Train travel - unenjoyable

[Western 52]

It's so sad the railway has got to this state. I've made about 20 long train trips this year, with half of them disrupted in some way. Two completed by taxi, and another two where I had to turn back to avoid getting stranded. Trains are regularly late, cancelled, crowded, filthy. Not cheap either!

Total contrast to some other countries. In Israel a few weeks ago we found an excellent rail system where trains were reliable and on time, plenty of seats, very clean and pleasant.

 

[gazzaa2]

This year has been the worst I've known.

Long term Tory rule destroys public services but this is a slow death. I've had to give up on trains for work because I can't rely on them and leisure travel at the weekend is so stressful and you have to massively plan around the disruption and the overcrowding.

The government at this point would sacrifice the entire rail industry to destroy a union and to not be seen to give in to one. The RMT have not banked on how stubborn they will be. But even beyond industrial action the rail industry is in managed decline.

 

[DanNCL]

I’ve not used the train for anything more than a 15 mile local trip since October and have no plans for that to change. The UK rail industry has lost my trust. They are too expensive, too unreliable and don’t offer a good enough travelling experience for me to want to use them anymore.

It wouldn’t surprise me if in 2019 I spent in excess of £1000 per year on leisure travel by train, on top of the commute (which has also reduced in frequency). It’s £1000 per year that the railway now won’t be getting until things improve drastically. Might not sound like a lot of money to the railway but if many people who spent similar amounts to me are making the same decision it quickly adds up.

 

[John Bishop]

This year has been the worst I've known.

Long term Tory rule destroys public services but this is a slow death. I've had to give up on trains for work because I can't rely on them and leisure travel at the weekend is so stressful and you have to massively plan around the disruption and the overcrowding.

The government at this point would sacrifice the entire rail industry to destroy a union and to not be seen to give in to one. The RMT have not banked on how stubborn they will be. But even beyond industrial action the rail industry is in managed decline.

Things aren’t much better north of the border in SNP land!

 

[Western 52]

Things aren’t much better north of the border in SNP land!

Or in Wales!

 

[Parallel]

It definitely feels like there is now less incentive for TOCs to ‘do their best’ and it’s showing.

Whilst the GWR IET routes may be better than other intercity operators, their regional routes are descending into chaos. An example a couple of days ago - I wanted to take the 19:47 departure from Bristol to Frome but it was cancelled. So I waited for the 20:24 Portsmouth Harbour train which arrived about 9 minutes late due to platform congestion and was given a platform alteration after it had driven past everyone on the platform (from 11 to 12) then sat at the platform for about 20 minutes owing to no guard. Then when a guard turned up, it had been blocked in by the 20:57 Worcester Shrub Hill train on platform 11 and couldn’t depart, so everyone then got herded onto the 20:48 Weymouth service (which was given a platform alteration about 3 minutes before it was due to depart) and subsequently left full and standing.

Earlier in the day, there was mass disruption due to a points failure near the Severn Tunnel, which saw GWR start their Portsmouth service from Newport vice Cardiff but by the time customers were told this at Cardiff, there were no trains towards Newport that would reach it in time! The communication at Cardiff was very poor, nobody seemed to have a clue what was going on. Trains were just showing as ‘delayed’ and then disappearing off the board with barely any announcements. Due to the cancellation of the following GWR train to Exeter via Bristol (already not running to Penzance due to a shortage of train crew), everyone was told to get on the Paddington train and change at Bristol Parkway, but the train was running a few minutes late and the connection wasn’t held at Bristol Parkway so passengers had to wait a further 15-20 minutes for the next train towards Temple Meads.

 

[Robertj21a]

This year has been the worst I've known.

Long term Tory rule destroys public services but this is a slow death. I've had to give up on trains for work because I can't rely on them and leisure travel at the weekend is so stressful and you have to massively plan around the disruption and the overcrowding.

The government at this point would sacrifice the entire rail industry to destroy a union and to not be seen to give in to one. The RMT have not banked on how stubborn they will be. But even beyond industrial action the rail industry is in managed decline.

