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Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

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Bletchleyite

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The one problem that I've noticed is that the folding table leaves are collapsing - not strong enough for people inevitably sitting or standing on them. Guess they'll get replaced in due course.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The new seats, while a bit low to the deck, really contribute to the sense of space in what is quite a small carriage. The new luggage racks are also wonderful.

The seats don't look much, but due to not being quite as bolt-upright for me they beat the Grammer IC3000 to get the accolade of "best UK Standard seat". I really do like them. Their 80x are going to make all the others (bar the Lumo ones which share that seat) look and feel terrible.

Well designed like the 175/180 seats, too, with more legroom at the sides.
 
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Jimini

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I noticed how well the new carpets are faring so far on my travels, last night…
 

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sot

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I noticed how well the new carpets are faring so far on my travels, last night…
Thought as much the other night, thought it was a one off. Not helped on the journey I made by a too quick turn around.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Ornans is the most unlikely location to find a major railway manufacturing facility, with the village a major tourist location nestling in the Loue valley in the foothills of the Jura mountains.
The factory originally belonged to Oerlikon, who supplied the electrical equipment for the Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon trains introduced on LNWR London suburban routes from 1915 onwards. Hence, Ornans traction motors have a proud heritage on Metro Cammell trains operating out of London Euston, dating back more than 100 years!
And not even rail-connected - the nearest rail facility is about 10km away, with Besançon a bit further.

Another historical link that always fascinated me was that the factory I knew as English Electric Stafford (later GEC, then Alstom) was originally the Stafford Dynamo Works and was owned by Siemens before WW1 when it was requisitioned by the government and later sold to EE.
The access road was until recently called Siemens Road.
The factory under Siemens supplied the traction equipment to the NER for its Tyneside electric network.

Like EE's Vulcan Foundry the whole site, which was a prominent landmark from the nearby WCML, has been demolished and the last owner (US GE) now has minimal presence in the town.
As a engineering site making power station equipment, it was the origin of the road transporter carrying a transformer which stalled on the North Staffs line at Hixon level crossing in 1968, causing the horrific train crash which killed 11.

And while we are looking at origins of railway equipment, many of today's new UK EMUs from CAF and Stadler are powered by traction equipment from TSA - Traktionssysteme Austria.
TSA is based at Brown-Boveri-Strasse 1 in Vienna, so you can guess the origin of the site.

The new Alstom has the challenge of integrating the old Alstom and Bombardier traction production - Bombardier used the former ABB plant at Västerås, Sweden.
Presumably the Hitachi-Alstom HS2 stock will be powered by Japanese electrics, like the 80x series.
From what I can make out, Trenitalia's Frecciarossa 1000 (today manufactured by Hitachi), and touted as the basis for the HS2 design, uses Bombardier electrics.
 

Energy

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Presumably the Hitachi-Alstom HS2 stock will be powered by Japanese electrics, like the 80x series.
The traction system is being handled by Widnes iirc. Rest of the assembly is being done by Derby and Newton Aycliffe. Not sure what is happening with body shells, Derby can bolt together aluminium sides (made externally), Newton Aycliffe is being upgraded so it can make bodyshells on site.
From what I can make out, Trenitalia's Frecciarossa 1000 (today manufactured by Hitachi), and touted as the basis for the HS2 design, uses Bombardier electrics.
Correct, originally it was made by AnsaldoBreda who you really don't want making the electrics. I'm not sure how close it is to the Frecciarossa 1000 now that its classic compatible.
 

Skie

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I've had the chance to use them a few times now (actually Avanti paid me for the privilege given each train home was > 2 hours delayed) and the new seats aren't great. They just feel too hard compared to the old ones when you're in them for 2-3 hours.

The wireless charging on the tables is very hit or miss, and a phone without a rubbery case will just slide off around Rugby as the tables have zero grip. I know magnets in them is an Apple thing, but chargers with a bit of metal in them to help locate the sweet spot is a much better idea than expecting people to scoot their phones about trying to find the perfect spot. Only to then realise the table has no power which happened on one return trip.

The new shop is crap. It has less selection and an awful layout and it's still cash only 50% of the time!

I don't mind the new lighting though. They've managed to avoid going too bright, probably thanks to how cramped the Pendos felt anyway helping to avoid a sterile and open feeling.
 

Bletchleyite

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The new shop is crap. It has less selection and an awful layout and it's still cash only 50% of the time!

It does seem a poor design. They could have made it more Voyager-sized and added extra seats/luggage space, or they could have turned it into a Eurostar style standing cafe, both of which would have been an improvement.

I don't mind the new lighting though. They've managed to avoid going too bright, probably thanks to how cramped the Pendos felt anyway helping to avoid a sterile and open feeling.

Yes, I think they've got the lighting right. It's a bit brighter but without being stark.

As I like the seats about the biggest criticism I can think of is the white headrests which will be filthy with hair grease before long. They should have used dark grey fake leather for the headrests. Easily fixed though.
 

