Timetables for 27th December

[SLC]

I'm having a nightmare trying to plan a journey on 27th December because it's very unclear whether a TOC's timetable is confirmed (at least as "confirmed" as it can be on a strike day) or not. For example, LNER's PDF timetable shows a 11:03 from KGX to LDS but their journey planner shows it as 'not available':



Earlier today this page was showing only a provisional timetable so it must have only recently been published. Are there no tickets available because the journey planner hasn't been updated yet or because there are no seats? How can I tell?

It's a similar story with EMR – they are showing a 10:02 STP to SHF train but, according to a conversation I had with them on Twitter, the timetable won't be confirmed until tomorrow:



Again, how am I supposed to know that's subject to change?

Apologies for what seems like a bit of a rant – trying to organise travel to see family is turning into quite the headache. Not that you'd guess it from my searches above but family are in Manchester. Due to engineering works on the WCML and strike action, I think it's probably best to avoid Avanti as it involves a rail replacement bus.

I guess my main question is am I missing something in the journey planners/any other resources to identify a confirmed timetable vs an unconfirmed one. Thanks for your advice

 

[yorkie]

There is a lot of uncertainty and even trains scheduled to run may be subject to cancellation.

I would search for the actual journey you are making all the way from your local station(s) at either end, using Trainsplit.

For London to Manchester, tickets are available from under 60 quid with a change at either Nottingham or Chesterfield.

If a train is retimed or cancelled you have various rights available including either the right to a full refund (if you do not use the tickets at all) or to use alternative services.

 

[jrh2254]

There is a lot of uncertainty and even trains scheduled to run may be subject to cancellation.

I would search for the actual journey you are making all the way from your local station(s) at either end, using Trainsplit.

For London to Manchester, tickets are available from under 60 quid with a change at either Nottingham or Chesterfield.

If a train is retimed or cancelled you have various rights available including either the right to a full refund (if you do not use the tickets at all) or to use alternative services.

Thanks. Going Tutbury to Horwich Parkway on 27th. Trainsplit showing no journeys. A few days ago it was showing :
1. Tut to Stoke, then 2. Stoke to Stockport, then 3. Stockport to Manchester Oxford Road, then 4. Manchester Oxford Road to Horwich Parkway.

I then put in the individual journeys 1 through to 4 and I managed to get fares for 1/2/3 but nothing for 4.

Then I found Northern had issued the following timetable so I think I should be ok?

What are my chances!

Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks. Going Tutbury to Horwich Parkway on 27th. Trainsplit showing no journeys. A few days ago it was showing :
1. Tut to Stoke, then 2. Stoke to Stockport, then 3. Stockport to Manchester Oxford Road, then 4. Manchester Oxford Road to Horwich Parkway.

I then put in the individual journeys 1 through to 4 and I managed to get fares for 1/2/3 but nothing for 4.

Then I found Northern had issued the following timetable so I think I should be ok?

What are my chances!

Thanks.

The northbound services at Horwich Parkway are not yet in the data; once they are, you should be fine to book.

 

[m00036]

Off topic for the thread but on topic for the title... The rumour is that GWR and SWR will not start running trains until midday on 27th December. This is despite all strike action ending at 6am (although I appreciate that there will still be an overtime ban in force). I'm struggling to find any justification for such a late start to service and, whilst I can understand a need for a reduced timetable on strike days, surely there's some kind obligation to provide a minimum service on certain routes during the day when there is no strike in place. Am I missing something obvious?

 

[flitwickbeds]

Off topic for the thread but on topic for the title... The rumour is that GWR and SWR will not start running trains until midday on 27th December. This is despite all strike action ending at 6am (although I appreciate that there will still be an overtime ban in force). I'm struggling to find any justification for such a late start to service and, whilst I can understand a need for a reduced timetable on strike days, surely there's some kind obligation to provide a minimum service on certain routes during the day when there is no strike in place. Am I missing something obvious?

On strike days where the strike finished at midnight, the first trains were actually around 7am/8am. This, it has been explained, is because the night shifts start before midnight so staff weren't signing on for shifts at all, thus leaving an unstaffed gap until the first day shifts signed on (presumably around 5/6am). Could it be the same problem here where "early day shifts" are not signing on as their start time is within the strike period, so the TOCs have to wait for "late(r) day shifts" to start before anything can run?

 

[m00036]

On strike days where the strike finished at midnight, the first trains were actually around 7am/8am. This, it has been explained, is because the night shifts start before midnight so staff weren't signing on for shifts at all, thus leaving an unstaffed gap until the first day shifts signed on (presumably around 5/6am). Could it be the same problem here where "early day shifts" are not signing on as their start time is within the strike period, so the TOCs have to wait for "late(r) day shifts" to start before anything can run?

Hmm that does sound very plausible. Other operators are starting at closer to 8am/9am but presumably that could just be a difference in shift times across different TOCs?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Off topic for the thread but on topic for the title... The rumour is that GWR and SWR will not start running trains until midday on 27th December. This is despite all strike action ending at 6am (although I appreciate that there will still be an overtime ban in force). I'm struggling to find any justification for such a late start to service and, whilst I can understand a need for a reduced timetable on strike days, surely there's some kind obligation to provide a minimum service on certain routes during the day when there is no strike in place. Am I missing something obvious?