Nothing really to do with Tories when you think about it. Cars are far more available, and flexible, nowadays while trains can be ridiculously expensive and unreliable. Industrial action on the railways has probably been the final straw for many.

 

[gazzaa2]

Or in Wales!

Fair point, but Scotland and Wales are also hampered by a dreadful decline in cross-border services (particularly Avanti or TPE).

I used to like travelling to the North Wales coast by train but don't bother now because of the overcrowded/unreliable TFW services as well.

I've also given up going to gigs by train if it's dependent on rail travel getting home, due to unreliability on the last service trains.

 

[dosxuk]

With the current daily disruption, short notice cancellations, overcrowding when you do get on a train and risk of strike action being called, I don't know anybody who is planning to use the train for anything other than on-the-day stuff you can use a bus/taxi for.

Our plans for trips and journeys, which have always been done by train in the past, are now done by car, because we can not trust the train to get us where we want on the day we want. That's thousands of pounds that we're now spending on fuel and parking that used to go on tickets.

Train travel used to be easy and relaxing. Now it is anything but, and something to be avoided where possible.

 

[richa2002]

Absolutely. Though I'd pretty much reached this stage with the introduction of the 'ironing board' seat and continual run-down of quality on-board service/catering. I've gone from a lover of rail travel at any opportunity in the mid 2000s to "only when very necessary" in the present day. Purely down to passenger comfort and the general ambience of the railway. Aside from comfort on-board the train, there are too many announcements, signs, floor markings, telling you what to do. It feels like a modern day primary school. The recent disruption is simply the final nail in the coffin and hasn't really affected me much as I'd already pretty much stopped using the railways anyway.

It's evidently not something that I've just grown out of either as a trip to Switzerland soon restores my love. Short & concise announcements, reliable, and restaurants on all IC services. Comfort has taken a bit of a dive with the latest multiple unit stock but that can be handled when everything else is still so good.

 

[py_megapixel]

Things aren’t much better north of the border in SNP land!

Or in Wales!

No, but they're a little better. Some would argue that the major issues are because it's not devolved enough!

ScotRail and TfW staff are not on strike, but they still have to cut their services because the infrastructure is controlled by Network Rail. It's perhaps telling that TfW still manage a reasonably comprehensive service on the valley lines (which they own and manage the infrastructure for) on strike days, even when the rest of the network has all but ground to a halt.

The other thing which appears to exist in Scotland and Wales but not England is long term plans and ambitions for things like electrification and rolling stock replacement, while the English DfT seems to have no strategy at all - the only goals are short-term cuts and political signalling.

 

[irish_rail]

Welcome to Tory Britain in 2022. Or is it Soviet Russia in 1972....sometimes I'm not so sure. I agree with most of the comments on here, all the enjoyment of rail travel has been sucked out, and basically using a train is getting from A to B and praying you complete your journey. And all the while, the chauffeur driven Tory Governemnt looks down and laughs at us. They make no attempt to solve any of the problems inflicting the country, instead preferring to stoke hate through certain rag newspapers.

 

[142blue]

How long till we can vote this government out? In my view that's the only hope of it improving

 

[yorksrob]

The other thing which appears to exist in Scotland and Wales but not England is long term plans and ambitions for things like electrification and rolling stock replacement, while the English DfT seems to have no strategy at all - the only goals are short-term cuts and political signalling.

That won't change until the Downing Street squat is evicted.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm adding my voice to those who are finding rail travel less and less enjoyable. Where once I would sit back and relax making multiple change journeys, I now find myself more and more checking online resources to see if upcoming connections are viable, and when often they aren't hunting for alternatives that are valid with the tickets I'm travelling on. I even resort to back tracking through diagrams on RealtimeTrains to check that my starting journey is actually going to make it. All this just sucks some enjoyment out when I should at least be able to simply rock up on time knowing that I've a good chance of a fairly seamless journey.