Energy

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Yes, I think they've got the lighting right. It's a bit brighter but without being stark.
Agreed, the old interior lighting was a bit too orange.
They just feel too hard compared to the old ones when you're in them for 2-3 hours.
I quite like them, while a bit harder they were comfortable and had much better legroom than the older seats. The fabric feels better ventilated (not sure how else to describe it), the older seats always felt rather warm.

The better leg room and brighter lighting really helps in making the train feel bigger.
 

Liverpool 507

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Thought as much the other night, thought it was a one off. Not helped on the journey I made by a too quick turn around.

The brand new set I used was like that. The older one that had been about for a bit I used last weekend wasn't. So I think it's just a bad cleanup.

This also happened on the Northern sets with carpets when they were refitted (158s and 170s). Besides most new carpets in general appear like this briefly, with loose excess fibres etc.
 

507 001

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The new seats are garbage. Gave me back ache by Poulton, and I'd only come from Blackpool!
 

sot

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This also happened on the Northern sets with carpets when they were refitted (158s and 170s). Besides most new carpets in general appear like this briefly, with loose excess fibres etc.

I suppose so, doesn't then help when they aren't keeping on top of cleaning. Several units of late I've been on are in terrible states, rubbish left all around even in first and standard premium.

That being said I got on a xc after it had literally been waiting outbound running for hours, met with a cabin full of rubbish, rubbish everywhere.

I understand the onus on passengers to look after their surroundings but then when to sit down I have to dispose of rubbish from the seats and tables first. I mean it could have been cleaned in the time it had been sat there.

In the end after about 30 mins on the journey they come through and clean it when it is full of pax
 

185

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?
 

sot

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?

If true then we should see no better than 110mph operation? Could check with GPS I suppose on any refurb 390s!?
 

Energy

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?
I heavily doubt it, the 390s seem to keep to timings... I've only ridden the refurbished units from Stafford to Liverpool in which I didn't notice if it was on or off, Rugby to Milton Keynes has it quite noticable.
 

sot

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The one I used the other week definitely went full tilt (as it were) through Berkhamsted.

I think if that were true they'd be losing loads of time.

I do doubt it too, I mean on strike days but before the issues south of mkc there have been -10+ minutes early trains.

Put my mind to it actually I have been on a first or two and they definitely had tilt, either that or I had a few too many drinks!
 

Bletchleyite

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I do doubt it too, I mean on strike days but before the issues south of mkc there have been -10+ minutes early trains.

Put my mind to it actually I have been on a first or two and they definitely had tilt, either that or I had a few too many drinks!

At 110 you'd be seeing lots of delays at MKC northbound. A Pendolino at 125 can only just make the 30 minute timing with a perfect run - you get lots of minor delays. LNR I believe use 35 minutes at 110, and 350s have vastly superior acceleration compared to 390s.

I thus call this as probably not true. There would be persistent 5-6 minute delays at MKC if it was.
 

Clarence Yard

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?

None whatsoever. As they are not pocketing cost savings anymore, why would they do it? And the maintainer would have to agree to the contract variation and I can’t see them readily agreeing to a reduction.

The DfT however……….!
 

390136

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?
This is completely false
 

185

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This is completely false
Cheers.. Didn't know whether or not to take this seriously, although there was some substance to this with some of Avanti's new timings having a fair bit of padding.
 

Some guy

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Cheers.. Didn't know whether or not to take this seriously, although there was some substance to this with some of Avanti's new timings having a fair bit of padding.
The xx:30 Euston-Glasgows would never be possible at 110 it does seem it’s false especially the 1hr 44 minute dash to Warrington
 

Bletchleyite

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Cheers.. Didn't know whether or not to take this seriously, although there was some substance to this with some of Avanti's new timings having a fair bit of padding.

If you're talking about the slack Birmingham I believe it's because it has to run in the path of the proposed but not yet implemented semifast service calling at Watford, MKC and Rugby then drop back into the path of the fast.

Euston-MKC is still timed at 30 minutes, which as mentioned is very tight even at 125 - you need a perfect run to achieve it - changing that would be a giveaway.
 

Bald Rick

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Little birdie tells me, quote, "most of the 390s they've refurbished have the tilt isolated as scrounging FirstGroup don't want to pay the maintenance bill"

'Tis very believable, but any truth to this?

None whatsoever, not least that you still have to maintain the tilt kit (albeit to a lower level) even if isolated.
 
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Jamesrob637

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If you're talking about the slack Birmingham I believe it's because it has to run in the path of the proposed but not yet implemented semifast service calling at Watford, MKC and Rugby then drop back into the path of the fast.

Euston-MKC is still timed at 30 minutes, which as mentioned is very tight even at 125 - you need a perfect run to achieve it - changing that would be a giveaway.

That's an average of 100.
 

sot

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390124 definitely with tilt today.

Carpet was also in acceptable condition.
 
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