A strike means people don’t book on for shift during those times, this means no signal boxes will book on for shifts prior to 06.00. After 06.00 the shifts will book on as normal however the first shift may well book on later at say 08.00 for example depending on the local roster. Not all shifts change at 06.00.

Once the signal boxes are open however trains won’t be able to run straight away; in the same way as on the 24th services are finishing early to allow possessions to be taken and engineers trains getting to site the first thing that will happen on the 27th is those engineers trains must move away from the worksites to their depots and then the possessions can start to be lifted and lines re-energised (where appropriate), once all this is done the lines can re-open to passenger traffic.

So in a nutshell it boils down to local rosters and what engineering work is taking place over the Christmas shutdown.

 

[m00036]

Thank you both for your detailed replies.

 

[Wallsendmag]

27th has just gone back on sale at least for LNER services

 

[SLC]

27th has just gone back on sale at least for LNER services

You absolute hero – thank you!

 

[TheManOnThe172]

GWR had been saying their trains would run from midday on 27/12, but their journey planner was offering Paddington to Oxford from 0505 when I checked three days ago, from 0720 two days ago, and now from 0920. I filled in their web enquiry form to ask for definitive info on first train - and have been promised an answer within four weeks. But first train is clearly well before midday as Passenger Assistance have today checked for me and confirmed that 1050 will be running.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Thanks. Going Tutbury to Horwich Parkway on 27th. Trainsplit showing no journeys. A few days ago it was showing :
1. Tut to Stoke, then 2. Stoke to Stockport, then 3. Stockport to Manchester Oxford Road, then 4. Manchester Oxford Road to Horwich Parkway.

I then put in the individual journeys 1 through to 4 and I managed to get fares for 1/2/3 but nothing for 4.

Then I found Northern had issued the following timetable so I think I should be ok?

What are my chances!

Thanks.

A DCFC fan I’m guessing?

I’ll be joining you at Bolton away subject to EMR and Northern.

 

[Benjwri]

GWR had been saying their trains would run from midday on 27/12, but their journey planner was offering Paddington to Oxford from 0505 when I checked three days ago, from 0720 two days ago, and now from 0920. I filled in their web enquiry form to ask for definitive info on first train - and have been promised an answer within four weeks. But first train is clearly well before midday as Passenger Assistance have today checked for me and confirmed that 1050 will be running.

GWR updated journey planners for the 27th yesterday, so what you see should be what’s planned to run subject to short notice cancellations. Where did you see the 12pm time quoted, I haven’t seen this and it definitely isn’t true, unless it was referring to when they expect the full normal timetable to run.

 

[m00036]

GWR updated journey planners for the 27th yesterday, so what you see should be what’s planned to run subject to short notice cancellations. Where did you see the 12pm time quoted, I haven’t seen this and it definitely isn’t true, unless it was referring to when they expect the full normal timetable to run.

See below for a news article from a week or two ago - focuses mainly on Christmas Eve but also suggested that no GWR services would start before midday on 27th December. As you say, it's clear that isn't the case for some lines.

Travel early, book a seat and complete your journey by lunchtime on Christmas Eve | GWR News

Warning of continued disruption after the festive break with more strike dates announced

news.gwr.com

 

[jrh2254]

A DCFC fan I’m guessing?

I’ll be joining you at Bolton away subject to EMR and Northern.

That’s right ! Trains were awful on the day - just managed to get on the train Sheffield to Manchester Oxford Road - many didn’t.
Standing room only.
Late into MOR and missed the connecting train to Horwich Parkway.
Over an hour late - need to put in my delay repay.
Then on the way back many cancelled trains Manchester Oxford Road to Stockport - more delay repay !
But at least I got to the match and back again in a day !

 

[Grumpy Git]

I drove there in the end (which was a nightmare in itself), but it was a good job I did, as I’d have been stranded at MCO for and extra hour over the timetable!

 

[jrh2254]

I drove there in the end (which was a nightmare in itself), but it was a good job I did, as I’d have been stranded at MCO for and extra hour over the timetable!

In the end I walked 10 minutes to Manchester Piccadilly. The Avanti staff let me through the barriers and I caught a train to Stoke on Trent (via Stockport) and then Stoke to derby.
The Avanti staff said it was ok to use my ticket Sheffield to horwich parkway. I also had a Derbyshire wayfarer ticket.
No idea the legality of this ! Perhaps others can comment ?
All I knew was going via Sheffield and I was never going to get back at a reasonable hour !

 

[that1pepfan]

Off topic for the thread but on topic for the title... The rumour is that GWR and SWR will not start running trains until midday on 27th December. This is despite all strike action ending at 6am (although I appreciate that there will still be an overtime ban in force). I'm struggling to find any justification for such a late start to service and, whilst I can understand a need for a reduced timetable on strike days, surely there's some kind obligation to provide a minimum service on certain routes during the day when there is no strike in place. Am I missing something obvious?

GTR did that too

 

[Deerfold]

GTR did that too

Northern only seemed to run trains on electrified routes (which they don't have many of), out of Leeds, at least - and at approximately half normal frequencies for about 8 hours from 1000.