I've certainly started to explore alternatives for travelling, especially to away football games where time is always critical. If we've got a game down south, do I risk it by train on the day, travel before and overnight, or do I just hang it all and travel with one of the local supporter clubs who lay a coaches. I would for the most part prefer the latter, it usually makes for a good day out. The middle option is always there, but rapidly ramps up the cost of the game. So now the latter, slower but much cheaper appeals a lot more, simply because my local supporters club have decades of experience and know how to get us to the game no matter what is happening on the roads. And judging by the seemingly increasing number of other team's supporters buses I see, its clear other fans feel the same.

Whatever people might think of football fans on trains, the vast majority are well behaved and decent, but most importantly regular long distance travellers. If the railway industry doesn't stop rattling itself apart, its going to lose a lot more of the folding stuff. And that could become crucial when future big decisions are being made. Some people will argue that "they'll be back" no matter what, I for one am not so sure because I'm finding the railways increasing inconvenient, the exact opposite of what it should be.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Having been an enthusiast for many years in rail, I must say I am losing it with this industry - in terms of patience and interest.

The day to day disruption is quite frankly awful. This will take a while for Rail to recover from, and it is sad to see.

The downward spiral is on, I can only predict severe cuts to May23 TT, with routes being cut particularly where there is duplication.

Is anyone else just thinking of throwing the towel in on rail for the time being? What used to be fun, certainly isn’t anymore. Car for travelling is certainly pushing towards the norm, and that’s from a pro-rail, enthusiast, loyal traveller since I’ve been born.

It is incredibly sad to admit, but I feel exactly the same.

I'm simply sick to the back teeth with rail travel nowadays. I'm having to rely on the coach to commute to work now because South Western Railway's operating hours seem to only suit those working in offices - and working in hospitality, the last train has already departed by the time I've clocked off.

Now, the coach isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but with every passing day I'm edging closer to just - as you say - throwing the towel in on the train and sticking to the coach, even when (if) the trains return to normal, and my commute by coach takes two hours longer each way!

In fact, I applied for a driving licence the other day, which isn't something I thought I'd ever be doing - but then I never thought that rail travel would become this frustrating.

I have been pushed to it. I have no choice.

 

[RichJF]

The local councils (county level) in my area are throwing houses up like there's a proverbial gold rush in the industry. Combine that with a complete lack of investment in the road network, zero requirement to provide more facilities & infrastructure and taking the car is no longer enjoyable either. Roads are gridlocked regularly and just as stressful as travelling by train.

 

[Huntergreed]

How long till we can vote this government out? In my view that's the only hope of it improving

By the latest, January 2025 (so up to 2 years), sadly!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It's very sad given the railways have been allowed to deteriorate in this way. I feel for a lot of the staff as many have/or are likely to be shafted under this, or any Tory government. It's a shame that there is no mechanism in place for a minimal service level (e.g. 1tph on all lines) and a penal system where this doesn't happen.

 

[contrex]

Personally, I would no more give up on the idea of railways because of their present situation than I would give up on my wife just because she became ill. Things aren't too bad here in GWR land and overall, hopefully we'll have a Labour government before too long. Anyhow I've been very fond of European railways since my first TGV ride in 1995. In terms of rail-fan-experience it's been downhill all the way since Mark 1 LHCS was no longer the norm, but time does march on.

 

[py_megapixel]

The local councils (county level) in my area are throwing houses up like there's a proverbial gold rush in the industry. Combine that with a complete lack of investment in the road network, zero requirement to provide more facilities & infrastructure and taking the car is no longer enjoyable either. Roads are gridlocked regularly and just as stressful as travelling by train.

Building more infrastructure for cars really ought to be avoided where possible, given the push to get car use down for social/environmental/health reasons.

New and existing developments need high quality walking, cycle and public transport links to a standard which will get at least traffic off the roads more than they need said roads to be expanded. And - relevant to this thread- that public transport needs to actually be both reliable and affordable for the average user!

