontypridd are being prioritised for delivery in 2023. I suspect it may prove challenging to go from OLE first energised in June to an electric service by the December timetable change, but politically they’ll want to launch something in December this year, even if it’s only a couple of units working a couple of services.

 

[DaveHarries]

Another thing which I notice from the signalling diagrams is that the signal numbers are only 3 digits (eg. VA213) rather than the practice, as recently shown at Birmingham New Street and elsewhere, of 4 digits (eg. BM6604 at New Street). Another thing which isn't given, as far as I can see unless it is due in 2023 at the same time as the commissioning of the extra platforms at Treherbert, Ynyswen and Dinas Rhondda, is when the token system will be removed from the line between Porth and Treherbert.

Dave

 

[CapitalStar378]

I notice that Crwys Road station is still shown on the works diagram but this seems to have gone very quiet, has this been pushed into 2024 now along with the rest of the Rhymney line projects?

 

[MikePJ]

nother thing which isn't given, as far as I can see unless it is due in 2023 at the same time as the commissioning of the extra platforms at Treherbert, Ynyswen and Dinas Rhondda, is when the token system will be removed from the line between Porth and Treherbert.

From page 9 - “• 31 July 2023: A new interface will be created between the signalling control area of the CVLICC and the existing token signalling system of the Treherbert line, subject to the Design Programme date.” -> that, to me, implies that the Treherbert line is not being resignalled during 2023, and the existing token system will be retained. It’s not clear to me if the Treherbert line will be resignalled at a later date - does anyone know?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2023 ==

EDIT: might have answered my own question here, because I now realise there’s no date given for OLE energisation on the Treherbert route. So it seems likely that Treherbert will retain existing signalling (and diesel trains) during 2023, and get upgraded later.