11:45 Bournemouth to Manchester on weekdays

[Mitchell Hurd]

Hi all. I hope you're ok!

Why would CrossCountry now allocate a 4-coach Voyager to this service on weekdays when 8 coaches was occasionally busy and 5 coaches overcrowded between May 2022 and this months timetable change?

I know they have a fleet of around 90 trains but surely they can try and avoid 4-coach running as much as possible except for shortforms?

 

[Oxfordblues]

20 years ago "Operation Princess" saw the replacement of hourly full-length trains with half-hourly 4- and 5-car Voyagers. We now have hourly Voyagers, sometimes just 4-cars. Such is progress!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

20 years ago "Operation Princess" saw the replacement of hourly full-length trains with half-hourly 4- and 5-car Voyagers. We now have hourly Voyagers, sometimes just 4-cars. Such is progress!

I mean this is December 2022 and we're almost in January 2023. It's bad enough if we were still in that era but this??? Crazy!

 

[OrangeJuice]

20 years ago "Operation Princess" saw the replacement of hourly full-length trains with half-hourly 4- and 5-car Voyagers. We now have hourly Voyagers, sometimes just 4-cars. Such is progress!

Well it's gone backwards as it's 2 hourly and mostly double sets but not quite fully as the first post points out the 1215 from Southampton is consistently a single set

 

[JonathanH]

Why would CrossCountry now allocate a 4-coach Voyager to this service on weekdays when 8 coaches was occasionally busy and 5 coaches overcrowded between May 2022 and this months timetable change?

Presumably the rest of its schedule isn't deemed worthy of a double unit or a 5-car set - it is the 0511 from Manchester Piccadilly which passes through Birmingham New Street at about 0700, so that doesn't strike me as needing lots of capacity. It is at Winchester at 0930. Then on the way back it is in Manchester at 1629 and works the 1703 to Bristol Temple Meads, at which point the service is half-hourly between Manchester and Birmingham.

There aren't enough Voyagers to double up all workings on the current timetable and I suspect there are also some issues about how many units can be overnight at each depot.

 

[Starmill]

I mean this is December 2022 and we're almost in January 2023. It's bad enough if we were still in that era but this??? Crazy!

There will be more four and five car Voyager services in the future if a small number of Reading - Sheffield / York services return.

As long as everyone can physically fit onto the train, an overcrowded train is more "efficient" than a quiet one.

 

[MCSHF007]

I'd be more concerned about the rancid Duff on one end than that!

+ 1

Presumably the rest of its schedule isn't deemed worthy of a double unit or a 5-car set - it is the 0511 from Manchester Piccadilly which passes through Birmingham New Street at about 0700, so that doesn't strike me as needing lots of capacity. It is at Winchester at 0930. Then on the way back it is in Manchester at 1629 and works the 1703 to Bristol Temple Meads, at which point the service is half-hourly between Manchester and Birmingham.

There aren't enough Voyagers to double up all workings on the current timetable and I suspect there are also some issues about how many units can be overnight at each depot.

There's significant numbers of XC services (including the core NE/SW route) that are routinely inappropriately formed of 4 or 5 coach Voyagers. What's unique about this one?

 

[JonathanH]

There's significant numbers of XC services (including the core NE/SW route) that are routinely inappropriately formed of 4 or 5 coach Voyagers. What's unique about this one?

Indeed, that was the question of the OP. Nothing, it would seem. Just that some services have to be single Voyagers because that is what is available.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Indeed, that was the question of the OP. Nothing, it would seem. Just that some services have to be single Voyagers because that is what is available.

The point is if a service is reported full and standing enough times you don't reduce capacity from 5 to 4 coaches which is what CrossCountry have done.

 

[43055]

Presumably the rest of its schedule isn't deemed worthy of a double unit or a 5-car set - it is the 0511 from Manchester Piccadilly which passes through Birmingham New Street at about 0700, so that doesn't strike me as needing lots of capacity. It is at Winchester at 0930. Then on the way back it is in Manchester at 1629 and works the 1703 to Bristol Temple Meads, at which point the service is half-hourly between Manchester and Birmingham.

There aren't enough Voyagers to double up all workings on the current timetable and I suspect there are also some issues about how many units can be overnight at each depot.

This is probably the reason this one is a single set as I don't think i have ever seen a double set on the Manchester - Bristol and Newcastle - Reading services.

 

[cactustwirly]

The point is if a service is reported full and standing enough times you don't reduce capacity from 5 to 4 coaches which is what CrossCountry have done.

It's exactly what all the TOCs have done.
Large parts of southern are 5 and 8 coaches instead of 8 and 12 coaches.

 

[JonathanH]

The point is if a service is reported full and standing enough times you don't reduce capacity from 5 to 4 coaches which is what CrossCountry have done.

What if another diagram has more need for the 5-car unit?

 

[nw1]

There will be more four and five car Voyager services in the future if a small number of Reading - Sheffield / York services return.

As long as everyone can physically fit onto the train, an overcrowded train is more "efficient" than a quiet one.

And that is the problem if you apply this type of economics to public services. Pack in the passengers, and never mind the requirement to provide a comfortable journey because they're a captive market and they'll still come back.

As for the diagram, I'd have thought a 1703 out of Manchester would need at least a 5-car set, being prime peak time.

 

[Starmill]

And that is the problem if you apply this type of economics to public services. Pack in the passengers, and never mind the requirement to provide a comfortable journey because they're a captive market and they'll still come back.

As for the diagram, I'd have thought a 1703 out of Manchester would need at least a 5-car set, being prime peak time.

I agree with you - it's no way to run a railway, and it's no way to run the country! Unfortunately the people in charge don't agree, and the majority of the rest of us don't seem to be in favour of paying kind of tax rates necccesary for these things to run properly.

The solution to this is to lobby the government, or perhaps more usefully ask your MP to lobby the government, to permit CrossCountry to take on leases for the the ex-Avanti West Coast units. This will be a tall order however.

 

[nw1]

I agree with you - it's no way to run a railway, and it's no way to run the country! Unfortunately the people in charge don't agree, and the majority of the rest of us don't seem to be in favour of paying kind of tax rates necccesary to fo these things properly.

The solution to this is to lobby the government, or perhaps more usefully ask your MP to lobby the government, to permit CrossCountry to take on leases for the the ex-Avanti West Coast units. This will be a tall order however.

Sadly this is probably the case. In some continental countries, where there is enough capacity, I guess people are more willing to pay the taxes?

It's certainly bad that there appears to be some spare stock lying around unused (mostly diesel AFAIK, on the "Southern Region" there appears to be a stock shortage). For example, have the Meridians left MML yet? I thought they had but I am not 100% sure.

 

[Starmill]

Sadly this is probably the case. In some continental countries, where there is enough capacity, I guess people are more willing to pay the taxes?

It's certainly bad that there appears to be some spare stock lying around unused (mostly diesel AFAIK, on the "Southern Region" there appears to be a stock shortage). For example, have the Meridians left MML yet? I thought they had but I am not 100% sure.

There are Voyagers available currently but no Meridians.

 

[Wychwood93]

And that is the problem if you apply this type of economics to public services. Pack in the passengers, and never mind the requirement to provide a comfortable journey because they're a captive market and they'll still come back.

As for the diagram, I'd have thought a 1703 out of Manchester would need at least a 5-car set, being prime peak time.

It was a 5-car today - 221130.