 

[Ivor]

As someone that's been on the railway for over two decades I've given up and am starting a new career next year

Never known anything like this, it's just apologizing day after day, constant grief and anger from people, sorting trips out for families that we are now refunding due to strikes or disruption. My mental health is at a real low point where I dread work.

Up until early this year I was a CSA/Gateline agency worker for about 5 years but shifts getting cancelled due to the strikes & other issues I had to walk away as the bills keep on coming but the income doesn’t.

Back on topic though I use the trains for social & work & have done for decades but find the financial implications of fitting in work especially involving overnight hotel stops at a cost I don’t want as I can’t get back or go a day early if needs be, the disruptions are never ending it seems with engineering works across the network especially on the EC-VIC section of Southern, bus replacements, strikes etc make it totally unenjoyable & stressful beyond belief.

 

[Snow1964]

How long till we can vote this government out? In my view that's the only hope of it improving

I think there will be long term damage if continue the current short notice timetable changes and cancellations for another 25 months

I am not convinced a different government will suddenly find a magic money tree either, so hope there is a different solution sooner rather than later.

 

[spyinthesky]

I watched a little bit of carnage at Southampton Central yesterday. There were some delays arising from the aforementioned GWR Portsmouth - Cardiff but everything else was running to time. The only problem was that everything seemed to be arriving on the wrong platform and staff putting people on the Victoria bound instead of the Waterloo and vice versa only then for the mass swap over between the island platforms 2 & 3 to 4.
The flustered announcer was making the announcements from the platform and the member of staff next to him was guiding people in the opposite direction.
It really looked like it was everyone’s first day working for the railway.

 

[Techniquest]

A lot of people here that are worse off than me, clearly! I am fortunate that my commute is (currently) less than 15 minutes walk each way, and that's if I'm taking my time. The average is just over 11 minutes, and even if I wanted to use public transport for the less than 1 mile route, it would mean one bus into the city centre, a short walk off certain routes, another bus then a longer walk involving many crossings around a major roundabout. By foot, it's just two easy road crossings and a far more direct route. So those people who have to rely on buses and trains, I feel for you

I have been using buses a lot this year, sometimes because it is simply easier and/or cheaper than the railway but also because the railway to some places I've been to has been long closed. When I have been on longer journeys, especially those with family who just don't understand the complexities of the railway, I do sometimes wonder why I don't just get a driving licence and all that.

Once upon a time you'd never catch me wanting to go driving instead of taking the train, but with the way things are on the railway the scales are tipping in favour of driving even for the long journey to the Scottish Highlands. Not having to share my space with someone of dubious/suspect conditions (I'm not sure how else I can politely put that), for example, is getting seriously appealing. I don't particularly like the concept of having to be 'switched on' all the way with driving, compared to the option of sitting back and plugging in my earphones on the train, but when the railway is not reliable enough to travel on then it's getting to that point where driving is not just sensible it's practically mandatory.

It's a very sad sign of the times, but it is what it is. Something tells me it's time to get it sorted, and while I'd love to learn in an electric car I might have to put that aside and get the licence in a petrol car. I genuinely didn't ever think, in the mid 2000s, that I'd ever be in this situation! In terms of pure enjoyment, the railway has gone downhill, but I do like that it's a lot cleaner and much more accessible than it used to be.

With all of the above said, will I give up all trains? No. Even when I get the pink piece of plastic from the DVLA, there will be times when it is simply only logical to choose the train. Metro areas, London for example, would find me wanting to use the train/tram/whatever. Similar for Manchester, there's no way I'd drive into central Manchester as it's bad enough trying to navigate the place on a cycle let alone in a car, but I'd drive to somewhere convenient on Metrolink like Sale Water Park and use the trams from there. For a leisure holiday, with luggage, cycles etc, then I'd be using the pink piece of plastic to allow me onto the roads.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Well, this is a rather dispiriting thread to read.

