Strike Impact on Railway Workers Compared to Other Strikers

[Horizon22]

You can make extra dosh as a driver at any time of the year. Where I am people are having annual leave declined and lots of rest day work is available.

That's because everyone always suddenly seems to want to try and take it in December at short notice and makes absoutely no strategic plans to use their Annual Leave across the year. Always amazes me yet it happens year in, year out.

 

[43066]

That's because everyone always suddenly seems to want to try and take it in December and makes absoutely no strategic plans to use their Annual Leave across the year. Always amazes me yet it happens year in, year out.

Ha - there’s probably a bit of that, to be fair!

Another factor, at least where I am, is that ad-hoc annual leave has been regularly declined the last few months, due to staff shortages, and they’re funny about people rolling over unless you can demonstrate you’ve tried to take it. Hence people now rushing to either use it up, or at least show it has been declined!

 

[Horizon22]

Ha - there’s probably a bit of that, to be fair!

Another factor, at least where I am, is that ad-hoc annual leave has been regularly declined the last few months, due to staff shortages, and they’re funny about people rolling over unless you can demonstrate you’ve tried to take it. Hence people now rushing to either use it up, or at least show it has been declined!

February and November are the sweet spots! It has been a bit of a rollercoaster year so I can understand a little more that the ability to take that A/L has been harder than usual, but there are still people not really planning ahead that much.

Not necessarily so much of an issue for drivers as the majority of the leave is predetermined "blocks" anyway only able to be swapped. It's those ad-hoc days that might be building up.

 

[Bald Rick]

From memory it was a lot less than their net basic salary, so they would still have ended up worse off, which I’m sure is gratifying to certain people (not aimed at yourself).

Ohyes, it was less than net basic, but not that much less.

The reason it’s tax free, AIUI, is that it effectively counts as a refund of your membership, which is paid post tax. (Even if you haven’t been a member that long).

 

[43066]

Ohyes, it was less than net basic, but not that much less.

The reason it’s tax free, AIUI, is that it effectively counts as a refund of your membership. Which is paid post tax. (Even if you haven’t been a member that long).

I suppose it also isn’t really earned income, by definition!

 

[Bald Rick]

I suppose it also isn’t really earned income, by definition!

also true, but that would just make it not liable for NI.

All income is taxable, once past the relevant allowance. But Strike ‘pay’ doesn’t count as income.

Anyway, there’s no way the unions could afford it, even at £25/ day strike pay the RMT would be coughing up £18m for the strikes announced in this dispute - they’re a wealthy union but not that wealthy.

And the TSSA would go bust very quickly!

 

[43066]

Anyway, there’s no way the unions could afford it, even at £25/ day strike pay the RMT would be coughing up £18m for the strikes announced in this dispute - they’re a wealthy union but not that wealthy.

And the TSSA would go bust very quickly!

Indeed. This is why I find proposals to make strike pay taxable distasteful and frankly spiteful; the majority of those who go on strike still lose money (I’d be staggered if there’s any union/industry where they don’t), and many unions cannot afford to pay it at all!

ASLEF certainly don’t, and I wouldn’t dream of taking it if they did.

 

[Bald Rick]

ASLEF certainly don’t and I wouldn’t dream of taking it if they did.

Yep they’d go bust fairly quickly too, albeit after TSSA.

But, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, I suspect most drivers can accommodate a few days lost earnings better than many people lower down the pay scale.

 

[12LDA28C]

I have no doubt we will be striking at some point in January.

Indeed, January 5th as announced yesterday. The day in between two two-day RMT strikes for maximum effect.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed. This is why I find proposals to make strike pay taxable distasteful and frankly spiteful;

Basically it's spiteful and vindictive and sticking up two fingers to the lower paid. As usual.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed, January 5th as announced yesterday. The day in between two two-day RMT strikes for maximum effect.

Actually rather less effect than had it been stand alone, as only about half the service was planned to run that day anyway (By TOCs in the dispute).

 

[43066]

But, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, I suspect most drivers can accommodate a few days lost earnings better than many people lower down the pay scale

Yes of course. I certainly didn’t mean to imply any criticism of those who do receive it.

Basically it's spiteful and vindictive and sticking up two fingers to the lower paid. As usual.

Making it taxable is all part of the war on the few remaining vestiges of organised labour. People struggling on £25k or less being told their pay demands are inflationary by multimillionaire politicians, who probably think they should be on minimum wage/zero hour contracts, and now want to completely prevent them having the temerity to stand up for themselves.

You couldn’t make it up, really. This sort of thing belongs in the 19th century.

 

[Goldfish62]

Making it taxable is all part of the war on the few remaining vestiges of organised labour. People struggling on £25k or less being told their pay demands are inflationary by multimillionaire politicians, who probably think they should be on minimum wage/zero hour contracts, and now want to completely prevent them having the temerity to stand up for themselves.

You couldn’t make it up, really. This sort of thing belongs in the 19th century.

I am with you totally.

 

[dk1]

Indeed, January 5th as announced yesterday. The day in between two two-day RMT strikes for maximum effect.

I thought it was announced today. Was the first I heard anyway.

 

[Mat17]

Making it taxable is all part of the war on the few remaining vestiges of organised labour. People struggling on £25k or less being told their pay demands are inflationary by multimillionaire politicians, who probably think they should be on minimum wage/zero hour contracts, and now want to completely prevent them having the temerity to stand up for themselves.

You couldn’t make it up, really. This sort of thing belongs in the 19th century.

I could not have put it better myself.

 

[Thirteen]

Actually rather less effect than had it been stand alone, as only about half the service was planned to run that day anyway (By TOCs in the dispute).