 

[RailExplorer]

Living in London zone 4 means that I am not that badly impacted by strikes as I usually have alternatives - bus or tube. However there have now been 2 days recently that not only did the RMT strike put a stop to all SWR services and LUL services (to Richmond), but the buses were also on strike in SW London on the same day. I was left with no choice but to drive part way to London to continue my journey by tube from there.

In the summer I got stranded in Cornwall by the RMT strike as the Night Riviera was cancelled. I told my self that, that was the last UK rail holiday I would take until the strikes were sorted. I've kept to my word.

I do still use the train, particularly between London and Portsmouth for family trips (planned last minute) and day trips (again, planned last minute). But SWRs timetable is making this very difficult. My local station (St Margaret's) doesn't even have a train service now until 9th January and their timetable has been pretty poor for almost 3 years now. The car will win for most things that SWR could've offered until mid January.

Then there's Eurostar for my holidays. Once a keen user, I now either struggle to get tickets (staff rate) or I'm skeptical about using the service due to strikes. I have recently opted to fly much more although getting to UK airports has also been challenging with the strikes.

There's no winning here. The only thing I know is that once upon a time I found the train a relaxing form of travel, now it's filled with dread at what could go wrong. Outside of the UK, train travels wins hands down.

It's all really disheartening as my TOC has next to zero cancellations, no strikes and a pretty happy work force.

 

[Robertj21a]

It's very sad given the railways have been allowed to deteriorate in this way. I feel for a lot of the staff as many have/or are likely to be shafted under this, or any Tory government. It's a shame that there is no mechanism in place for a minimal service level (e.g. 1tph on all lines) and a penal system where this doesn't happen.

I think you are being over optimistic if you honestly believe that a Labour government would ever do anything much different to the current situation.
With rail travel by passengers, and freight, being such a small % of total travel movements it's simply not as important as it used to be.

 

[ChrisC]

When I was fortunate enough to be able to make the decision to retire a few years early after 35 years teaching, my plans were to spend lots of time travelling, mainly within the UK. For five years I was going away at least once a month to various uk locations, usually travelling by train, staying a few nights in a hotel, and exploring the area using regional rail rovers and similar bus tickets. With covid that all came to an end and things have not really been the same since.

Although during this year I have fully returned to my pre covid levels of stays away from home, the locations of my visits and mode of travel has changed. For various reasons I’m finding travel by rail inconvenient, tedious, unpredictable and definitely stressful. I used to find it a lovely relaxing way to travel and far superior to driving.
My holidays this year have been mainly closer to home and by car. When I say closer to home I mean within a 3-4 hour drive and not travelling from Lands End to John O Groats. Most holidays have been in rural locations which are perhaps not so accessible by train so that has been good and this may continue if the reliability of rail travel doesn’t improve. I wouldn’t drive to stay in a hotel in a large city with all its traffic and parking problems.

The main reasons for this change to going by car instead of train are as follows:

The reduction in frequency by EMR to the trains on my local line to 1tph instead of 2tph. The consequences of this are that the bus from my village to the nearest station no longer connects with the train resulting in a 45 minute wait. After waiting that 45 minutes on an unmanned station with no facilities, the existing train then misses so many connections on arrival in Nottingham resulting in another wait of up to 60 minutes. It is so inconvenient and tedious to not be boarding the main train for my journey until up to 2 hours after leaving home after only having travelled around 10 miles.

Cancellations resulting in further long waits during the journey and short formed overcrowded trains with nowhere to sit or store luggage.

Not being able to plan and book hotels ahead because of strike days. Usually by now I would at least have a few city breaks organised for January and February. I prefer city breaks rather than rural locations during winter. Having to book the last minute after strike dates have been confirmed means paying high flexible hotel prices. Last year in May, before the high prices and crowds, I had a great 2 weeks down in Plymouth using a Devon and Cornwall Rover and bus tickets. Things like that need booking early to get good hotel prices.

 

[ar10642]

The fact that we have multiple *rail enthusiasts* saying they're give up train travel and are getting driving licences should be some food for thought for the "they'll all come back" people.