I'm surprised they didn't go for January 14th personally but that could still happen given there were no strike days from ASLEF this month.

I assume the reason Unite and Unison offer strike day is because they're both very broad in terms of the sector they represent. ASLEF, TSSA and RMT are mostly limited to transport workers.

 

[Carlisle]

You seem to have an encyclopaedic, bordering on the obsessive, knowledge of the RMT’s activities. Why is that?

I was trying to have a sensible debate given I know some who’ve already left the union as they claim they can’t afford any more wage losses, without some kinda strike pay.

 

[43066]

I was trying to have a sensible debate given I know some who’ve already left the union as they claim they can’t afford any more wage losses, without some kinda strike pay.

Really? These are people you know personally, are they?

I find it disingenuous for people who are anti union/anti strike action to feign concern over strikers losing pay. It’s just another way of attacking the unions…

Completely ignores the fact that the majority of union members have chosen to take action in the first place specifically because they can’t afford to take substantial real terms pay cuts over many years, and don’t want to be blackmailed into compromising their future job security for a below inflation rise…

 

[Tetchytyke]

I find it disingenuous for people who are anti union/anti strike action to feign concern over strikers losing pay. It’s just another way of attacking the unions…

Absolutely.

The government knows that, ultimately, it has deeper pockets than the strikers. Waiting it out until the strike collapses is clearly their strategy, and bugger the consequences for everyone else.

A grown-up government would be negotiating a settlement- despite the public rhetoric, the RMT are actually very pragmatic negotiators.

But sadly we have Thatcherism bought from wish.com.

You've got to laugh at a Prime Minister worth the thick end of a billion quid telling us that nurses and railway staff are the greedy ones.

 

[Carlisle]

Really? These are people you know personally, are they?

I find it disingenuous for people who are anti union/anti strike action to feign concern over strikers losing pay. It’s just another way of attacking the unions…

Completely ignores the fact that the majority of union members have chosen to take action in the first place specifically because they can’t afford to take substantial real terms pay cuts over many years, and don’t want to be blackmailed into compromising their future job security for a below inflation rise…

I’m not anti union, probably as surprised as you to hear that people had left as early as this

 

[Goldfish62]

I assume the reason Unite and Unison offer strike day is because they're both very broad in terms of the sector they represent.

Plus they're both incredibly wealthy unions (far more so than RMT or ASLEF) so quite rightly give some of that wealth back to members in times of need.

In respect of Unite the £70 per day they offer is very much in line if not more than striking members would get as net pay. Therefore that's why this past year they've embarked on a number of indefinite strikes which have resulted in quick wins.

 

[fishwomp]

In respect of Unite the £70 per day they offer is very much in line if not more than striking members would get as net pay. Therefore that's why this past year they've embarked on a number of indefinite strikes which have resulted in quick wins.

For both ASLEF and RMT at least half their membership will have been on strike this year.

Just 10 days of strike pay at £70 per day to half the membership would cancel out the entire membership income for the year.. and the union would still need to pay its own staff. It would be bust in no time. So, yes, the striking members pick up the tab..

Strike pay works if you have big reserves, or only a small proportion of members on strike.. able to pick the battles, not fight on all fronts..

 

[LowLevel]

I’m not anti union, probably as surprised as you to hear that people had left as early as this

It's not exactly early is it, it's been going on for 6 months.

 

[Goldfish62]

For both ASLEF and RMT at least half their membership will have been on strike this year.

Just 10 days of strike pay at £70 per day to half the membership would cancel out the entire membership income for the year.. and the union would still need to pay its own staff. It would be bust in no time. So, yes, the striking members pick up the tab..

Strike pay works if you have big reserves, or only a small proportion of members on strike.. able to pick the battles, not fight on all fronts..

Yes, quite agree. Unite has around 1.3 million members so can afford to have multiple disputes going on all over the place and it still doesn't impact finances.

 

[Carlisle]

It's not exactly early is it, it's been going on for 6 months.

Yes, but until recently not as frequently or involving overtime bans, & presently no end in sight .

 

[High Dyke]

I was trying to have a sensible debate given I know some who’ve already left the union as they claim they can’t afford any more wage losses, without some kinda strike pay.

If in the RMT, have any of those made an application to the hardship fund? If not, they need to contact their branch secretary.

 

[Carlisle]

If in the RMT, have any of those made an application to the hardship fund? If not, they need to contact their branch secretary.

Sorry I didn’t ask them that, maybe I’ll find out in time

 

[Thirteen]

Plus they're both incredibly wealthy unions (far more so than RMT or ASLEF) so quite rightly give some of that wealth back to members in times of need.

In respect of Unite the £70 per day they offer is very much in line if not more than striking members would get as net pay. Therefore that's why this past year they've embarked on a number of indefinite strikes which have resulted in quick wins.

The bus strikes by Unite have been successful although there are a few holdouts which I suspect will be resolved in the new year.

It's interesting that Sharon Graham doesn't get much if any negative media coverage compared to Mick Lynch but I would say she always come across really well in interviews.

 

[Goldfish62]

The bus strikes by Unite have been successful although there are a few holdouts which I suspect will be resolved in the new year.

It's interesting that Sharon Graham doesn't get much if any negative media coverage compared to Mick Lynch but I would say she always come across really well in interviews.

She does indeed.

I think the difference is that she doesn't involve herself in politics too much so there's less ammunition for the media to use against her.

She has criticised that old goat McClusky for being to obsessed with Westminster politics at the expense of the reason the union exists - to protect and improve its members' lot.